speaking of the "doo"

[W.V. Doran]

Yes ... it's on my work bench. WVDoran Scottsdale, AZ

--- On [b]Mon, 2/8/10, RobertWichert [i][/i][/b] wrote: From: RobertWichert Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey To: Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 8, 2010, 12:47 PM   Has anybody actually seen a failed doohickey, with their own eyes?  Not "I heard it thru the grapevine... "  I mean "It happened to me". I'm waiting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======== On 2/8/2010 10:57 AM, roncriswell@ sbcglobal. net wrote:   Yeah beware if you are a company that is on the media and government as a target. Exploding Pintos and Corvairs that like to go backwards hitting something or rolling at 80 mph come to mind. Still I really don't understand companies that make really good machines that don't heed early signs of warning (as in the doohickey on a KLR). This is going to cost Toyota millions probably billions. Besides, if you are on a cell phone texting, it is a severe test of multitasking if the throttle jams, to shift into nuetral and pull over. Or if the brakes fail to remember to hit the emergency brake. Remembering to pull in the clutch on a KLR and hoping that works if the engine suddely tries to lock up because of a defective design is another form of multi tasking split second decision I hope I don't have to make. Criswell On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote:   Thank You, I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message. This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back. As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall? Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987. BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote: > > Is there something about: > > 1. Apply Brakes > 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" > 3. Coast to side of road > > That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fasteddiecopeman" > To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey > > > > > > > And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! > Ed > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: > > > > Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. > > > > Stephen > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: > > > > From: roncriswell@ > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey > > To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece > > much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still....... I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. > > My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. > > Criswell > > >

[Harry Seifert]

Hi Bob, On my '99, the doohickey was in two pieces when I opened the cases at 1200 miles.  I have the pieces of at least 20 other doohickeys that I have replaced during the course of the JulianTechDays that I have hosted over the past 9 years.  Mike Colishaw has at least twice that many. So, yes , it has happened to me.  Also to Tony Cornette, Mark Bakarich,  Bob Hancock..............and my own '06.  I opened the Green Monster the day I brought it home from the dealer and the doo was dimpled by the pinch bolt, negating it's movement and the weld was cracked, too. At 2.8 miles on the odometer.  It's an easy fix.  Crap, if you can't work on your own bike, perhaps you shouldn't be riding!  KLR's are not the cutting edge of engineering or sophistication.  Not quite as stone-age as my son's Panonia or my BSA's, but it is a very simple bike to work on and the known troubles and issues have been satisfactorily solved for the mechanically competent. photos on request. Buddy

On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:47 AM, RobertWichert wrote: Has anybody actually seen a failed doohickey, with their own eyes?  Not "I heard it thru the grapevine..."  I mean "It happened to me". I'm waiting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068  ======================================================== On 2/8/2010 10:57 AM, roncriswell@... wrote:Yeah beware if you are a company that is on the media and government as a target. Exploding Pintos and Corvairs that like to go backwards hitting something or rolling at 80 mph come to mind. Still I really don't understand companies that make really good machines that don't heed early signs of warning (as in the doohickey on a KLR). This is going to cost Toyota millions probably billions. Besides, if you are on a cell phone texting, it is a severe test of multitasking if the throttle jams, to shift into nuetral and pull over. Or if the brakes fail to remember to hit the emergency brake. Remembering to pull in the clutch on a KLR and hoping that works if the engine suddely tries to lock up because of a defective design is another form of multi tasking split second decision I hope I don't have to make.

Criswell On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote:  Thank You, I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message. This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back. As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard.  Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall? Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987. BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury jeff@... wrote: > > Is there something about:  >  > 1. Apply Brakes  > 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC"  > 3. Coast to side of road  >  > That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s?  >  > -Jeff Khoury  >  >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "fasteddiecopeman"   > To: "DSN KLR650"   > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific  > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey  >  >  >  >  >  >  > And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES!  > Ed  >  > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote:  > >  > > Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath.  > >  > > Stephen  > >  > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote:  > >  > > From: roncriswell@   > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey  > > To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group"  DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer"   > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece  > > much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still....... I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly.  > > My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now.  > > Criswell  > > >

[Bogdan Swider]

Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey Can’t remember the exact numbers. A couple of broken levers and number ( 7?) of broken springs should be close. Bogdan

On 2/8/10 12:47 PM, "RobertWichert" robert@...> wrote:

        Has anybody actually seen a failed doohickey, with their own eyes? Not "I heard it thru the grapevine..." I mean "It happened to me". I'm waiting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ======================================================== On 2/8/2010 10:57 AM, roncriswell@... wrote: [quote]     Yeah beware if you are a company that is on the media and government as a target. Exploding Pintos and Corvairs that like to go backwards hitting something or rolling at 80 mph come to mind. Still I really don't understand companies that make really good machines that don't heed early signs of warning (as in the doohickey on a KLR). This is going to cost Toyota millions probably billions. Besides, if you are on a cell phone texting, it is a severe test of multitasking if the throttle jams, to shift into nuetral and pull over. Or if the brakes fail to remember to hit the emergency brake. Remembering to pull in the clutch on a KLR and hoping that works if the engine suddely tries to lock up because of a defective design is another form of multi tasking split second decision I hope I don't have to make.       Criswell     On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote:       Thank You,   I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message.   This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back.   As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. Very scary. America are you shocked. of course!   I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall?   Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987.   BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's.   --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , Jeff Khoury  wrote: > > Is there something about: > > 1. Apply Brakes > 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" > 3. Coast to side of road > > That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fasteddiecopeman" > To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey > > > > > > > And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! > Ed > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: > > > > Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. > > > > Stephen > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: > > > > From: roncriswell@ > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey > > To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece > > much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still.......I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. > > My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. > > Criswell > > >          

      [/quote]    

[Harry Seifert]

You forgot the first, which catapulted an IDIOT into the national spotlight..........Ralph Nader and the GM Corvair. What about the Pinto bombs, the Mavericks that the front ends fell off of? The GM Vegas that would drop a transmission at the wink of an eye?? You called out the Exploder. Responded to enough fatalities in those to order my FD to get rid of the two that we had as utility rigs. BTW, the guy was driving the Lexus loaner and was a ten veteran of the California Highway Patrol. The Lexus had a "keyless" ignition and he hadn't been told how to do an emergency shut off of the motor. He had less than a quarter mile, prolly less than 8 seconds to get the thing under control. Take a stopwatch, an unfamiliar car with keyless ignition. a 300+ hp motor at full tilt and heavy traffic and see how fast you can get the vehicle stopped. He didn't take out any other vehicles of pedestrians. Unfortunately, his daughter, wife and brother in law were lost as well.

On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote: > Thank You, > > I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message. > > This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back. > > As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. > Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! > > I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall? > > Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. > I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987. > > BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's. > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote: >> >> Is there something about: >> >> 1. Apply Brakes >> 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" >> 3. Coast to side of road >> >> That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? >> >> -Jeff Khoury >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "fasteddiecopeman" >> To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! >> Ed >> >> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: >>> >>> Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. >>> >>> Stephen >>> >>> --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: >>> >>> From: roncriswell@ >>> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey >>> To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" >>> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece >>> much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still.......I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. >>> My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. >>> Criswell >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

One of my Dad's friends had the classic Corvair wreck, rear end came around and flipped the car breaking his neck and he died a few years later from the complications. How Porsche, VW and Corvair thought hanging the engine out past the rear axle was a good idea, I will never know. What about the Vega motor that you would change like spark plugs? My brotherinlaw had one and got real good at pulling engines. Or the classic, the GM gasoline motor they made into a diesel dropping cranks out of engines with less than 5000 miles. And they wonder why we all went to Toyotas? There was a wreck of either an Avalon or Lexus in Southlake TX a month or 2 ago where the car flipped and landed upside down in a pond after running off the road (killing 4 people) that they are now wondering if it was because of a stuck throttle. Seems like it has happened enough for the company needing to be really on top of it. In the end though, it is up to the owner of what ever they are driving or riding to pay close attention to maintenance and periodic inspection of tires, brakes etc. Remember when all the Firestone tires were blowing out and killing people? Seems like it was mostly low pressure causing a lot of it. I had a Suburban at the time with Goodyear tires. Coming back from Austin once on i-35, I heard a noise like something hitting the fender well and saw chunks of black stuff hitting the road. I though maybe it was one of our cell phones left on the roof but wasn't. I drove back at my usual 80 mph and drove around all week on the freeway noticing a shimmy and vibration. I took it to my tire guy and he showed me a chunk of the Goodyear about 4 x 10 inches missing. I rode probably 200 - 400 miles on cord.....nothing but cord at 70 -80 mph. When I was 18 years old I drove my 57 Chevy to California on recap tires at 80 - 90 mph. There is a God. But....when I inspected my doohickey on the KLR, I was greatly surprised it was broken because it wasn't running weird or vibrating or anything. Apparently there was still enough there to keep it on the shaft, but that was not going to hold like that much longer. In my opinion. Criswell 

On Feb 8, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Harry Seifert wrote:   You forgot the first, which catapulted an IDIOT into the national spotlight... .......Ralph Nader and the GM Corvair. What about the Pinto bombs, the Mavericks that the front ends fell off of? The GM Vegas that would drop a transmission at the wink of an eye?? You called out the Exploder. Responded to enough fatalities in those to order my FD to get rid of the two that we had as utility rigs. BTW, the guy was driving the Lexus loaner and was a ten veteran of the California Highway Patrol. The Lexus had a "keyless" ignition and he hadn't been told how to do an emergency shut off of the motor. He had less than a quarter mile, prolly less than 8 seconds to get the thing under control. Take a stopwatch, an unfamiliar car with keyless ignition. a 300+ hp motor at full tilt and heavy traffic and see how fast you can get the vehicle stopped. He didn't take out any other vehicles of pedestrians. Unfortunately, his daughter, wife and brother in law were lost as well. On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote: > Thank You, > > I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message. > > This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back. > > As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. > Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! > > I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall? > > Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. > I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987. > > BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's. > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote: >> >> Is there something about: >> >> 1. Apply Brakes >> 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" >> 3. Coast to side of road >> >> That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? >> >> -Jeff Khoury >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "fasteddiecopeman" >> To: "DSN KLR650" >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! >> Ed >> >> --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: >>> >>> Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. >>> >>> Stephen >>> >>> --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: >>> >>> From: roncriswell@ >>> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey >>> To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" >>> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece >>> much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still....... I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. >>> My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. >>> Criswell >>> >> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews. com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/ klr650faq. html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr. com/dsnklr650Yah oo! Groups Links > > >

[Thomas Komjathy]

I've seen two of them on both my KLRs [b]From:[/b] RobertWichert [b]Cc:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Mon, February 8, 2010 2:47:19 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey   Has anybody actually seen a failed doohickey, with their own eyes?  Not "I heard it thru the grapevine... "  I mean "It happened to me". I'm waiting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========

On 2/8/2010 10:57 AM, roncriswell@... wrote:   Yeah beware if you are a company that is on the media and government as a target. Exploding Pintos and Corvairs that like to go backwards hitting something or rolling at 80 mph come to mind. Still I really don't understand companies that make really good machines that don't heed early signs of warning (as in the doohickey on a KLR). This is going to cost Toyota millions probably billions. Besides, if you are on a cell phone texting, it is a severe test of multitasking if the throttle jams, to shift into nuetral and pull over. Or if the brakes fail to remember to hit the emergency brake. Remembering to pull in the clutch on a KLR and hoping that works if the engine suddely tries to lock up because of a defective design is another form of multi tasking split second decision I hope I don't have to make. Criswell On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote:   Thank You, I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message. This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back. As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall? Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987. BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury jeff@... wrote: > > Is there something about: > > 1. Apply Brakes > 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" > 3. Coast to side of road > > That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fasteddiecopeman" > To: "DSN KLR650" > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey > > > > > > > And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! > Ed > > --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: > > > > Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. > > > > Stephen > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: > > > > From: roncriswell@ > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey > > To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece > > much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still....... I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. > > My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. > > Criswell > > >

[transalp 1]

The Explorer/Firestone fiasco was a weird mess that I saw differently than the lawyers & media. The claim was the tires didn't have a sufficiant # of plies and could fail. My take on the problem? They built SUVs with the strength, weight and power of a pickup truck and sold them to soccer Moms that expected a ride all soft & happy like a station wagon or car. You can only soften up the suspension so much before that higher center of gravity back to haunt you in a bad case of weaves and wobbles. What to do? What do do? Ford figured it out by equipping the vehicle with suitably stout light-duty truck tires and then specified a tire pressure right on the verge of being too low to give back some of the ride quality. Iirc, it was like 28psi. That's nuts in a 2-3 ton vehicle. Well, the owners didn't watch the tire pressure as closely as they should, the tires got too low and on the highway began generating serious internal heat. Next thing you know, a tire degraded and gave out. It doesn't take long, either. BOOM! Accident. eddie

> [Original Message] > From: klr6501995 > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 2/8/2010 12:31:23 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey > > Thank You, > > I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a

same topic message.

> > This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer

"problem" a few years back.

> > As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or

"20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard.

> Very scary. America are you shocked. of course! > > I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story

didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall?

> > Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. > I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save

my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987.

> > BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry

roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's.

> >

[RobertWichert]

More broken springs than broken doohickies.  Interesting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

On 2/8/2010 12:30 PM, Bogdan Swider wrote:   Can’t remember the exact numbers. A couple of broken levers and number ( 7?) of broken springs should be close. Bogdan On 2/8/10 12:47 PM, "RobertWichert" robert@wichert. org> wrote: [quote]         Has anybody actually seen a failed doohickey, with their own eyes?  Not "I heard it thru the grapevine..."  I mean "It happened to me". I'm waiting. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======== On 2/8/2010 10:57 AM, roncriswell@ sbcglobal. net wrote:       Yeah beware if you are a company that is on the media and government as a target. Exploding Pintos and Corvairs that like to go backwards hitting something or rolling at 80 mph come to mind. Still I really don't understand companies that make really good machines that don't heed early signs of warning (as in the doohickey on a KLR). This is going to cost Toyota millions probably billions. Besides, if you are on a cell phone texting, it is a severe test of multitasking if the throttle jams, to shift into nuetral and pull over. Or if the brakes fail to remember to hit the emergency brake. Remembering to pull in the clutch on a KLR and hoping that works if the engine suddely tries to lock up because of a defective design is another form of multi tasking split second decision I hope I don't have to make.       Criswell     On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:30 AM, klr6501995 wrote:         Thank You,   I'm so glad that this thread started as I have been wanting to post a same topic message.   This is really starting to feel like the firestone/ford explorer "problem" a few years back.   As a media watcher (to much tv) this topic got nasty when a "48 hours" or "20/20" did a re-enactment of a family getting themselves killed with a stuck accelerator. But the MAN of the family was recorded on a 911 call pleading for help as his car wouldn't stop. They pleaded for help, And the collision and OMG, crash sounds were heard. Very scary. America are you shocked. of course!   I'm sure I'm missing something. But from the very begining of the story didn't we on the list and the rest of America who believe in self responsibility "predict" the media/govt response to the toyato recall?   Yes! I have had a throttle stick in a car and motorcycle. I damn well knew that if I could call 911 and yap for help I could save my ass before the call. 86 ford escort hatchback- klr6501987.   BTW kenda 270's made me leave skid marks in my drawers on wet and dry roads. Like them off road. But Avon gripsters never leave marks on roads and I have been able to conquer the same off road conditions that I did with k270's.   --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com , Jeff Khoury jeff@...  wrote: > > Is there something about: > > 1. Apply Brakes > 2. Turn key from "ON" to "ACC" > 3. Coast to side of road > > That I'm missing? Isn't that in every driver's ed. course since the 1950s? > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fasteddiecopeman" > To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com > > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2010 10:19:22 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey > > > > > > > And, by the way, the latest issue of either "Automobile" or "Car and Driver" has an article wherein they tested several Toyotas, and were able to stop in very close to normal distances, with WIDE OPEN THROTTLES AGAINST FULL BRAKES! > Ed > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com , Stephen Grisanti wrote: > > > > Good luck on all those points, but the Toyota incident involves a brand that is one of the national symbols of Japan and a high-profile product that affects millions of customers in easily dramatized life and death situations (Unintended acceleration! No brakes!). The humble KLR, by comparison, merely destroys its engine due to a manufacturing flaw that has never been officially addressed by the factory and it only affects a relative few, insignificant members of the motoring public who don't even buy "real" vehicles. Broken toys, guys. Don't hold your breath. > > > > Stephen > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, roncriswell@ wrote: > > > > From: roncriswell@ > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Toyota & KLR doohickey > > To: "Billy Brooks" , CurtisDrew@, "Don & Jewel Gil" , "GARY PATTERSON" , "Fred Hink" , "KLR Group" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com >, "Michael McSpadden" , "rocky heuer" > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 8:00 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was reading an article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about Toyota's big problem with it's accelerators and Prius brakes. It was interesting in the article that how the most successful car company in recent years both in quality and safety has let this happen. The article itself speculated that it may be a cultural issue with the Japanese in that it is considered a no no to question authority or admit mistakes. How this relates to our motorcycle is we have known and Kawasaki have known for years about the problem with doohickey breakage and spring breakage on an otherwise very reliable motorcycle. The doohickey on the new KLR is stronger but I have heard they still break. I still wonder where that 3/8 inch piece of my doohickey wound up on my '99 KLR. I don't really want that chunk to work itself free from where it might be and suddenly surprise me at 75 mph by locking up the engine. You would think Kawasaki would have made a stronger piece > > much earlier than it did. I have ridden Japanese bikes and cars since 1968 and they have been proven to be the most reliable and trouble free machines I have owned. But still....... I think the Wall Street Journal article does have merit. I still would like for the Japanese to own up to their war crimes with especially China,Korea and other places that they really have never really done. Instead they ask why did we drop the bomb? It ended the war.......quickly. > > My wife works for a company that runs numerous car dealerships. The number one dealer for them for years has been their Toyota dealership. It is dead in the water right now. > > Criswell > > >          

      [/quote]    

[Bogdan Swider]

Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey Yeah I remember – I think ? Wasn’t that inspection performed in the Campground in Moab ? With Jake and me in attendance ? I remember the way the lever looked but wasn’t the spring also gone ? Bogdan

[quote] But....when I inspected my doohickey on the KLR, I was greatly surprised it was broken because it wasn't running weird or vibrating or anything. Apparently there was still enough there to keep it on the shaft, but that was not going to hold like that much longer. In my opinion. Criswell

[/quote]

[Bogdan Swider]

Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Toyota & KLR doohickey

[quote] When I was 18 years old I drove my 57 Chevy to California on recap tires at 80 - 90 mph. There is a God.

For a little while I drove a moving truck for a small outfit in New York City. We were on the interstate, returning with a full load of furniture from Boston when one of the front tires blew. Managed to pull over safely. Upon inspection it was revealed that our cheap boss installed recap tires. Not good for a moving truck. Bogdan [/quote]