making a gasket.

[sh8knj8kster]

I mentioned in another post I was doing my 08' KLR motor's first valve inspection at 10 K miles and I found all four valves out, was/am going to shim with the prerequiste shims to get each clearance to the widest acceptable value had to order 3 shims per my calculations and use one of the OEM shims to shim one of the out of spec valves. Got the 3 shims Sat. (thanks Fred), installed them...3 out of the 4 are spot on. Both exhaust clearances are 10 thou now and one of the two intake valve clearances is 8 thou but the other intake is 9 thou with the calculated shim. Let me splain' this one out of spec clearance- Originally checked, found to be at .004", shim the factory used was 245 (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic). Empirical math calculations sez I need a 235 shim to get the clearance to .008". That's the size I installed (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic), but this valve clearance is at .009" now (I trippled checked) When I measured this clearance originally, only the .004" guage would fit, I tried the .005" feeler guage and it would not go Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. FWIW, I did not remove the cam chain tensioner before removing any of the shims. I removed the cam holder caps on the right side (both camshafts), backed out the cap bolts of the cam shaft caps next to the sprockets, leaving them threaded in 2 tunrs of threads so the caps stay put, thereby having enough vertical movement of the camshafts on the left side to lift up enough to get the left shims in and out...yet I removed the cam chain tensioner (I'm repeating myself) before installing the cam shafts after fitting the new shims After installing the new shims, removing the tensioner and re-fitting camshaft cap holders (all four), I carefully inspected how these caps fit in relation to the surface they seat against. Everything fit well, nothing fit tight, nothing bound up, I finger tightened the nuts, double checked the fit and re-torqued to 75" lbs, spun the rotor bolt/crank at least 2 revolutions CCW and checked my clearances which I mentioned The way I see it, i order and wait for a 240 shim to replace the 235 shim and order a new (probably 2) cam chain tensioner gasket too, wait for these parts to arrive and install, recheck. Or I could leave the one intake valve clearance at 009" ( a tad fat) thinking it will tighten with some more miles and fall into spec and, use copper RTV and make a gasket for the cam chain tensioner and button it up. I'm leaning towards the first scenario Noticed the factory used a copper washer for the tensioner adjustor bolt so I'll anneal it before final fitting Anyways, thoughts from the Borg?=:-) Jake Reddick Fla. To doubt one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man. Don't defend past actions; what is right today may be wrong tomorrow. Don't be consistent; consistency is the refuge of fools. --H. G. Rickover http://www.shakinjake.blogspot.com/

[sh8knj8kster]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sh8knj8kster" wrote:

> Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable.

~~~~(((typo))) I meant to say, it's *not* re-useable. Anyone here forego the oem paper tensioner gasket and use copper RTV instead?....and what about the .001" *fat* clearance, re-shim it or let it go? good ideas or bad ideas? what say you Jake Reddick Fla. "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." - Anon. http://www.shakinjake.blogspot.com/

> > I mentioned in another post I was doing my 08' KLR motor's first valve inspection at 10 K miles and I found all four valves out, was/am going to shim with the prerequiste shims to get each clearance to the widest acceptable value > > > had to order 3 shims per my calculations and use one of the OEM shims to shim one of the out of spec valves. Got the 3 shims Sat. (thanks Fred), installed them...3 out of the 4 are spot on. Both exhaust clearances are 10 thou now and one of the two intake valve clearances is 8 thou but the other intake is 9 thou with the calculated shim. Let me splain' this one out of spec clearance- > > > Originally checked, found to be at .004", shim the factory used was 245 (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic). Empirical math calculations sez I need a 235 shim to get the clearance to .008". That's the size I installed (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic), but this valve clearance is at .009" now (I trippled checked) > > > When I measured this clearance originally, only the .004" guage would fit, I tried the .005" feeler guage and it would not go > > > Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. FWIW, I did not remove the cam chain tensioner before removing any of the shims. I removed the cam holder caps on the right side (both camshafts), backed out the cap bolts of the cam shaft caps next to the sprockets, leaving them threaded in 2 tunrs of threads so the caps stay put, thereby having enough vertical movement of the camshafts on the left side to lift up enough to get the left shims in and out...yet I removed the cam chain tensioner (I'm repeating myself) before installing the cam shafts after fitting the new shims > > > After installing the new shims, removing the tensioner and re-fitting camshaft cap holders (all four), I carefully inspected how these caps fit in relation to the surface they seat against. Everything fit well, nothing fit tight, nothing bound up, I finger tightened the nuts, double checked the fit and re-torqued to 75" lbs, spun the rotor bolt/crank at least 2 revolutions CCW and checked my clearances which I mentioned > > > The way I see it, i order and wait for a 240 shim to replace the 235 shim and order a new (probably 2) cam chain tensioner gasket too, wait for these parts to arrive and install, recheck. Or I could leave the one intake valve clearance at 009" ( a tad fat) thinking it will tighten with some more miles and fall into spec and, use copper RTV and make a gasket for the cam chain tensioner and button it up. I'm leaning towards the first scenario > > > Noticed the factory used a copper washer for the tensioner adjustor bolt so I'll anneal it before final fitting > > > Anyways, thoughts from the Borg?=:-) > > > > > Jake > Reddick Fla. > To doubt one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man. Don't defend past actions; what is right today may be wrong tomorrow. Don't be consistent; consistency is the refuge of fools. > > --H. G. Rickover > > > > > http://www.shakinjake.blogspot.com/ >

[Thomas Komjathy]

I have used Hylemar (forgot how to spell it) on the cam-chain tensioner with no problems with leaking. It is a non pressurized application, so it works fine. TK [b]From:[/b] sh8knj8kster [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Sun, March 28, 2010 12:22:01 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: Seeking WOTL-Jake's 1st KLR valve inspection/adjustment  

--- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, "sh8knj8kster" wrote: > Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. ~~~~(((typo) )) I meant to say, it's *not* re-useable. Anyone here forego the oem paper tensioner gasket and use copper RTV instead?.... and what about the .001" *fat* clearance, re-shim it or let it go? good ideas or bad ideas? what say you Jake Reddick Fla. "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." - Anon. http://www.shakinja ke.blogspot. com/ > > I mentioned in another post I was doing my 08' KLR motor's first valve inspection at 10 K miles and I found all four valves out, was/am going to shim with the prerequiste shims to get each clearance to the widest acceptable value > > > had to order 3 shims per my calculations and use one of the OEM shims to shim one of the out of spec valves. Got the 3 shims Sat. (thanks Fred), installed them...3 out of the 4 are spot on. Both exhaust clearances are 10 thou now and one of the two intake valve clearances is 8 thou but the other intake is 9 thou with the calculated shim. Let me splain' this one out of spec clearance- > > > Originally checked, found to be at .004", shim the factory used was 245 (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic). Empirical math calculations sez I need a 235 shim to get the clearance to .008". That's the size I installed (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic), but this valve clearance is at .009" now (I trippled checked) > > > When I measured this clearance originally, only the .004" guage would fit, I tried the .005" feeler guage and it would not go > > > Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. FWIW, I did not remove the cam chain tensioner before removing any of the shims. I removed the cam holder caps on the right side (both camshafts), backed out the cap bolts of the cam shaft caps next to the sprockets, leaving them threaded in 2 tunrs of threads so the caps stay put, thereby having enough vertical movement of the camshafts on the left side to lift up enough to get the left shims in and out...yet I removed the cam chain tensioner (I'm repeating myself) before installing the cam shafts after fitting the new shims > > > After installing the new shims, removing the tensioner and re-fitting camshaft cap holders (all four), I carefully inspected how these caps fit in relation to the surface they seat against. Everything fit well, nothing fit tight, nothing bound up, I finger tightened the nuts, double checked the fit and re-torqued to 75" lbs, spun the rotor bolt/crank at least 2 revolutions CCW and checked my clearances which I mentioned > > > The way I see it, i order and wait for a 240 shim to replace the 235 shim and order a new (probably 2) cam chain tensioner gasket too, wait for these parts to arrive and install, recheck. Or I could leave the one intake valve clearance at 009" ( a tad fat) thinking it will tighten with some more miles and fall into spec and, use copper RTV and make a gasket for the cam chain tensioner and button it up. I'm leaning towards the first scenario > > > Noticed the factory used a copper washer for the tensioner adjustor bolt so I'll anneal it before final fitting > > > Anyways, thoughts from the Borg?=:-) > > > > > Jake > Reddick Fla. > To doubt one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man. Don't defend past actions; what is right today may be wrong tomorrow. Don't be consistent; consistency is the refuge of fools. > > --H. G. Rickover > > > > > http://www.shakinja ke.blogspot. com/ >

[Jeff Saline]

Jake, My suggestion is to get some gasket paper from the local auto parts store and make one. It's not a critical thickness since it's self adjusting. I'd probably use 1/16" thick paper and not use any sealant. I would reshim the valve that is over tolerance by 0.001". Best, Jeff Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:22:01 -0000 "sh8knj8kster" writes:

>

SNIP

> ~~~~(((typo))) I meant to say, it's *not* re-useable. Anyone here > forego the oem paper tensioner gasket and use copper RTV > instead?....and what about the .001" *fat* clearance, re-shim it or > let it go? good ideas or bad ideas? what say you > > Jake

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[sh8knj8kster]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Komjathy wrote:

> > I have used Hylemar (forgot how to spell it) on the cam-chain tensioner with no problems with leaking. It is a non pressurized application, so it works fine. > > TK >

~~~~Thanks for the suggestion Thom, I'm still throwing it up in the air what to use. I have some 1 mm gasket material from another project. Liquid gasket maker is much easier though...I'm going to have to kick this one around Jake Reddick Fla. "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." - Anon. http://www.shakinjake.blogspot.com/

> > > > > ________________________________ > From: sh8knj8kster > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, March 28, 2010 12:22:01 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Seeking WOTL-Jake's 1st KLR valve inspection/adjustment > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, "sh8knj8kster" wrote: > > > Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. > > ~~~~(((typo) )) I meant to say, it's *not* re-useable. Anyone here forego the oem paper tensioner gasket and use copper RTV instead?.... and what about the .001" *fat* clearance, re-shim it or let it go? good ideas or bad ideas? what say you > > Jake > Reddick Fla. > "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." - Anon. > > http://www.shakinja ke.blogspot. com/ > > > > > I mentioned in another post I was doing my 08' KLR motor's first valve inspection at 10 K miles and I found all four valves out, was/am going to shim with the prerequiste shims to get each clearance to the widest acceptable value > > > > > > had to order 3 shims per my calculations and use one of the OEM shims to shim one of the out of spec valves. Got the 3 shims Sat. (thanks Fred), installed them...3 out of the 4 are spot on. Both exhaust clearances are 10 thou now and one of the two intake valve clearances is 8 thou but the other intake is 9 thou with the calculated shim. Let me splain' this one out of spec clearance- > > > > > > Originally checked, found to be at .004", shim the factory used was 245 (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic). Empirical math calculations sez I need a 235 shim to get the clearance to .008". That's the size I installed (as marked, I didn't verify with a mic), but this valve clearance is at .009" now (I trippled checked) > > > > > > When I measured this clearance originally, only the .004" guage would fit, I tried the .005" feeler guage and it would not go > > > > > > Something else... when removing the cam chain tensioner before re-installing the camshafts, I tore up the paper gasket, it's re-useable. FWIW, I did not remove the cam chain tensioner before removing any of the shims. I removed the cam holder caps on the right side (both camshafts), backed out the cap bolts of the cam shaft caps next to the sprockets, leaving them threaded in 2 tunrs of threads so the caps stay put, thereby having enough vertical movement of the camshafts on the left side to lift up enough to get the left shims in and out...yet I removed the cam chain tensioner (I'm repeating myself) before installing the cam shafts after fitting the new shims > > > > > > After installing the new shims, removing the tensioner and re-fitting camshaft cap holders (all four), I carefully inspected how these caps fit in relation to the surface they seat against. Everything fit well, nothing fit tight, nothing bound up, I finger tightened the nuts, double checked the fit and re-torqued to 75" lbs, spun the rotor bolt/crank at least 2 revolutions CCW and checked my clearances which I mentioned > > > > > > The way I see it, i order and wait for a 240 shim to replace the 235 shim and order a new (probably 2) cam chain tensioner gasket too, wait for these parts to arrive and install, recheck. Or I could leave the one intake valve clearance at 009" ( a tad fat) thinking it will tighten with some more miles and fall into spec and, use copper RTV and make a gasket for the cam chain tensioner and button it up. I'm leaning towards the first scenario > > > > > > Noticed the factory used a copper washer for the tensioner adjustor bolt so I'll anneal it before final fitting > > > > > > Anyways, thoughts from the Borg?=:-) > > > > > > > > > > Jake > > Reddick Fla. > > To doubt one's own first principles is the mark of a civilized man. Don't defend past actions; what is right today may be wrong tomorrow. Don't be consistent; consistency is the refuge of fools. > > > > --H. G. Rickover > > > > > > > > > > http://www.shakinja ke.blogspot. com/ > > >

[Jeff Saline]

Jake, The 1mm gasket material is 0.003937" thick which is less than 1/16" and more than 1/32". It should work fine. Hylomar won't hurt anything either. Don't forget to reset the cam chain tensioner before reinstallation. Best, Jeff Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:35:44 -0000 "sh8knj8kster" writes:

> > ~~~~Thanks for the suggestion Thom, I'm still throwing it up in the > air what to use. I have some 1 mm gasket material from another > project. Liquid gasket maker is much easier though...I'm going to > have to kick this one around > > Jake

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[sh8knj8kster]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote:

> > Jake, > > My suggestion is to get some gasket paper from the local auto parts store > and make one. It's not a critical thickness since it's self adjusting. > I'd probably use 1/16" thick paper and not use any sealant. > > I would reshim the valve that is over tolerance by 0.001". > > Best, > > Jeff > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >

~~~~Jeff, The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to me to just order the next larger shim and call it done. I think in the grand scheme of things, being .001" over in this 10 K mile motor, I probably wouldn't do any harm leaving what I have there in place as in all likelihood, it will tighten itself in spec sooner rather than later. But, as anal as I can sometimes be, I may just worry too much so I'll install the next fatter shim and you'll know the next valve clearance inspection, I'll need to re-install the 235 shim I'm going to remove for this inspection=:-) I've already phoned Fred and he is sending me the 240 shim...I'm looking at it this way, I have the luxury of not having to skip doing it right About making a gasket, as I replied to Thom, I have 1 mm gasket material, and I have liquid gasket (Copper RTV). the only thing I have against making a gasket is, the material I have is pretty stiff, cutting the outside will be simple using scissors but making the center hole...I spose I could use my exacto knife...had it out recently for something else, would hate to get RTV into the motor so, I am leaning towards cobbling up a gasket For sure, if I make my own gasket, I'll make it so I will be happy enough with my results, I wont be afraid to leave it in there. Having said that, I'm having Fred's Kawi dealer drop ship me a couple new OEM gaskets...which leads into a discussion as to why remove the body in the first place and why not only remove the center bolt and spring of the cam chai9n tensioner only. the one good argument I can make for removing the entire tensioner is, being able to have the part in your hand to verify it is all intact and in working order. How anal is that?=:-) Jake Reddick Fla. "There's a fine line between hobby and mental illness." - Anon. http://www.shakinjake.blogspot.com/

> On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:22:01 -0000 "sh8knj8kster" > writes: > > > SNIP > > ~~~~(((typo))) I meant to say, it's *not* re-useable. Anyone here > > forego the oem paper tensioner gasket and use copper RTV > > instead?....and what about the .001" *fat* clearance, re-shim it or > > let it go? good ideas or bad ideas? what say you > > > > Jake > > . > ____________________________________________________________ > Weight Loss Program > Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=1guw8C14sV1d8-woXSX8hQAAJ1DWfJIDP-R0_NC3mMpGFS0kAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA= >

[Jeff Saline]

Jake, It makes sense to me to make the clearance right. Your valves have had about 10,000 smiles to settle in. It might take another 10,000 smiles to close that intake valve another 0.001". The reason you must remove the cam chain tensioner body is so you can reset the ratchet mechanism. Pulling the center bolt removes tension from the ratchet mechanism but doesn't allow it to be reset. If you take a good look at the mechanism while it's out I think you'll see what I'm talking about. You'll have to hold up the little block while pushing the tensioner back into the body. When you install the spring and center bolt the spring should push the tensioner away from the body. Try it in your hand before you install it to watch it work. Once you reinstall the tensioner (after you've reset it) you install the spring and center bolt. Listen carefully to hear the tensioner extend from the spring pressure. If you don't hear the clicks from the ratchet do it again. If you still don't hear the clicks of the ratchet pull the body and inspect and test it to make sure the spring can move the tensioner. Then reset it, reinstall and try again. If you still don't hear the clicks of the ratchet mechanism when you install the spring and center bolt either get help, turn down the radio, turn up your hearing aid or clean your ears. : ) If I was making a gasket I'd use heavy scissors on the outside and an exacto knife on the center hole. If the hole really needed to be round I'd consider making a punch out of some copper pipe if it was about the correct diameter. Best, Jeff Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:56:09 -0000 "sh8knj8kster" writes:

> >~~~~Jeff, The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to me > to just order the next larger shim and call it done. I think in the > grand scheme of things, being .001" over in this 10 K mile motor, I > probably wouldn't do any harm leaving what I have there in place as > in all likelihood, it will tighten itself in spec sooner rather than > later. But, as anal as I can sometimes be, I may just worry too > much so I'll install the next fatter shim and you'll know the next > valve clearance inspection, I'll need to re-install the 235 shim I'm > going to remove for this inspection=:-) I've already phoned Fred > and he is sending me the 240 shim...I'm looking at it this way, I > have the luxury of not having to skip doing it right > > > About making a gasket, as I replied to Thom, I have 1 mm gasket > material, and I have liquid gasket (Copper RTV). the only thing I > have against making a gasket is, the material I have is pretty > stiff, cutting the outside will be simple using scissors but making > the center hole...I spose I could use my exacto knife...had it out > recently for something else, would hate to get RTV into the motor > so, I am leaning towards cobbling up a gasket > > > For sure, if I make my own gasket, I'll make it so I will be happy > enough with my results, I wont be afraid to leave it in there. > Having said that, I'm having Fred's Kawi dealer drop ship me a > couple new OEM gaskets...which leads into a discussion as to why > remove the body in the first place and why not only remove the > center bolt and spring of the cam chai9n tensioner only. the one > good argument I can make for removing the entire tensioner is, being > able to have the part in your hand to verify it is all intact and in > working order. How anal is that?=:-) > > > > Jake

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[leroy_cope]

Many times. Roy Cope

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "transalp 1" wrote: > > > > Anyone else here ever used a spent shell casing for a punch? > > > Just for a cigar. >