80 MPH ?

[SANDY SANDERS]

Could it be that Julian has the alphabet mixed up. Possibly it should have read KPH. The again it could have been that the car was a European delivery with speedo in KPH. I had a TF that way. Sandy

----- Original Message ----- From: FDShade@aol.comFDShade@aol.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.commg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? In a message dated 5/13/2005 8:00:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, julian_evers@talk21.comjulian_evers@talk21.com> writes: I regularly drive at over 80 mph on normal roads. Not with an unmodified xpag I suspect !? Jim Shade, West Covina CA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick Waters]

Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a 4.625 gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1 1/4 inch carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air cleaner. The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter rear pipe. I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the aerodynamics. I am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but have no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle with SUs, they must be tuned! I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you know. -Rick Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com> wrote: Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs, Vertex magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I have even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of the Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the NJ Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the other competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a tow. So I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with two up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know if the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half the distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did make it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back then, these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I don't think I would care to try that stunt ever again . Frank Graham [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links -Rick Waters --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Donald Wilkinson]

RE: "I regularly drive at over 80 mph on normal roads." "Not with an unmodified xpag I suspect !? Jim Shade, West Covina CA" or stock punkin? yeh, digitaldon wondered about that, also. Don TC 7993 Grand Island NY USA

[Peter Ross]

Hi Rick, Lowering the axle ratio to get the cruising RPM down is working against top speed. Bob's dead right, you are not developing enough horsepower to drive the car any faster against the wind loading. Your larger capacity and staying on small valves and carbs may give you great low-end torque, but it probably isn't increasing the high end power output. Somewhere I've seen an aerodynamic graph for a TC of wind load vs speed and it looks like a brick wall. In our racing TCs, the goal is to increase the power to overcome the wind load which (without a supercharger) means improving the breathing (bigger carbs, bigger valves, extractor exhaust etc) and getting a better charge into the cylinders with a full-race, high overlap cam and all this happens at a much higher rpm. The ideal is to gear the car so that we can just pull peak-power revs in top gear. Last season I fitted a pair of EGT gauges (exhaust gas temperature) in number 1 and number 4 exhaust header pipes. This gave me a very good monitor of how the mixture was at different rpm under full throttle. I knew, on the needles I was running, that they were perfect at 6000, but rich at 4000. On another set of needles, I would find it OK at 4000 but a bit lean (bad) at 6000. Now the next stage is to go to the interactive SU needle web site and put in a few required station diameters and search for a needle that matches. Then call Joe Curto to see if they are available. Some have the luxury ($$$) of doing this on a dyno, but as Bob says, it's tuning whichever way you do it. BTW, our average speed around Mosport or Watkins Glen is in the mid 70s mph and at Mosport that includes one second gear turn and a long steep uphill. But no bragging! Cheers, Peter Ross TC 8892 Bolton, Massachusetts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Waters" rwmgtc@yahoo.ca> To: "Frank Graham" frankgraham@msn.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a 4.625 gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. > > The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1 1/4 inch carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air cleaner. The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter rear pipe. > > I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the aerodynamics. I am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but have no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle with SUs, they must be tuned! > > I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you know. > > -Rick > > Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com> wrote: > Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! > > Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs, Vertex magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I have even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of the Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the NJ Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the other competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a tow. So I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with two up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know if the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half the distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did make it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back then, these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I don't think I would care to try that > stunt ever again . > > Frank Graham > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Skip Kelsey]

Peter: I have a well stage tuned engine, and I have found that EL needles in 1 1/2 " carbs are the best. Especially if you are close to sea level as I am. I got a concurrence from Jerry Brown in UK. Cheers; Skip Kelsey.............................................................. At 11:58 PM 5/13/2005 -0400, Peter Ross wrote:

>Hi Rick, > >Lowering the axle ratio to get the cruising RPM down is working against top >speed. Bob's dead right, you are not developing enough horsepower to drive >the car any faster against the wind loading. Your larger capacity and >staying on small valves and carbs may give you great low-end torque, but it >probably isn't increasing the high end power output. > >Somewhere I've seen an aerodynamic graph for a TC of wind load vs speed and >it looks like a brick wall. > >In our racing TCs, the goal is to increase the power to overcome the wind >load which (without a supercharger) means improving the breathing (bigger >carbs, bigger valves, extractor exhaust etc) and getting a better charge >into the cylinders with a full-race, high overlap cam and all this happens >at a much higher rpm. The ideal is to gear the car so that we can just pull >peak-power revs in top gear. > >Last season I fitted a pair of EGT gauges (exhaust gas temperature) in >number 1 and number 4 exhaust header pipes. This gave me a very good >monitor of how the mixture was at different rpm under full throttle. I >knew, on the needles I was running, that they were perfect at 6000, but rich >at 4000. On another set of needles, I would find it OK at 4000 but a bit >lean (bad) at 6000. Now the next stage is to go to the interactive SU >needle web site and put in a few required station diameters and search for a >needle that matches. Then call Joe Curto to see if they are available. Some >have the luxury ($$$) of doing this on a dyno, but as Bob says, it's tuning >whichever way you do it. > >BTW, our average speed around Mosport or Watkins Glen is in the mid 70s mph >and at Mosport that includes one second gear turn and a long steep uphill. >But no bragging! > >Cheers, >Peter Ross >TC 8892 >Bolton, Massachusetts > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Waters" rwmgtc@yahoo.ca> >To: "Frank Graham" frankgraham@msn.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:06 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > > > > Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a 4.625 >gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. > > > > The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1 1/4 inch >carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air cleaner. >The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter rear >pipe. > > > > I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob >Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the aerodynamics. I >am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but have >no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle with >SUs, they must be tuned! > > > > I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you know. > > > > -Rick > > > > Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com> wrote: > > Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! > > > > Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs, Vertex >magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I have >even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of the >Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the NJ >Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the other >competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a tow. So >I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the >reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with two >up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know if >the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half the >distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did make >it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back then, >these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I don't >think I would care to try that > > stunt ever again . > > > > Frank Graham > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

[ROSS TAYLOR]

G'day On my way down to Newcastle for the Hunter Region "Euro day "I had the old beast on 80 MPH on the Karuah by pass with my friend in the co drivers seat looking for the non existing grab handle.and me with skid marks on my undies, Ross in Tea Gardens

>The Road & Track road test chart from the 1950's issue shows the speed >chart, and 80mph can occur at 5520 rpm which is achievable in stock trim, >however at my age and the cars age it's too scary. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf >Of LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:11 PM >To: FDShade@aol.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > > >80KM sounds correct- Or downhill racing from Mt Washington with a drag >chute-Thom > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[1939mgtb]

There I was.....spinning inverted, loaded with ice, with one turning and the other burning. Was I worried? Nah...I was lookin' for higher..... Best, Ray "Morology is our profession, our ONLY profession!"

----- Original Message ----- From: "ROSS TAYLOR" rossmvt@msn.com> To: jwp_mgtc@chartermi.net>; LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com>; FDShade@aol.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:16 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > G'day > On my way down to Newcastle for the Hunter Region "Euro day "I had the old > beast on 80 MPH on the Karuah by pass with my friend in the co drivers > seat > looking for the non existing grab handle.and me with skid marks on my > undies, > Ross in Tea Gardens > >>The Road & Track road test chart from the 1950's issue shows the speed >>chart, and 80mph can occur at 5520 rpm which is achievable in stock trim, >>however at my age and the cars age it's too scary. >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf >>Of LuckyFloridaLin@aol.com >>Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:11 PM >>To: FDShade@aol.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >>Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? >> >> >>80KM sounds correct- Or downhill racing from Mt Washington with a drag >>chute-Thom >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Rick Waters]

All very interesting and pointing me in the right direction. Is there any one on the list that has knowledge of a good running 1466 cc engine with 1 and one quarter inch carbs? If so, what needles work for this combination? I want to make sure no one thinks I am complaining. The increased capacity made a huge difference in how the car drove, and so did the change to the taller rear gears. I really enjoy the car. Old published road tests indicate that a 1466 TF, (with 1 and one-half inch carbs and larger valves) will go about 85mph. I was hoping to match that, but the car just won't pull (due to lack of breathing capacity, I suspect) over 4800 rpm. I guess the next step would be to go to the larger carbs, followed by an extractor exhaust system, but since I don't intend to drive over about 70 mph, It would just be wasted money. Anyone who's seen my car knows that it cries out for new paint and upholstery, so that's where I'm going. Thanks for all the advice on this. If advancing the ignition timing makes a significant difference, I'll post the results. -Rick TC 7881 Skip Kelsey kelsey@amerion.com> wrote: Peter: I have a well stage tuned engine, and I have found that EL needles in 1 1/2 " carbs are the best. Especially if you are close to sea level as I am. I got a concurrence from Jerry Brown in UK. Cheers; Skip Kelsey.............................................................. At 11:58 PM 5/13/2005 -0400, Peter Ross wrote:

>Hi Rick, > >Lowering the axle ratio to get the cruising RPM down is working against top >speed. Bob's dead right, you are not developing enough horsepower to drive >the car any faster against the wind loading. Your larger capacity and >staying on small valves and carbs may give you great low-end torque, but it >probably isn't increasing the high end power output. > >Somewhere I've seen an aerodynamic graph for a TC of wind load vs speed and >it looks like a brick wall. > >In our racing TCs, the goal is to increase the power to overcome the wind >load which (without a supercharger) means improving the breathing (bigger >carbs, bigger valves, extractor exhaust etc) and getting a better charge >into the cylinders with a full-race, high overlap cam and all this happens >at a much higher rpm. The ideal is to gear the car so that we can just pull >peak-power revs in top gear. > >Last season I fitted a pair of EGT gauges (exhaust gas temperature) in >number 1 and number 4 exhaust header pipes. This gave me a very good >monitor of how the mixture was at different rpm under full throttle. I >knew, on the needles I was running, that they were perfect at 6000, but rich >at 4000. On another set of needles, I would find it OK at 4000 but a bit >lean (bad) at 6000. Now the next stage is to go to the interactive SU >needle web site and put in a few required station diameters and search for a >needle that matches. Then call Joe Curto to see if they are available. Some >have the luxury ($$$) of doing this on a dyno, but as Bob says, it's tuning >whichever way you do it. > >BTW, our average speed around Mosport or Watkins Glen is in the mid 70s mph >and at Mosport that includes one second gear turn and a long steep uphill. >But no bragging! > >Cheers, >Peter Ross >TC 8892 >Bolton, Massachusetts > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Waters" >To: "Frank Graham" ; >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:06 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > > > > Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a 4.625 >gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. > > > > The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1 1/4 inch >carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air cleaner. >The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter rear >pipe. > > > > I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob >Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the aerodynamics. I >am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but have >no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle with >SUs, they must be tuned! > > > > I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you know. > > > > -Rick > > > > Frank Graham wrote: > > Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! > > > > Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs, Vertex >magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I have >even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of the >Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the NJ >Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the other >competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a tow. So >I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the >reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with two >up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know if >the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half the >distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did make >it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back then, >these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I don't >think I would care to try that > > stunt ever again . > > > > Frank Graham > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

-Rick Waters --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Maurice Paton]

Its more likely that the drag at 4800 rpm is matching the power being developed at this rpm. You would probably find you would go faster if you 'lowered' the gearing to allow the engine to reach a higher rpm where hopefully it develops more power. What you need to do is put your car on a dyno and find the rpm where the power peaks. You should then adjust your gearing until the engine can just reach this rpm and that will be your best top speed. The drag of a TC (or anything else for that matter)increases exponentially with speed so you need a lot more power to get to 90mph than you do to reach 80mph. -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Waters Sent: Monday, 16 May 2005 3:57 p.m. To: Skip Kelsey; Peter Ross; Frank Graham; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? All very interesting and pointing me in the right direction. Is there any one on the list that has knowledge of a good running 1466 cc engine with 1 and one quarter inch carbs? If so, what needles work for this combination? I want to make sure no one thinks I am complaining. The increased capacity made a huge difference in how the car drove, and so did the change to the taller rear gears. I really enjoy the car. Old published road tests indicate that a 1466 TF, (with 1 and one-half inch carbs and larger valves) will go about 85mph. I was hoping to match that, but the car just won't pull (due to lack of breathing capacity, I suspect) over 4800 rpm. I guess the next step would be to go to the larger carbs, followed by an extractor exhaust system, but since I don't intend to drive over about 70 mph, It would just be wasted money. Anyone who's seen my car knows that it cries out for new paint and upholstery, so that's where I'm going. Thanks for all the advice on this. If advancing the ignition timing makes a significant difference, I'll post the results. -Rick TC 7881 Skip Kelsey kelsey@amerion.com> wrote: Peter: I have a well stage tuned engine, and I have found that EL needles in 1 1/2 " carbs are the best. Especially if you are close to sea level as I am. I got a concurrence from Jerry Brown in UK. Cheers; Skip Kelsey.............................................................. At 11:58 PM 5/13/2005 -0400, Peter Ross wrote:

>Hi Rick, > >Lowering the axle ratio to get the cruising RPM down is working against

top

>speed. Bob's dead right, you are not developing enough horsepower to

drive

>the car any faster against the wind loading. Your larger capacity and >staying on small valves and carbs may give you great low-end torque,

but it

>probably isn't increasing the high end power output. > >Somewhere I've seen an aerodynamic graph for a TC of wind load vs speed

and

>it looks like a brick wall. > >In our racing TCs, the goal is to increase the power to overcome the

wind

>load which (without a supercharger) means improving the breathing

(bigger

>carbs, bigger valves, extractor exhaust etc) and getting a better

charge

>into the cylinders with a full-race, high overlap cam and all this

happens

>at a much higher rpm. The ideal is to gear the car so that we can just

pull

>peak-power revs in top gear. > >Last season I fitted a pair of EGT gauges (exhaust gas temperature) in >number 1 and number 4 exhaust header pipes. This gave me a very good >monitor of how the mixture was at different rpm under full throttle. I >knew, on the needles I was running, that they were perfect at 6000, but

rich

>at 4000. On another set of needles, I would find it OK at 4000 but a

bit

>lean (bad) at 6000. Now the next stage is to go to the interactive SU >needle web site and put in a few required station diameters and search

for a

>needle that matches. Then call Joe Curto to see if they are available.

Some

>have the luxury ($$$) of doing this on a dyno, but as Bob says, it's

tuning

>whichever way you do it. > >BTW, our average speed around Mosport or Watkins Glen is in the mid 70s

mph

>and at Mosport that includes one second gear turn and a long steep

uphill.

>But no bragging! > >Cheers, >Peter Ross >TC 8892 >Bolton, Massachusetts > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Waters" >To: "Frank Graham" ; >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:06 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > > > > Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a

4.625

>gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. > > > > The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1

1/4 inch

>carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air

cleaner.

>The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter

rear

>pipe. > > > > I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob >Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the

aerodynamics. I

>am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but

have

>no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle

with

>SUs, they must be tuned! > > > > I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you

know.

> > > > -Rick > > > > Frank Graham wrote: > > Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! > > > > Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs,

Vertex

>magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I

have

>even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of

the

>Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the

NJ

>Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the

other

>competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a

tow. So

>I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the >reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with

two

>up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know

if

>the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half

the

>distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did

make

>it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back

then,

>these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I

don't

>think I would care to try that > > stunt ever again . > > > > Frank Graham > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

-Rick Waters --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links

[Jeff Redman]

G'day again, Somewhere, sometime in the distant past I read that to achieve 100 mph. a TC need to develop 100 horsepressure. In probably the same place I also read a description of the TC's aerodynamics being compared with that of a barn... WITH THE BARN DOORS OPEN! Enzo the Great Eyetie once replied to an exponent of 'low drag' that aerodynamics was the retreat of limp wrists who couldn't build strong engines... Gentlemen... recently we have been shown the way, yea verily, by Andrew Clayton and his proposed wares. Currently I am franticly searching for means to extricate my position of enforced reduced circumstances in order to buy the bits and join the rush for the golden '100' Julian, my standard friend, can you advise how I may achieve a mere 20 milesper increase in top speed using period bits to beat the rest of this lot here? I await your response with engine idling. Reddo 3 parts full this time. -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maurice Paton Sent: Monday, 16 May 2005 2:25 PM To: Rick Waters; Skip Kelsey; Peter Ross; Frank Graham; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? Its more likely that the drag at 4800 rpm is matching the power being developed at this rpm. You would probably find you would go faster if you 'lowered' the gearing to allow the engine to reach a higher rpm where hopefully it develops more power. What you need to do is put your car on a dyno and find the rpm where the power peaks. You should then adjust your gearing until the engine can just reach this rpm and that will be your best top speed. The drag of a TC (or anything else for that matter)increases exponentially with speed so you need a lot more power to get to 90mph than you do to reach 80mph. -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Waters Sent: Monday, 16 May 2005 3:57 p.m. To: Skip Kelsey; Peter Ross; Frank Graham; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? All very interesting and pointing me in the right direction. Is there any one on the list that has knowledge of a good running 1466 cc engine with 1 and one quarter inch carbs? If so, what needles work for this combination? I want to make sure no one thinks I am complaining. The increased capacity made a huge difference in how the car drove, and so did the change to the taller rear gears. I really enjoy the car. Old published road tests indicate that a 1466 TF, (with 1 and one-half inch carbs and larger valves) will go about 85mph. I was hoping to match that, but the car just won't pull (due to lack of breathing capacity, I suspect) over 4800 rpm. I guess the next step would be to go to the larger carbs, followed by an extractor exhaust system, but since I don't intend to drive over about 70 mph, It would just be wasted money. Anyone who's seen my car knows that it cries out for new paint and upholstery, so that's where I'm going. Thanks for all the advice on this. If advancing the ignition timing makes a significant difference, I'll post the results. -Rick TC 7881 Skip Kelsey kelsey@amerion.com> wrote: Peter: I have a well stage tuned engine, and I have found that EL needles in 1 1/2 " carbs are the best. Especially if you are close to sea level as I am. I got a concurrence from Jerry Brown in UK. Cheers; Skip Kelsey.............................................................. At 11:58 PM 5/13/2005 -0400, Peter Ross wrote:

>Hi Rick, > >Lowering the axle ratio to get the cruising RPM down is working against

top

>speed. Bob's dead right, you are not developing enough horsepower to

drive

>the car any faster against the wind loading. Your larger capacity and >staying on small valves and carbs may give you great low-end torque,

but it

>probably isn't increasing the high end power output. > >Somewhere I've seen an aerodynamic graph for a TC of wind load vs speed

and

>it looks like a brick wall. > >In our racing TCs, the goal is to increase the power to overcome the

wind

>load which (without a supercharger) means improving the breathing

(bigger

>carbs, bigger valves, extractor exhaust etc) and getting a better

charge

>into the cylinders with a full-race, high overlap cam and all this

happens

>at a much higher rpm. The ideal is to gear the car so that we can just

pull

>peak-power revs in top gear. > >Last season I fitted a pair of EGT gauges (exhaust gas temperature) in >number 1 and number 4 exhaust header pipes. This gave me a very good >monitor of how the mixture was at different rpm under full throttle. I >knew, on the needles I was running, that they were perfect at 6000, but

rich

>at 4000. On another set of needles, I would find it OK at 4000 but a

bit

>lean (bad) at 6000. Now the next stage is to go to the interactive SU >needle web site and put in a few required station diameters and search

for a

>needle that matches. Then call Joe Curto to see if they are available.

Some

>have the luxury ($$$) of doing this on a dyno, but as Bob says, it's

tuning

>whichever way you do it. > >BTW, our average speed around Mosport or Watkins Glen is in the mid 70s

mph

>and at Mosport that includes one second gear turn and a long steep

uphill.

>But no bragging! > >Cheers, >Peter Ross >TC 8892 >Bolton, Massachusetts > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Waters" >To: "Frank Graham" ; >Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:06 PM >Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 80 MPH ? > > > > Sounds like bragging, but I have seen 4800 rpm in 4th gear, with a

4.625

>gear. This comes out to about 81 or 82 mph with the 450/19 Dunlops. > > > > The XPAG in my car is sleeved to 1466ccs, has the small valves, 1

1/4 inch

>carbs, and the mild grind Crane Cam. For that run, I used no air

cleaner.

>The exhaust is the Falcon stainless replacement with the pea shooter

rear

>pipe. > > > > I was disappointed that it would not go over 85 mph and wrote to Bob >Grunau, who thought it might have something to do with the

aerodynamics. I

>am also concerned that there might be a better needle than the ES, but

have

>no idea how to figure that one out. Bob said that one does not fiddle

with

>SUs, they must be tuned! > > > > I'm going to power tune the ignition, and try again. Will let you

know.

> > > > -Rick > > > > Frank Graham wrote: > > Maybe with a stiff tail wind, like a hurricane! > > > > Actually, my TC has a Laystall alloy head, 9.5:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs,

Vertex

>magneto and a TA 4.87 diff and with that setup it will pull 80 mph. I

have

>even exceeded that years ago on the 1976 NEMGT Bicentennial Rally of

the

>Colonial Capitals when we were running well behind time coming up the

NJ

>Turnpike to Perth Amboy which was our next check point. One of the

other

>competitors in a TF had a CB radio and asked a trucker to give me a

tow. So

>I pulled up to within a few feet of the rear of his semi and, with the >reduced wind resistance, covered the next 15 or so miles at 85 mph with

two

>up, top down and loaded to the gills with all of our gear. I don't know

if

>the trucker had any idea that he could probably stop in less than half

the

>distance that I could but I sure thought about it. It worked and we did

make

>it in on time without penalty points. OTOH, the engine was fresh back

then,

>these days with all the years and miles on both the TC and myself, I

don't

>think I would care to try that > > stunt ever again . > > > > Frank Graham > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Rick Waters > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

-Rick Waters --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links