looking for trail riders

[dan.hinsch]

Hi everyone, I put a number of highway miles on my bike this week and I noticed that when I was at around 70 mph if I would move my feet to the passenger pegs I would get a substantial wobble. Not really violent movement but it was substantial movement about 2 sweeps per second and I am positive it was alarming to other traffic. I have a 3 gallon aux fuel tank on the rear rack and Touratech panniers. It did not matter if I was at full fuel or empty it always happened. I could set full forward or all the way back in the seat with no issues at all. It was only the act of resting my feet on the rear pegs that caused it. I can start it by moving only my feet and stop it just by putting my feet back on the rider pegs with no other body movement at all. I know its trying to tell me something but we spent a number of hours discussing it and I am not getting the message. Dan Hinsch A-16

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "dan.hinsch" wrote:

> > Hi everyone, > I put a number of highway miles on my bike this week and I noticed that when I was at around 70 mph if I would move my feet to the passenger pegs I would get a substantial wobble. Not really violent movement but it was substantial movement about 2 sweeps per second and I am positive it was alarming to other traffic. > > I have a 3 gallon aux fuel tank on the rear rack and Touratech panniers. It did not matter if I was at full fuel or empty it always happened. I could set full forward or all the way back in the seat with no issues at all. It was only the act of resting my feet on the rear pegs that caused it. I can start it by moving only my feet and stop it just by putting my feet back on the rider pegs with no other body movement at all. > > I know its trying to tell me something but we spent a number of hours discussing it and I am not getting the message. >

It could be a lot of things, but my first guess would be excessive rear spring sag/insufficient preload. The addition of touring luggage will tend to destabilize a lot of bikes. I suspect a combination of too much weight too far to the rear, and some unpredictable aerodynamic effects due to the upright riding position and the effect of air on top box or saddlebags. Your rig is probably marginally stable until you move your feet back. I have no idea if it is a weight or wind, but I bet if you stiffen up the rear, the wobble will calm down. Loose steering stem bearings is another likely cause, and there is a whole slew of assembly issues that could contribute as well: wheel alignment, axle torque, wheel bearing, swing arm bearings and more. But if you have not yet jacked up your rear preload to get your sag close to three inches, it's very easy to try that first.

[Jeff Saline]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:05:30 -0000 "dan.hinsch" writes:

> Hi everyone, > I put a number of highway miles on my bike this week and I noticed > that when I was at around 70 mph if I would move my feet to the > passenger pegs I would get a substantial wobble. Not really violent > movement but it was substantial movement about 2 sweeps per second > and I am positive it was alarming to other traffic. > > I have a 3 gallon aux fuel tank on the rear rack and Touratech > panniers. It did not matter if I was at full fuel or empty it > always happened. I could set full forward or all the way back in > the seat with no issues at all. It was only the act of resting my > feet on the rear pegs that caused it. I can start it by moving only > my feet and stop it just by putting my feet back on the rider pegs > with no other body movement at all. > > I know its trying to tell me something but we spent a number of > hours discussing it and I am not getting the message. > > Dan Hinsch > A-16

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Dan, My wild guess is you've got too much weight over or behind the rear axle. I'm gonna guess you're a big fella and use the rear portion of the seat more than the very front. Moving your feet to the rear pegs just helps move even more weight over or behind the rear axle making the front too light. I think Jud is also on to something with comments about the steering head bearings and rear suspension adjustments. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT . ____________________________________________________________ Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTIqYwjAyy4djg3xYoI07Rodh4JKh0Ev8YNqkSOmbtEGAvoH2Gyyac/

[Randall Marbach]

I would add to the following recommendations.. to check your rear shock damper setting. I lost the fluid out my rear shock with a heavier after market spring and the bike turned into a bucking bronco. Randy from Burbank ________________________________ From: Jud Jones To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:20:44 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats bike trying to tell me - wobble.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "dan.hinsch" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I put a number of highway miles on my bike this week and I noticed that when I was at around 70 mph if I would move my feet to the passenger pegs I would get a substantial wobble. Not really violent movement but it was substantial movement about 2 sweeps per second and I am positive it was alarming to other traffic. > > I have a 3 gallon aux fuel tank on the rear rack and Touratech panniers. It did not matter if I was at full fuel or empty it always happened. I could set full forward or all the way back in the seat with no issues at all. It was only the act of resting my feet on the rear pegs that caused it. I can start it by moving only my feet and stop it just by putting my feet back on the rider pegs with no other body movement at all. > > I know its trying to tell me something but we spent a number of hours discussing it and I am not getting the message. > It could be a lot of things, but my first guess would be excessive rear spring sag/insufficient preload. The addition of touring luggage will tend to destabilize a lot of bikes. I suspect a combination of too much weight too far to the rear, and some unpredictable aerodynamic effects due to the upright riding position and the effect of air on top box or saddlebags. Your rig is probably marginally stable until you move your feet back. I have no idea if it is a weight or wind, but I bet if you stiffen up the rear, the wobble will calm down. Loose steering stem bearings is another likely cause, and there is a whole slew of assembly issues that could contribute as well: wheel alignment, axle torque, wheel bearing, swing arm bearings and more. But if you have not yet jacked up your rear preload to get your sag close to three inches, it's very easy to try that first. ------------------------------------ List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dan.hinsch]

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far both on and off list. I realize that I am not supposed to use the passenger pegs while riding but I always have used them just like I do highway pegs. I have to keep moving around while riding or I get cramped up. The saddlebags have been on since new and the fuel cell has been on for a while also. I am pretty much used to their effects. I looked at all the areas on the bike that people brought up. Subframe bolts and all the bolts on the front suspension are tight as well as suspension and engine mounts. I will borrow a torque wrench from work to re-torque them but I put a wrench on them all and they were all tight. No frame tubes are cracked that I can see. I did find that my Progressive 420 shock is flat and saggy, the damper adjuster just spins and Progressive tells me that means the air charge is gone. I lost where I wrote down the price but they can rebuild it. The tech did not seem surprised that it would need service with about 20k on it but I sure am. In fact their website suggests changing shock when your tire is worn out. I will put my old shock back on for now until I can find a replacement with less miles and put a new spring on it. I am surprised that I can move my 300 lbs fore and aft on the seat with no effect but just moving my feet would make it unstable but it sure seems that way. I did a couple of 300 mile runs and a 600 mile with basically the same loading before this last endurance trip so it must be the combination of loading and the shock. Thanks for the help and I will check out any other suggestions you all come up with. Dan

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Randall Marbach wrote: > > > > I would add to the following recommendations.. to check your rear shock damper setting. I lost the fluid out my rear shock with a heavier after market spring and the bike turned into a bucking bronco. > > Randy from Burbank > > > > Snip--

[Steve Dyer]

Dan, Do your knees splay out when your booties are on the passenger pegs? You could be changing some aerodynamics. Steve in Norman, OK ----------------

----- Original Message ----- From: "dan.hinsch" To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:48 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats bike trying to tell me - wobble. > Thanks to everyone for the replies so far both on and off list. > > I realize that I am not supposed to use the passenger pegs while riding > but I always have used them just like I do highway pegs. I have to keep > moving around while riding or I get cramped up. > > The saddlebags have been on since new and the fuel cell has been on for a > while also. I am pretty much used to their effects. > > I looked at all the areas on the bike that people brought up. > Subframe bolts and all the bolts on the front suspension are tight as well > as suspension and engine mounts. I will borrow a torque wrench from work > to re-torque them but I put a wrench on them all and they were all tight. > No frame tubes are cracked that I can see. > > I did find that my Progressive 420 shock is flat and saggy, the damper > adjuster just spins and Progressive tells me that means the air charge is > gone. I lost where I wrote down the price but they can rebuild it. The > tech did not seem surprised that it would need service with about 20k on > it but I sure am. In fact their website suggests changing shock when your > tire is worn out. > > I will put my old shock back on for now until I can find a replacement > with less miles and put a new spring on it. > > I am surprised that I can move my 300 lbs fore and aft on the seat with no > effect but just moving my feet would make it unstable but it sure seems > that way. I did a couple of 300 mile runs and a 600 mile with basically > the same loading before this last endurance trip so it must be the > combination of loading and the shock. > > Thanks for the help and I will check out any other suggestions you all > come up with. > > Dan > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Randall Marbach wrote: >> >> >> >> I would add to the following recommendations.. to check your rear shock >> damper setting. I lost the fluid out my rear shock with a heavier >> after market spring and the bike turned into a bucking bronco. >> >> Randy from Burbank >> >> >> >> Snip-- > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote:

> It could be a lot of things, but my first guess would be excessive rear spring sag/insufficient preload.

Agreed on this one. My KLR had a wobble when heavily loaded with luggage until I put a heavier rear spring on it. If you lower the bike you will not be able to put enough preload in the rear without a heavier spring because it changes the leverage ratio on the spring. If you can't afford a heavier rear spring at the moment, slide the forks up a bit in the triple tree to shift some weight forward. Yes, this violates some fundamental rules of motorcycle handling (which implies that you should *raise* the front end, not lower it, if you want the bike to be more stable), but the KLR sorta violates all fundamental rules of motorcycle handling in the first place so ... .

[David Giuliani]

I need to get more time off-road on my A17. Is there anyone in California, Sierra mountains, say between Jackson and Sonora looking for day trips? I'm close to Mountain Ranch. I'm just a little chicken about riding alone out in the middle of BFNowhere. Dave