klr stock kickstand

[boulder_adv_rider]

The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for demanding tasks including hot deserts. Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now (Question #1). Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed researching this. Thanks, all.

[Jeff Saline]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:41:40 -0000 "boulder_adv_rider" writes:

> The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for > demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" > diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan > serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 > oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size > and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) > to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans > below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" > like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of > thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's > cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now > (Question #1). > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to > re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed > researching this. Thanks, all.

<><><><><> <><><><><> Best I've done is install a second radiator and it too has a fan. With the added cooling capacity the fans aren't as important. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff6da77dbaff5a77098dst52vuc

[David Nichols]

All that small fan has to do is pull some air through the radiator at a stop light. Above 20 MPH it actually gets in the way of air flow... ________________________________ From: Jeff Saline To: boulder_adv_rider@... Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] increasing KLR 650 fan cfm plus coverage On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:41:40 -0000 "boulder_adv_rider" writes:

> The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for > demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" > diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan > serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 > oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size > and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) > to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans > below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" > like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of > thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's > cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now > (Question #1). > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to > re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed > researching this. Thanks, all.

<><><><><> <><><><><> Best I've done is install a second radiator and it too has a fan. With the added cooling capacity the fans aren't as important. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . __________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff6da77dbaff5a77098dst52vuc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dat brooklyn bum]

Others have used a fan from one of the Ninja models. It has 6 blades instead of 5 so it moves more air. Many have used electronics fans on other bikes that have no fan and seem to like the results. I've never overheated my KLR so I don't worry about it. When it gets a little warm, I ride faster. da Vermonster

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:41:40 -0000 "boulder_adv_rider" > writes: > > The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for > > demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" > > diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan > > serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 > > oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size > > and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) > > to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans > > below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" > > like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of > > thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's > > cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now > > (Question #1). > > > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to > > re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed > > researching this. Thanks, all. > <><><><><> > <><><><><> > > Best I've done is install a second radiator and it too has a fan. With > the added cooling capacity the fans aren't as important. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 > > . > . > ____________________________________________________________ > 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 > The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff6da77dbaff5a77098dst52vuc >

[greg coyle]

What a great idea... 2 5" fans should fit in there? I like to putt around on the KLR at low speeds and in this heat the bike gets hot and fan kicks in making it uncomfortable for me. The hot air seems to surround me making a hot day a lot hotter. Yea, I know speeding up reduces that but as soon as I slow down again it heats up again. gregc socorro, nm

On 7/5/2012 10:41 PM, boulder_adv_rider wrote: > The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for > demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" > diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan serving a > large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 oz) of cooling > capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size and/or style of > pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) to replace the OEM > fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans below the OEM fan to > increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" like a > shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of thin metal > or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's cfm @ speed over > the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now (Question #1). > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to re-open > Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed researching > this. Thanks, all. > >

[revmaaatin]

This will sound counter intuitve-but will help cooling none-the-less, and a boat load simpler: You will get better cooling with plain 'water' than with anti-freeze. Replace the coolant with distilled water; make- HUGE NOTE TO SELF: REPLACE coolant with antifreeze in Oct. revmaaatin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "boulder_adv_rider" wrote: > > The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now (Question #1). > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed researching this. Thanks, all. >

[boulder_adv_rider]

Thanks for everyone's input. Mathematically, we have a radiator that's 12" x 6.5" or 78" sq. and a fan that's 5" or 19.64" sq. Bottom-line is COVERAGE is only 25% (at best) in this single radiator system. Jeff--With nerf bars, the coffee maker, mini-frig, 25" plasma...simply for me there is no room for a 2nd radiator. I take it with your duals, you have no overflow reservoir? I've always envied your dual rads, but it'd be over $600+ just to add the rad and fan not to mention the cost to get it fit and rigged. $1,000 all-in??? David Nichols--A lot of the time I'm in deserts in deep sand and often loaded down with kit, so 20 mph+ is strongly desired but not always possible. Hills with deep sand? Forget it. Once you lose momentum in a long stretch of deep sand and you see the needle peg right and engine dieseling, you realize the KLR has limits. Simply, there's only so much heat that can be transferred out of a fluid (mix) with the stock setup covering 25% of surface area. But otherwise I agree if you're in traffic somewhere running a bit hotter than normal, yeah, ride faster. I have over 34k miles on this KLR and maybe 20% are street. But I agree with you, for most 80 street/20 off riders, overheating simply isn't and will never be an issue. Clearly slower speed is the issue here while not inhibiting free-flow cooling solutions at speed. dat brooklyn bum/da Vermonster--I have heard of others using Ninja fans and they're cheaper than stock fans. This could add a bit more cfm but noticeable? How much?? If you inspect the fan/rad and what is actually covered flow-wise (pre-2008 models at least), it's inefficiently covered @ 25%. Again, a 5" diameter fan covers a 12" x 6.5" radiator = poor. Two fans with a single shroud (like some cars) would be a much better design plus add redundancy. As for any system, I prefer always distributed and redundant over "heavy duty." gregc--I put my KLR through demanding conditions regularly (2 blown engines). Add in hot ambient temps and it's not much to push the KLR cooling capacity deep into the red. But to answer your question, I don't think two (2) 5" stock fans would fit. Plus, running two OEM fans would likely draw 9 amps--at least initially. Under the OEM fan there is approx 5" x 6.5" of space. You could fit one 4" fan or perhaps a cluster of two (2) 2.5" fans in a separate shroud (this wouldn't be my first choice but worth researching). There are potential options to add more surface area while increasing cooling rates with the right fans + shroud combo. Yet, at this point, I don't think we need to double capacity. An increase of as little as 25% might serve us perfectly well. But why not also add safety margin with redundancy of a secondary cooling fan? For example, imagine at Temp 1, fan one initiates. At Temp2, fan #2 initiates assisting #1 until Temp1 is achieved. If one fan fails, you still have coverage. revmaaatin--Straight distilled water has its limits--most notably a lower effective vapor point and evaporation. But you are correct water does cool better than ethylene glycol coolant because of water's higher heat carrying capacity per unit. However, coolant's higher vapor point means it can continue absorbing heat at higher temps. So, while a 100% distilled water mix would cool best, you still need to consider things like evaporation, corrosion inhibitors and lubricant for mechanical water pumps (seals). Perhaps use a 90/10 mix to get a touch of the lube/anti-corrosion benefits and yet still enjoy a potential of upto 20 degree decrease in cooling temp running near straight water? One additional improvement I'd consider is raising the vapor point of a 90%+ water system by increasing the release on the radiator cap (e.g., move from a 15-18 psi cap to a 23-25 psi cap). For every point of system pressure increase, the boiling point of water will increase by 3 degrees. This higher boiling point helps reduce evaporation losses, water pump cavitation, and heat-soak-induced-after-boil. In other words, a higher-rated cap will keep the water from blowing out while adding more capacity for it to continue to absorb heat at higher temp. Ultimately, if your marginal rate of heat build is higher than your cooling system's marginal cooling rate, it's only a matter of time before the heat reaper arrives regardless of fluid choice/mix. Here I'm most interested in proven gains in marginal cooling rates via surface area and flow (speed). Like David Nichols said,...just speed up and problem goes away.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:41:40 -0000 "boulder_adv_rider" > writes: > > The current fan on my 2004 685 is inefficient and underpowered for > > demanding tasks including hot deserts. > > > > Question #1: Has anyone successfully installed a larger fan? > > > > The radiator is roughly 12" x 6.5" and yet the OEM fan is only a 5" > > diameter blade. In other words, you have a small, round 5" fan > > serving a large rectangle--very inefficient--serving 1.3 liters (44 > > oz) of cooling capacity. I'm considering modifying any type, size > > and/or style of pull-type fan (7" Procomps, 12v computer fans, etc.) > > to replace the OEM fan and/or add another fan or cluster of fans > > below the OEM fan to increase cooling capacity. Got data anyone? > > > > Question #2: Has anyone successfully produced an OEM-grade shroud? > > > > Over the years I've seen a mod(s) to divert the air flow to "act" > > like a shroud but haven't seen a production-grade shroud made out of > > thin metal or plastic. I'd be happy to fab one but in reality it's > > cfm @ speed over the entire radiator that I'm more interested in now > > (Question #1). > > > > Ultimately, I'm considering R&D-ing whatever but don't want to > > re-open Pandora's box if someone's already been seriously maimed > > researching this. Thanks, all. > <><><><><> > <><><><><> > > Best I've done is install a second radiator and it too has a fan. With > the added cooling capacity the fans aren't as important. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 > > . > . > ____________________________________________________________ > 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 > The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff6da77dbaff5a77098dst52vuc >

[Jeff Saline]

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:30:36 -0000 "boulder_adv_rider" writes:

> Jeff--With nerf bars, the coffee maker, mini-frig, 25" > plasma...simply for me there is no room for a 2nd radiator. I take > it with your duals, you have no overflow reservoir? I've always > envied your dual rads, but it'd be over $600+ just to add the rad > and fan not to mention the cost to get it fit and rigged. $1,000 > all-in???

<><><><><><> <><><><><><> I do have an overflow reservoir but it's from a KLR250 (same as my right radiator) and located where the side stand switch is on a stock bike. A couple of guys that I've heard from that are also running dual radiators don't think the overflow is needed. The radiators do such a good job of removing heat the lack of overflow capability doesn't matter. I spent much less buying parts than your suggested $600. I have no idea what it would cost if a guy was to hire out the work to make the dual radiator setup happen. It could probably be done in a day if a guy didn't care what it looked like and didn't want to add a fan on the right radiator. The fan takes up lots of room and in my opinion isn't needed with two radiators. The first (right) radiator removes a bunch of heat from the coolant and the second radiator removes a bunch more. The stock electrical system can handle two fans no problem. I think mine have turned on twice in the last 4-5 years. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . ____________________________________________________________ 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33 The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff9841e13e1041d039cst52vuc

[RJ]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "boulder_adv_rider" wrote:

>

Major snipage: Here I'm most interested in proven gains in marginal cooling rates via surface area and flow (speed). Like David Nichols said,...just speed up and problem goes away.

>

b_a_r- I wonder if a 'funnel-shroud' installed around the fan would make the fan pull air from the entire rear profile of the radiator? Seems to me that many of the newer cars are set up that way. At first blush, it would seem helpful = increased airflow at low speed and perhaps a hiderence at high speed . On another forum (or was it here?), they suggest blocking the air = installation of flexible aircraft baffling above the radiator so that there is no recirculating air over the top of the radiator. revmaaatin.

[boulder_adv_rider]

Rev - I think a shroud enhancement to the upper half would be an improvement. However given the stock fan and its location, a shroud covering the entire rad surface might be a hindrance if not properly placed and optimized. Yes, today's cars all use a shroud that draws air across the entire surface with minimal turbulence thereafter but engineers choose the optimal (center) location of the fan, power, blade design and the design of the shroud so as to NOT hinder airflow at speed. Given the stock setup with its current location, coincidentally, I doubt it would be optimized. Forcing the most air through the radiator is the best scenario, however creating a dam to effect that might induce turbulence and un wanted air resistance. These are all things that would have to be researched, of course, but my first blush is at speed (again) things are working just fine. There's plenty of air flowing over the radiator surface @ speed vs. lack of speed. So my second blush would be to develop an optimized shroud covering the upper half of the radiator vs. a giant funnel. This design would guide the airflow vs. redirect everything and potentially inducing turbulence and/or restriction at higher speed. Alternatively, adding a smaller auxiliary fan below the main might add the marginal cooling needed sans any shroud enhancements. Again, these are all questions I/we have and was hoping some intrepid soul had done the research and analysis. Seems not.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "boulder_adv_rider" wrote: > > > Major snipage: > > Here I'm most interested in proven gains in marginal cooling rates via surface area and flow (speed). Like David Nichols said,...just speed up and problem goes away. > > > > b_a_r- > I wonder if a 'funnel-shroud' installed around the fan would make the fan pull air from the entire rear profile of the radiator? Seems to me that many of the newer cars are set up that way. > > At first blush, it would seem helpful = increased airflow at low speed and perhaps a hiderence at high speed . > > On another forum (or was it here?), they suggest blocking the air = installation of flexible aircraft baffling above the radiator so that there is no recirculating air over the top of the radiator. > > revmaaatin. >