Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Phil Marino and crank seal

[David Edgar]

Phil and Mike use the exact same seal and both have the crank welded up
and ground where the slinger is (was). The difference is Mike had a jig
made up and if you ship him your bearing cap and the aluminum piece to him
he cuts them to accept the small block chevy seal. Nice set up. Mike and
Phil do not like the Moss set up as the the seal rubs on the larger
diameter flange at a higher surface speed. Phil puts the seal on exactly
where Mike does but bolts the cap to the block along with the aluminum
piece and machines it. Great if you are only doing one and you can get
the block to the machine shop (or into your own garage when you have your
own milling machine like Phil). Ship the cap and aluminum piece to Mike
and get it back in a week. Take the crank to your local crank repair to
have welded and ground. Have the shop dial indicate the rear flange when
done and dress it up if out of true. The welding may distort the flange
slightly but dressing it true by taking a couple thou off solves the
problem.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bob and Carolyn Grunau wrote:

> Hi Dave,
> How does the Goodman seal differ ? Is it a Moss type?
> I am going to rebuild my TC engine soon and was leaning toward the Chevy
> seal. But would like to know what else is out there.
> Thanks for any info.
> Regards from Canada, Bob Grunau
>
> ----------
> > From: David Edgar
> > To: Roger Furneaux
> > Cc: T-ABCs
> > Subject: [mg-tabc] Phil Marino
> > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 8:52 PM
> >
> > Just saw Phil Marino at the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night. Still
> > moving a little slow but very active in the mind. He was showing off his
> > conversion to a small block chevy rear crank seal. Mike Goodman was
> there
> > also with his conversion idea and the two of them went on and on
> > about which was the best way to go. Both looked good by the way. Phil
> > still takes a cane with him but frequently forgets it when venturing away
> > from his chair.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
> > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Andy Bradley]

Just to set the record straight. I beleive that it was I, with the help of Don and Wayne at Don's Speed Shop in San
Diego, that designed the Chevy rear oil seal conversion back in 1989. The drawings have been posted for a couple of
years on the t-abc website. I have never tried to make any money off the thing, other that including it in engine jobs
that I have done. But I would just like to see the credit go where it is due.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled mailing list.

--
Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

[Skip Kelsey]

Andy:

Good on ya mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Skip...................

At 09:53 AM 3/30/00 -0800, Andy Bradley wrote:

>Just to set the record straight. I beleive that it was I, with the help

of Don and Wayne at Don's Speed Shop in San

>Diego, that designed the Chevy rear oil seal conversion back in 1989. The

drawings have been posted for a couple of

>years on the t-abc website. I have never tried to make any money off the

thing, other that including it in engine jobs

>that I have done. But I would just like to see the credit go where it is

due.

>
>And now, back to your regularly scheduled mailing list.
>
>--
>Cheers....Andy B.
>Bradley Restoration
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Harry Pyle]

Hi everyone,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the rear seal on the LARGER
diameter flange...as long as you use the correct material seal.. ie the
viton ones which are made for high surface speed/heat contact.
The original designer of the rear seal was Bob Schapel ,TC owner
'extraordinaire' from South Australia in approximately 1983. He always used
a standard VOLVO crankshaft seal. I have had this set up in my TC since
1988..did Around Australia that year in 28 days..my only car for every day
use..then drove it around the world in 7 months in 1993 (with new Volvo
seal)..still using it daily for work as it is my only licenced car..I still
have a dry clutch and no oil drips from the 'split pin'.
Its interesting that immediately after my visit to California with the TC,
and showing and explaining the rear seal modification (with sketches) and
also the Bob Schapel rear axle/wheel seal modification to anyone who was
interested..Al Moss, Phil Marino,Chris Nowland etc included there appeared
on the market exact replicas almost immediately with never any credit to the
original designer Bob Schapel.. Phils rear wheel kit was very well done ,
and so was the Moss crankshaft kit but they simply used the wrong
material/seal.
I have recently done a similar (1 off) conversion to a "hot' 1938 VA engine
and am using a 5" diameter seal out of a truck crankshaft kit..its red viton
material and made for the job. If the seal runs on a large diameter/hot
surface the material must be suitable as in factory crankshaft seals on
modern cars. The material is usually red or brown as opposed to the standard
black seals.
Regards
Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: David Edgar
To: Bob and Carolyn Grunau
Cc: T-ABC's Forever
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 3:22 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Phil Marino and crank seal


> Phil and Mike use the exact same seal and both have the crank welded up
> and ground where the slinger is (was). The difference is Mike had a jig
> made up and if you ship him your bearing cap and the aluminum piece to him
> he cuts them to accept the small block chevy seal. Nice set up. Mike and
> Phil do not like the Moss set up as the the seal rubs on the larger
> diameter flange at a higher surface speed. Phil puts the seal on exactly
> where Mike does but bolts the cap to the block along with the aluminum
> piece and machines it. Great if you are only doing one and you can get
> the block to the machine shop (or into your own garage when you have your
> own milling machine like Phil). Ship the cap and aluminum piece to Mike
> and get it back in a week. Take the crank to your local crank repair to
> have welded and ground. Have the shop dial indicate the rear flange when
> done and dress it up if out of true. The welding may distort the flange
> slightly but dressing it true by taking a couple thou off solves the
> problem.
>
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bob and Carolyn Grunau wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> > How does the Goodman seal differ ? Is it a Moss type?
> > I am going to rebuild my TC engine soon and was leaning toward the Chevy
> > seal. But would like to know what else is out there.
> > Thanks for any info.
> > Regards from Canada, Bob Grunau
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: David Edgar
> > > To: Roger Furneaux
> > > Cc: T-ABCs
> > > Subject: [mg-tabc] Phil Marino
> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 8:52 PM
> > >
> > > Just saw Phil Marino at the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night.
Still
> > > moving a little slow but very active in the mind. He was showing off
his
> > > conversion to a small block chevy rear crank seal. Mike Goodman was
> > there
> > > also with his conversion idea and the two of them went on and on
> > > about which was the best way to go. Both looked good by the way.
Phil
> > > still takes a cane with him but frequently forgets it when venturing
away
> > > from his chair.
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
> > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>

[Skip Kelsey]

Harry:

I heartly concour with your assesment of the seal problem. When I received
the seal information while in Australia a few years ago, I contacted Al
Moss and the folks at Moss. I even sent them the information that the
"Nitrile" rubber seal would not stand up to the rpms of the crank flange.
They all ignored the warnings even with proof. So, why is it some people
wont listen. I understand that they could not find a seal of the proper
diameter, and so went with the only one available, be it wrong or not.

Good on ya Harry:


Skip Kelsey...................................

At 01:00 PM 4/2/00 +0800, Harry Pyle wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the rear seal on the LARGER
>diameter flange...as long as you use the correct material seal.. ie the
>viton ones which are made for high surface speed/heat contact.
>The original designer of the rear seal was Bob Schapel ,TC owner
>'extraordinaire' from South Australia in approximately 1983. He always used
>a standard VOLVO crankshaft seal. I have had this set up in my TC since
>1988..did Around Australia that year in 28 days..my only car for every day
>use..then drove it around the world in 7 months in 1993 (with new Volvo
>seal)..still using it daily for work as it is my only licenced car..I still
>have a dry clutch and no oil drips from the 'split pin'.
>Its interesting that immediately after my visit to California with the TC,
>and showing and explaining the rear seal modification (with sketches) and
>also the Bob Schapel rear axle/wheel seal modification to anyone who was
>interested..Al Moss, Phil Marino,Chris Nowland etc included there appeared
>on the market exact replicas almost immediately with never any credit to the
>original designer Bob Schapel.. Phils rear wheel kit was very well done ,
>and so was the Moss crankshaft kit but they simply used the wrong
>material/seal.
>I have recently done a similar (1 off) conversion to a "hot' 1938 VA engine
>and am using a 5" diameter seal out of a truck crankshaft kit..its red viton
>material and made for the job. If the seal runs on a large diameter/hot
>surface the material must be suitable as in factory crankshaft seals on
>modern cars. The material is usually red or brown as opposed to the standard
>black seals.
>Regards
>Harry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Edgar
>To: Bob and Carolyn Grunau
>Cc: T-ABC's Forever
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 3:22 PM
>Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Phil Marino and crank seal
>
>
>> Phil and Mike use the exact same seal and both have the crank welded up
>> and ground where the slinger is (was). The difference is Mike had a jig
>> made up and if you ship him your bearing cap and the aluminum piece to him
>> he cuts them to accept the small block chevy seal. Nice set up. Mike and
>> Phil do not like the Moss set up as the the seal rubs on the larger
>> diameter flange at a higher surface speed. Phil puts the seal on exactly
>> where Mike does but bolts the cap to the block along with the aluminum
>> piece and machines it. Great if you are only doing one and you can get
>> the block to the machine shop (or into your own garage when you have your
>> own milling machine like Phil). Ship the cap and aluminum piece to Mike
>> and get it back in a week. Take the crank to your local crank repair to
>> have welded and ground. Have the shop dial indicate the rear flange when
>> done and dress it up if out of true. The welding may distort the flange
>> slightly but dressing it true by taking a couple thou off solves the
>> problem.
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bob and Carolyn Grunau wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Dave,
>> > How does the Goodman seal differ ? Is it a Moss type?
>> > I am going to rebuild my TC engine soon and was leaning toward the Chevy
>> > seal. But would like to know what else is out there.
>> > Thanks for any info.
>> > Regards from Canada, Bob Grunau
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > > From: David Edgar
>> > > To: Roger Furneaux
>> > > Cc: T-ABCs
>> > > Subject: [mg-tabc] Phil Marino
>> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 8:52 PM
>> > >
>> > > Just saw Phil Marino at the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night.
>Still
>> > > moving a little slow but very active in the mind. He was showing off
>his
>> > > conversion to a small block chevy rear crank seal. Mike Goodman was
>> > there
>> > > also with his conversion idea and the two of them went on and on
>> > > about which was the best way to go. Both looked good by the way.
>Phil
>> > > still takes a cane with him but frequently forgets it when venturing
>away
>> > > from his chair.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
>> > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
>> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>-- Check out your group's private Chat room
>-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=mg-tabc&m=1
>
>
>
>

[Harry Pyle]

Thanks for your support Skip..we can always rely on you.
I well remeber your concern when the Moss kit first came out.
You made several phone calls to me in Australia about it. We both warned
them as did Brian Darke from "Maintaining the Breed" ..he was an Oz Moss
agent at that time..an Engineer..and also very concerned about the product..
Surely it has been rectified by now..lets hope so.
Regards
Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Kelsey
To: Harry Pyle ; David Edgar
; Bob and Carolyn Grunau
Cc: T-ABC's Forever
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Phil Marino and crank seal


> Harry:
>
> I heartly concour with your assesment of the seal problem. When I received
> the seal information while in Australia a few years ago, I contacted Al
> Moss and the folks at Moss. I even sent them the information that the
> "Nitrile" rubber seal would not stand up to the rpms of the crank flange.
> They all ignored the warnings even with proof. So, why is it some people
> wont listen. I understand that they could not find a seal of the proper
> diameter, and so went with the only one available, be it wrong or not.
>
> Good on ya Harry:
>
>
> Skip Kelsey...................................
>
> At 01:00 PM 4/2/00 +0800, Harry Pyle wrote:
> >Hi everyone,
> >There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the rear seal on the
LARGER
> >diameter flange...as long as you use the correct material seal.. ie the
> >viton ones which are made for high surface speed/heat contact.
> >The original designer of the rear seal was Bob Schapel ,TC owner
> >'extraordinaire' from South Australia in approximately 1983. He always
used
> >a standard VOLVO crankshaft seal. I have had this set up in my TC since
> >1988..did Around Australia that year in 28 days..my only car for every
day
> >use..then drove it around the world in 7 months in 1993 (with new Volvo
> >seal)..still using it daily for work as it is my only licenced car..I
still
> >have a dry clutch and no oil drips from the 'split pin'.
> >Its interesting that immediately after my visit to California with the
TC,
> >and showing and explaining the rear seal modification (with sketches) and
> >also the Bob Schapel rear axle/wheel seal modification to anyone who was
> >interested..Al Moss, Phil Marino,Chris Nowland etc included there
appeared
> >on the market exact replicas almost immediately with never any credit to
the
> >original designer Bob Schapel.. Phils rear wheel kit was very well done ,
> >and so was the Moss crankshaft kit but they simply used the wrong
> >material/seal.
> >I have recently done a similar (1 off) conversion to a "hot' 1938 VA
engine
> >and am using a 5" diameter seal out of a truck crankshaft kit..its red
viton
> >material and made for the job. If the seal runs on a large diameter/hot
> >surface the material must be suitable as in factory crankshaft seals on
> >modern cars. The material is usually red or brown as opposed to the
standard
> >black seals.
> >Regards
> >Harry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: David Edgar
> >To: Bob and Carolyn Grunau
> >Cc: T-ABC's Forever
> >Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 3:22 PM
> >Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Phil Marino and crank seal
> >
> >
> >> Phil and Mike use the exact same seal and both have the crank welded up
> >> and ground where the slinger is (was). The difference is Mike had a
jig
> >> made up and if you ship him your bearing cap and the aluminum piece to
him
> >> he cuts them to accept the small block chevy seal. Nice set up. Mike
and
> >> Phil do not like the Moss set up as the the seal rubs on the larger
> >> diameter flange at a higher surface speed. Phil puts the seal on
exactly
> >> where Mike does but bolts the cap to the block along with the aluminum
> >> piece and machines it. Great if you are only doing one and you can get
> >> the block to the machine shop (or into your own garage when you have
your
> >> own milling machine like Phil). Ship the cap and aluminum piece to
Mike
> >> and get it back in a week. Take the crank to your local crank repair
to
> >> have welded and ground. Have the shop dial indicate the rear flange
when
> >> done and dress it up if out of true. The welding may distort the
flange
> >> slightly but dressing it true by taking a couple thou off solves the
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Bob and Carolyn Grunau wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Dave,
> >> > How does the Goodman seal differ ? Is it a Moss type?
> >> > I am going to rebuild my TC engine soon and was leaning toward the
Chevy
> >> > seal. But would like to know what else is out there.
> >> > Thanks for any info.
> >> > Regards from Canada, Bob Grunau
> >> >
> >> > ----------
> >> > > From: David Edgar
> >> > > To: Roger Furneaux
> >> > > Cc: T-ABCs
> >> > > Subject: [mg-tabc] Phil Marino
> >> > > Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 8:52 PM
> >> > >
> >> > > Just saw Phil Marino at the TC Motoring Guild meeting last night.
> >Still
> >> > > moving a little slow but very active in the mind. He was showing
off
> >his
> >> > > conversion to a small block chevy rear crank seal. Mike Goodman
was
> >> > there
> >> > > also with his conversion idea and the two of them went on and on
> >> > > about which was the best way to go. Both looked good by the way.
> >Phil
> >> > > still takes a cane with him but frequently forgets it when
venturing
> >away
> >> > > from his chair.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
> >> > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
> >> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-- Check out your group's private Chat room
> >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=mg-tabc&m=1
> >
> >
> >
> >
>