(klr650) : severe drop in mpg .

[Mike Frey]

My vote is valve adjustment. It's time to do them anyway.

On 9/19/2011 8:15 AM, Luc Legrain wrote: > > The bike runs good, except for a couples of hickups and lurches once > in a while and slow throttle response . > > From: Eric J Foster > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:01 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: (klr650) : Severe drop in mpg . > > > > Never did say, how does the bike run? > > E > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

[JWF]

I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF

[k650@verizon.net]

What you need to do is take a small flat punch or a dull chisel and try to catch the outer edge of the metal band and with light taps of a small hammer fold the metal in towards the center of the bore. The seal will collapse and once it does will pry out easily. Walt -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JWF Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 17:22 To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] *%#&#*! Oil Seal! I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF

[RobertWichert]

OK, I'm sure you have tried this, but I would try to grab the lip of the seal rim with a pair of needle nosed vice grips and pull it to pieces. I am a little heavy handed at times though, so maybe this isn't your idea of a repair. Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===========================================================

On 9/19/2011 2:21 PM, JWF wrote: > > I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal > out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The > metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in > Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. > Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is > still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. > Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: > as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and > the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). > So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having > more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the > loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. > She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like > the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them > as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas > appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the > cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[James W. Flower]

OK Walt, I'll give it a shot. Then if it doesn't work I'll give myself a shot.

On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:30 PM, wrote: > What you need to do is take a small flat punch or a dull chisel and try to > catch the outer edge of the metal band and with light taps of a small hammer > fold the metal in towards the center of the bore. The seal will collapse > and once it does will pry out easily. > > Walt > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of JWF > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 17:22 > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] *%#&#*! Oil Seal! > > I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal > out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal > outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and > many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid > Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I > was shy about heat): no help. > Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: > as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the > bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the > only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance > would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that > would be as good as leaving it on the bike. > She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I > like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as > for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, > especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. > Thanks- JWF > > > >

[James W. Flower]

Robert, I did try that, with several variations on the tool. Even with a good grip, I can't pull hard enough to budge it. I did think of a new thing: I have a slide hammer and some blind bearing puller collets. I think one of the collets will fit into the rim. It's divided into four 90-degree wedges, all of which will expand out so that I catch nearly 360 degrees of the underside of the rim. Worth a try! -JWF

On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:34 PM, RobertWichert wrote: > OK, I'm sure you have tried this, but I would try to grab the lip of the seal rim with a pair of needle nosed vice grips and pull it to pieces. > > I am a little heavy handed at times though, so maybe this isn't your idea of a repair. > > > > Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > =========================================================== > > On 9/19/2011 2:21 PM, JWF wrote: >> >> I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. >> Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. >> She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[RobertWichert]

Even twist and rip? Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===========================================================

On 9/19/2011 2:53 PM, James W. Flower wrote: > Robert, I did try that, with several variations on the tool. Even > with a good grip, I can't pull hard enough to budge it. > I did think of a new thing: I have a slide hammer and some blind > bearing puller collets. I think one of the collets will fit into the > rim. It's divided into four 90-degree wedges, all of which will > expand out so that I catch nearly 360 degrees of the underside of the > rim. Worth a try! -JWF > > On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:34 PM, RobertWichert wrote: > >> OK, I'm sure you have tried this, but I would try to grab the lip of >> the seal rim with a pair of needle nosed vice grips and pull it to >> pieces. >> >> I am a little heavy handed at times though, so maybe this isn't your >> idea of a repair. >> >> >> >> Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> >> >> >> =========================================================== >> >> On 9/19/2011 2:21 PM, JWF wrote: >>> >>> I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal >>> out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The >>> metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in >>> Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the >>> rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch >>> cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. >>> Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not >>> help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the >>> outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the >>> bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, >>> and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good >>> way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on >>> the bike. >>> She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I >>> like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for >>> them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas >>> appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the >>> cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF >>> >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[James W. Flower]

Yeah, even twist and rip. Perhaps I'm just not strong enough. Also, there's precious little lip to grab onto. The needlenose Visegrips work best, but no luck so far. Maybe I'll take a broken-off piece of hacksaw blade and saw a slot into the rim as far as I can before I hit the clutch case, then try for twist and rip (sorry, Twist and Rip). Gee, you're all giving me more ideas. We'll cheat the poor hardworking mechanic out of a job yet!

On Sep 19, 2011, at 3:35 PM, RobertWichert wrote: > Even twist and rip? > > > > > Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > =========================================================== > > On 9/19/2011 2:53 PM, James W. Flower wrote: >> >> Robert, I did try that, with several variations on the tool. Even with a good grip, I can't pull hard enough to budge it. >> I did think of a new thing: I have a slide hammer and some blind bearing puller collets. I think one of the collets will fit into the rim. It's divided into four 90-degree wedges, all of which will expand out so that I catch nearly 360 degrees of the underside of the rim. Worth a try! -JWF >> >> On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:34 PM, RobertWichert wrote: >> >>> OK, I'm sure you have tried this, but I would try to grab the lip of the seal rim with a pair of needle nosed vice grips and pull it to pieces. >>> >>> I am a little heavy handed at times though, so maybe this isn't your idea of a repair. >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >>> +1 916 966 9060 >>> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =========================================================== >>> >>> On 9/19/2011 2:21 PM, JWF wrote: >>>> >>>> I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. >>>> Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. >>>> She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF >>>> >>>> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[James W. Flower]

Not much risk to the bearing, John, since the lips on the puller collet will only hook underneath the top lip of the seal, and it will be an upward pull from there. But it's true that the farther I expand the collet jaws to best grab the underside of the lip, the tighter they will push against the sides. But the side contact will be minimal, since the edges of the collet jaws will be angled by the time it spreads out enough to get under the rim. And it the puller just bends the whole rim straight up, it'll be easier to cut, Twist and Rip, etc., and I can still pound the lip inward per Walt's method. If I use more random, destructive methods (sounds fun though) first, to no avail, I may not even be able to try the puller.

On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:57 PM, Cox, John wrote: > I would try Walt's method or some variant first. The metal seal part should be pretty thin and weak and easy to destructively remove. > > I'd be concerned that your bearing might exert too much radial force on either the bearing or the case. > > Very Respectfully, > > John Cox > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James W. Flower > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 2:53 PM > To: KLR650 DSN > Cc: RobertWichert > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] *%#&#*! Oil Seal! > > Robert, I did try that, with several variations on the tool. Even with a good grip, I can't pull hard enough to budge it. > I did think of a new thing: I have a slide hammer and some blind bearing puller collets. I think one of the collets will fit into the rim. It's divided into four 90-degree wedges, all of which will expand out so that I catch nearly 360 degrees of the underside of the rim. Worth a try! -JWF > > On Sep 19, 2011, at 2:34 PM, RobertWichert wrote: > >> OK, I'm sure you have tried this, but I would try to grab the lip of the seal rim with a pair of needle nosed vice grips and pull it to pieces. >> >> I am a little heavy handed at times though, so maybe this isn't your idea of a repair. >> >> >> >> Robert P Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> >> >> >> =========================================================== >> >> On 9/19/2011 2:21 PM, JWF wrote: >>> >>> I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I was shy about heat): no help. >>> Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that would be as good as leaving it on the bike. >>> She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. Thanks- JWF >>> >>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Sponsors - Dual Sport News: http://www.dualsportnews.com > Arrowhead Motorsports: http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok: http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/app/peoplemap/view/map > Group Apps: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/grouplets/subscriptionsYahoo! Groups Links > > >

[Jud]

In a similar vein, a very sharp round tool like an ice pick or scratch awl might be driven behind ths metal band to achieve the same thing. If nothing else avails, you ought to have enough room to do something useful with a dremel.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > What you need to do is take a small flat punch or a dull chisel and try to > catch the outer edge of the metal band and with light taps of a small hammer > fold the metal in towards the center of the bore. The seal will collapse > and once it does will pry out easily. > > Walt > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of JWF > Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 17:22 > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] *%#&#*! Oil Seal! > > I still can't get the remnants of the clutch release lever oil seal > out. The rubber part's out, along with it's spring-steel band. The metal > outer rim is stuck fast so far. The seal pick recommended in Clymer, and > many other prying devises, just deform the lip of the rim. Lots of Liquid > Wrench: no help. Heat (only 190 , the clutch cover is still installed so I > was shy about heat): no help. > Aside from the hassle of removing the clutch cover, it might not help: > as far as I can tell, the seal can only come out from the outside (and the > bearing can only go in from the inside; but the bearing is fine). So the > only advantages would be freer use of heat, and maybe having more clearance > would help. But I don't have a good way to secure the loose cover that > would be as good as leaving it on the bike. > She goes in the shop tomorrow morning if I can't get her today. I > like the shop, but this is the kind of job that could be as hard for them as > for me, and as time-consuming (read "expensive"). Any ideas appreciated, > especially if my vision of the anatomy of the cover/bearing/seal is wrong. > Thanks- JWF >