my oil burning problem......what?

[david.r.nichols@sbcglobal.net]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David

[Jeff Khoury]

What was your average speed, out of curiosity? -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David

[Jeff Khoury]

Without knowing the details, I would say you may have a cylinder/ring problem. That's a LOT of oil. Even the '08s don't burn that much. Personally, If I were to tear into it as far as replacing rings I would just do a 685 kit and be done with it. It's $400.00 with cylinder exchange from EM, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd burn no more oil, in addition to all the other benefits. That's what I would do if it were my bike, my time and my money. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David

[Fred Hink]

Some KLRs just use lots of oil and there are lots of reasons why this may happen. I have discussed this with Eldon Carl and he is of the opinion that it is the cylinder that is too thin that causes the bore to get oval shaped and this allows oil past the piston rings. He also mentioned that using a big bore kit will stop the oil usage for a while but because you have made the cylinder even thinner, he doubts that this will be a permanent fix. Anytime you bore a cylinder it is going to be round and the same is true for the OEM piston or any aftermarket piston. The only other place that oil can be burned is by the valves at the valve guides and the valve guide seals. Unless you have an oil leak somewhere, these are the only place that you will use oil. The hole in the air box is not good. It will allow dirt inside to wear the rings and piston. This dirt can not get to your cams, so since you say they look like new, they should be. About the only thing you can do is to measure the piston and the cylinder for clearance and for any out of round measurements. This is best done by someone who knows engines. I would also have the valve to valve guide clearance checked and I d recommend replacing the valve guide seals while you have it down. Don t just replace the rings unless the rings are bad and the piston measures good. Good rings in a bad cylinder won t get you very far. Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: david.r.nichols@... Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 12:50 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Nichols]

Thanks, I've considered that. It's not in my current budget, so I guess I'll just keep adding oil for now. What about the valve seals? Should I replace them at the same time as the 685 kit? Also, why buy from Eagle Mike since Schnitz Racing makes it for him? I could buy directly from Schnitz. ________________________________ From: Jeff Khoury To: david r nichols Cc: DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Without knowing the details, I would say you may have a cylinder/ring problem. That's a LOT of oil. Even the '08s don't burn that much. Personally, If I were to tear into it as far as replacing rings I would just do a 685 kit and be done with it. It's $400.00 with cylinder exchange from EM, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd burn no more oil, in addition to all the other benefits. That's what I would do if it were my bike, my time and my money. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

I don't think (the last time I checked) that Schnitz does the cylinder swap. You'd have to buy the kit and send your cylinder out for boring. EM keeps a few on hand and will send you an already bored cylinder with the kit, and you send him yours to bore and put on the shelf. That's what the extra $100.00 is for. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nichols" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:08:50 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Thanks, I've considered that. It's not in my current budget, so I guess I'll just keep adding oil for now. What about the valve seals? Should I replace them at the same time as the 685 kit? Also, why buy from Eagle Mike since Schnitz Racing makes it for him? I could buy directly from Schnitz. From: Jeff Khoury To: david r nichols Cc: DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Without knowing the details, I would say you may have a cylinder/ring problem. That's a LOT of oil. Even the '08s don't burn that much. Personally, If I were to tear into it as far as replacing rings I would just do a 685 kit and be done with it. It's $400.00 with cylinder exchange from EM, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd burn no more oil, in addition to all the other benefits. That's what I would do if it were my bike, my time and my money. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" < david.r.nichols@... > To: "DSN KLR650" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David

[David Nichols]

Fred, I think the unfiltered air probably caused the oil burning. I hope the cylinder isn't too scored. When I do the 685 kit, I will definetly replace the valve seals and maybe even the guides and valves as well. What about cutting the valve seats? Do you think I could find a machine shop in the Dallas Fort Worth area that could machine my valve seats as well as bore the cylinder for the 685 kit? -David ________________________________ From: Fred Hink To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Some KLRs just use lots of oil and there are lots of reasons why this may happen. I have discussed this with Eldon Carl and he is of the opinion that it is the cylinder that is too thin that causes the bore to get oval shaped and this allows oil past the piston rings. He also mentioned that using a big bore kit will stop the oil usage for a while but because you have made the cylinder even thinner, he doubts that this will be a permanent fix. Anytime you bore a cylinder it is going to be round and the same is true for the OEM piston or any aftermarket piston. The only other place that oil can be burned is by the valves at the valve guides and the valve guide seals. Unless you have an oil leak somewhere, these are the only place that you will use oil. The hole in the air box is not good. It will allow dirt inside to wear the rings and piston. This dirt can not get to your cams, so since you say they look like new, they should be. About the only thing you can do is to measure the piston and the cylinder for clearance and for any out of round measurements. This is best done by someone who knows engines. I would also have the valve to valve guide clearance checked and I d recommend replacing the valve guide seals while you have it down. Don t just replace the rings unless the rings are bad and the piston measures good. Good rings in a bad cylinder won t get you very far. Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: david.r.nichols@... Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 12:50 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

// EM does a lot of them and knows how to do it/have it done properly.// If or when my KLR ever starts to get "tired" or burn oil, I think I'm going to try bribing EM to help me do mine. While I'm fairly confident in my skills to do most maintenance, I'd really like to have an expert hand/eye helping/watching me. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cox" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "David Nichols" Cc: "KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:23:55 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. And related to Fred s post, the boring process for the 685 is not trivial to ensure a round hole.

[David Nichols]

There are no oil leaks, my garage floor is bone dry where I park the bike. Also, I recently adjusted the valve clearances. I will tear it down myself and get it inspected and measured before I do anything. I'm just the type to plan ahead for the worst... I'm suspecting the unfiltered air has caused this. I forgot to add the air filter in it was held together with a zip tie. The DPO wasn't the brightest... I knew about the condition of this bike going in. If you recall, I only paid $500 for this bike and so far I'm only $1,100 into it. ________________________________ From: "Cox, John" To: Jeff Khoury ; David Nichols Cc: KLR Group DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:23 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. And related to Fred s post, the boring process for the 685 is not trivial to ensure a round hole. EM does a lot of them and knows how to do it/have it done properly. If you re short on cash but have the tools and ability you might want to tear the top end down and have a look at the rings and cylinder. Also check the output shaft seal at the counter sprocket the oil drain plug, and any other place leaked oil could be. When you checked the valves were any of them tight (no/low clearance?) -john From:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Khoury Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:16 PM To: David Nichols Cc: KLR Group Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. I don't think (the last time I checked) that Schnitz does the cylinder swap. You'd have to buy the kit and send your cylinder out for boring. EM keeps a few on hand and will send you an already bored cylinder with the kit, and you send him yours to bore and put on the shelf. That's what the extra $100.00 is for. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nichols" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "KLR Group" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:08:50 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Thanks, I've considered that. It's not in my current budget, so I guess I'll just keep adding oil for now. What about the valve seals? Should I replace them at the same time as the 685 kit? Also, why buy from Eagle Mike since Schnitz Racing makes it for him? I could buy directly from Schnitz. From: Jeff Khoury To: david r nichols Cc: DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Without knowing the details, I would say you may have a cylinder/ring problem. That's a LOT of oil. Even the '08s don't burn that much. Personally, If I were to tear into it as far as replacing rings I would just do a 685 kit and be done with it. It's $400.00 with cylinder exchange from EM, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd burn no more oil, in addition to all the other benefits. That's what I would do if it were my bike, my time and my money. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" < david.r.nichols@... > To: "DSN KLR650" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Fred Hink]

I have bored and finished many cylinders in my day and I know what makes a good bore and a not so good bore. The problem with the KLR650 cylinder according to Eldon Carl is that the KLR cylinder is supported from the top and the bottom and nothing in the middle. The KLR cylinder on some bike have been known to use excessive amounts of oil because the cylinder becomes out of round. Boring the cylinder will make it round but the more material you take off this cylinder the more it seems it will become less stabile. Going to a big bore kit will make it temporarily round but for how long? Sure you hear all the stories about how someone has this big bore kit done and their oil usage miraculously disappears, the same thing would happen if they had a rebore to the first or second oversized standard piston. Going to the largest size on a rebore at the start is something you don t do because that eliminates all the other chances of repairing the cylinder. If you need to have the big bore cylinder rebored, then what do you do? If you understand that once you put in a big bore kit then there are few alternatives for another rebore, it is your money and you can use it anyway you like. Fred www.arrowheadmotorsports.com From: David Nichols Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 3:35 PM To: KLR Group Cc: Cox, John ; Jeff Khoury Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. There are no oil leaks, my garage floor is bone dry where I park the bike. Also, I recently adjusted the valve clearances. I will tear it down myself and get it inspected and measured before I do anything. I'm just the type to plan ahead for the worst... I'm suspecting the unfiltered air has caused this. I forgot to add the air filter in it was held together with a zip tie. The DPO wasn't the brightest... I knew about the condition of this bike going in. If you recall, I only paid $500 for this bike and so far I'm only $1,100 into it. ________________________________ From: "Cox, John" To: Jeff Khoury ; David Nichols Cc: KLR Group Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:23 PM Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. And related to Fred s post, the boring process for the 685 is not trivial to ensure a round hole. EM does a lot of them and knows how to do it/have it done properly. If you re short on cash but have the tools and ability you might want to tear the top end down and have a look at the rings and cylinder. Also check the output shaft seal at the counter sprocket the oil drain plug, and any other place leaked oil could be. When you checked the valves were any of them tight (no/low clearance?) -john From:mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Khoury Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 2:16 PM To: David Nichols Cc: KLR Group Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. I don't think (the last time I checked) that Schnitz does the cylinder swap. You'd have to buy the kit and send your cylinder out for boring. EM keeps a few on hand and will send you an already bored cylinder with the kit, and you send him yours to bore and put on the shelf. That's what the extra $100.00 is for. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nichols" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "KLR Group" Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:08:50 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Thanks, I've considered that. It's not in my current budget, so I guess I'll just keep adding oil for now. What about the valve seals? Should I replace them at the same time as the 685 kit? Also, why buy from Eagle Mike since Schnitz Racing makes it for him? I could buy directly from Schnitz. From: Jeff Khoury To: david r nichols Cc: DSN KLR650 Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Without knowing the details, I would say you may have a cylinder/ring problem. That's a LOT of oil. Even the '08s don't burn that much. Personally, If I were to tear into it as far as replacing rings I would just do a 685 kit and be done with it. It's $400.00 with cylinder exchange from EM, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that you'd burn no more oil, in addition to all the other benefits. That's what I would do if it were my bike, my time and my money. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "david r nichols" < mailto:david.r.nichols%40sbcglobal.net > To: "DSN KLR650" < mailto:DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:50:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] My oil burning problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on why my KLR is using so much oil? It used about 3/4 a quart on a 170 mile ride (all on road). The stats are: It had been sitting since 2007 when I bought it, ODO shows 13,000 miles. I have recently put about 300 miles on it. When I bought it it had a hole in the airbox that the exhaust had melted. This was letting unfiltered air in. I have no idea how long it was ridden in this condition. When I adjusted the valves, the cams looked brand new, mirror like finish. I am using Valvoline synthetic oil 15w40 weight. Someone has suggested I use 15w40 Rotella to reduce oil usage. Why would that make any difference? Do you think I need to get new rings and valve seals? -David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]