parts for sale in philadelphia, pa area.

[a14@att.net]

> It sounds to me like Mike T's tank was not venting properly....IIRC > the story he posted correctly. I read somewhere that color makes a > difference too, as the black tanks rec'd a different treatment. > > Where could I find the info detailing the differences of the 2 tanks > (not from Dual Star - from IMS). I have a black tank from IMS I'm very > happy with. > > All the best, > > Mike > >

I don't recall it being mentioned of pressure building due to venting. The color may have contributed due to the different formula used to attain the different color. The black plastic is the best choice for UV resistance and passing of vapor though the plastic. When I spoke to IMS about the special clorowhatever treatment that was reported I was told by the guy in charge of production that it doesn't exist. Being that the tank is roto-molded the external dimensions are identical for the Mil Spec and consumer version except that the cap thread section is changed to accept the Mil Spec cap. The consumer version uses less plastic whether to save on material cost, to increase capacity or maybe it cuts production time. Less plastic in mold = more capacity = thinner walls. What I had posted previously is the basic detail of differences based on my personal as well as posted lister experiences. I'm very happy with my black tank too. I ended up with a Mil Spec tank by mistake directly from IMS. What happened was when I ordered it I was told because I wanted black I would have to wait until they finished a production run of 500 for the military as the lighter colors are done first and darkest last otherwise the mold would have to be cleaned to avoid contaminating the color. When they made mine they neglected to change the cap part of the mold so when I received it the cap would not fit. I measured it and called them to say I have the wrong cap. The girl there said that is impossible as they only make one cap for all their tanks. She said maybe it was a defective cap and she would send me another. I told her it is clear to me the thread size is off about 1/8 inch and I ordered a military tank so please check with someone first so I get the right cap. She sent me the same wrong standard IMS cap. I called back and this time spoke to the guy in charge of production and he admitted yes the military tank uses a different cap and they must have forgotten to change the threaded part of the mold when they made mine at the end of the military production run. He put the girl back on who had been educated by the conversation so I asked her to send me the proper cap. She said they don't make it and I would have to send the tank back and they would make another one for me. I asked if she knew who makes the cap so I could get one on my own and keep the tank I have and she said the government holds the patent for it and its a military secret. Yea right. I called Dual Star and they sold me the proper cap. As I stated I have a tank with a 6.6 gallon capacity with no problem over 100F degrees. Mike Torst had a problem and I think he may have reported at one time his tank was 7.4G capacity. Almost a gallon less plastic in the mold than mine. That is why I suspect the thinner walls of the problem. You would have to admit that a thicker walled tank would be stronger. I'm glad to hear you have not had a problem with your tank. I would be interested to know what the hottest temperature you operated your bike in and what your capacity is as almost all listers with the consumer version have reported capacities near 7 gallons or better. So in summary the only differences between the Mil Spec and consumer versions of the tank are capacity (due to amount of material used in mold), cap thread size and color availability except that I believe they are now making the tanks with side vents and the 6.6 gallon tanks are only used on the gasoline bikes. The diesel bikes are using a new tank of about 4.5 gallons. Walt

[a14@att.net]

> I'm not sure if this is true anymore. The tank has been redesigned. > It now has vents on the wings. I had to wait three months to get a > tank direct from IMS. They told me the delay was due to the military > backlog and that they all came out of the same mold. The only > difference was the color. The advertised capacity is 6.6 gallons. > > Matt > >

I'm aware of the wing vents. The molds are the same but different (really) due to the differnt cap threads (the cap thread part of the mold is removable) and unless IMS now takes care to use the same volume of plastic in the consumer version as the Mil Spec version unlike in the past then you will find a capacity higher than the 6.6 advertised of which the original Mil Spec tanks capacity was exactly. I don't know how much the vents would have changed capacity but my guess is not much as the Mil Spec wings are nearly if not solid and the consumer version doesn't hold as much as people may think. See my post in response to Eagle Mike. Walt

[Eric Lee Green]

Matt wrote:

> >I have a question. The IMS tank vents via an unrestricted hose >attached to the gas cap. Lots of people install a one-way valve to >this hose to prevent gas from spilling when tipped over. My question >is this -Does this one-way valve prevent gases from escaping the tank >when needed or is it designed to allow gases to escape but not large >quantities of liquid? > >

What I have on mine is not a check valve as such. Rather, it is what appears to be a block of dense fiberglass that allows pressure equalization to happen in either direction, whether it is fuel or vapor that is venting. However, if the bike is on its side, only a small amount of fuel will vent, because then the pressure inside the tank will equalize with the pressure inside the tank (vacuum petcock, remember? And the engine is off?), and because the fiberglass becomes saturated with the fuel, it won't allow air back up into the tank to take the place of fuel in the tank. At least, this is what I theorize is happening. It matches the observed data, anyhow, which is that if I blow in the end of the hose I can blow any fuel out of it (from either end) but it doesn't appear to leak more than a couple of teaspoons of fuel if the bike is just sitting on its side. The local dirt bike shop has a cup with these little hoses selling for a few bucks sitting at their checkout counter. So we're not talking about something that's obscure or hard to find here... -E

[wannabsmooth1]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, a14@a... wrote:

> > It sounds to me like Mike T's tank was not venting properly....IIRC > > the story he posted correctly. I read somewhere that color makes a > > difference too, as the black tanks rec'd a different treatment. > > > > Where could I find the info detailing the differences of the 2 tanks > > (not from Dual Star - from IMS). I have a black tank from IMS I'm very > > happy with. > > > > All the best, > > > > Mike > > > > > > I don't recall it being mentioned of pressure building due to

venting. The color may have contributed due to the different formula used to attain the different color. The black plastic is the best choice for UV resistance and passing of vapor though the plastic. When I spoke to IMS about the special clorowhatever treatment that was reported I was told by the guy in charge of production that it doesn't exist.

> > Being that the tank is roto-molded the external dimensions are

identical for the Mil Spec and consumer version except that the cap thread section is changed to accept the Mil Spec cap. The consumer version uses less plastic whether to save on material cost, to increase capacity or maybe it cuts production time. Less plastic in mold = more capacity = thinner walls.

> > As I stated I have a tank with a 6.6 gallon capacity with no problem

over 100F degrees. Mike Torst had a problem and I think he may have reported at one time his tank was 7.4G capacity. Almost a gallon less plastic in the mold than mine. That is why I suspect the thinner walls of the problem. You would have to admit that a thicker walled tank would be stronger. I'm glad to hear you have not had a problem with your tank. I would be interested to know what the hottest temperature you operated your bike in and what your capacity is as almost all listers with the consumer version have reported capacities near 7 gallons or better.

> > So in summary the only differences between the Mil Spec and consumer

versions of the tank are capacity (due to amount of material used in mold), cap thread size and color availability except that I believe they are now making the tanks with side vents and the 6.6 gallon tanks are only used on the gasoline bikes. The diesel bikes are using a new tank of about 4.5 gallons.

> > Walt

Walt, I snipped the above some in the interest of brevity. I've some experience with roto-molding. There would have to be quite a bit of material change to eat up a gallon. When I get a chance, I'll weigh mine - empty, and maybe we can compare notes in the future. (I have an accurate digital scale.) In the past, some lister (don't know if it was this forum, sometimes CRS)had a problem with an IMS tank, had contacted them, and part of the response was "we have 2 vendors that make the tanks for us." It'd be interesting to know, for sure, the history of the molding of these tanks. I'm about moderately sure the tank distortion situation is due to pressure build up. The plastic gas cans I have have a would distort easier than the KLR tank (due to shape), but only distort and bulge when unvented. If the tank is vented, there would be no reason to bulge, which is an attempt to increase in volume......yes? I've heard in the pst of occanional quality issues with the IMS tanks, but I've always heard they replaced the defective tanks. all the best, Mike

[Matt]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "wannabsmooth1" wrote:

> > I'm about moderately sure the tank distortion situation is due to > pressure build up. > > Mike

Mike, Would you mind sharing how chose to vent your IMS tank? Matt

[wannabsmooth1]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "wannabsmooth1"

wrote:

> > > > I'm about moderately sure the tank distortion situation is due to > > pressure build up. > > > > Mike > > Mike, > > Would you mind sharing how chose to vent your IMS tank? > > Matt

I use a ball type, in-line in the hose, gravity operated check valve. I bought mine at the local aftermarket cycle parts place. When the bike is upright, the ball is not seated in the sealed position. When the bike is close to on its side, or on its side, the ball rolls into the seated position, so fuel is checked. The hose also droops slightly, which gives enough angle for the ball to seat. All the best, Mike

[wannabsmooth1]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "wannabsmooth1"

wrote:

> > > > I'm about moderately sure the tank distortion situation is due to > > pressure build up. > > > > Mike > > Mike, > > Would you mind sharing how chose to vent your IMS tank? > > Matt

I use a ball type, in-line in the hose, gravity operated check valve. I bought mine at the local aftermarket cycle parts place. When the bike is upright, the ball is not seated in the sealed position. When the bike is close to on its side, or on its side, the ball rolls into the seated position, so fuel is checked. The hose also droops slightly, which gives enough angle for the ball to seat. All the best, Mike please forgive me is this turns out to be a double post. I think I forgot to reset the addressee from the default, and posting of replies sometimes seems a little slow to yahoo these days..........

[Pat Schmid]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, a14@a... wrote:

> > Take into consideration that the Mil Spec version sold by Dual Star

is 6.6 gallons and therefore is thicker walled. The consumer version is 7 plus gallons and therefore is thinner walled. I think it may have been Pat Schmid who reported that Mike Torst had his consumer version bulging like a balloon in a 100F plus degree ride. I had my 6.6 gallon Mil Spec version out riding in 100F plus degree riding and my tank did not bulge or become flexible.

>

Mike's problem had nothing to do with thin or thinck walls. It was a combination of several things, the final insult being that the vent to his cap sealed shut - he has one of the fancy 90 degree jobs that let it fit under a tank bag. The day this happened we were in the middle of a heat wave. It was already like 110 when Mike left Vegas. He's got a vent that is not venting and he is playing around in desert around Death Valley. The tank wing that balloned was on the left side. When on the side side this is the low side, the side with all the gas. Hot day, hot gas, the plastic softens a bit. The bike had been running near the red when he parked it to walk around. The vent is not working. The heat is creating vapors inside the the tank. With no where to escape they blew the tank up like a ballon. It was something like this that lead to the orignal discovery that you could take most any plastic gas tank. Fill it with boiling water, use the vent to pump in some air pressure and you can get an extra half gallon of capacity. Pat G'ville, NV

[Pat Schmid]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote:

> > I have a question. The IMS tank vents via an unrestricted hose > attached to the gas cap. Lots of people install a one-way valve to > this hose to prevent gas from spilling when tipped over. My question > is this -Does this one-way valve prevent gases from escaping the tank > when needed or is it designed to allow gases to escape but not large > quantities of liquid? > > Matt

Matt, I have the special Moose Valve. Its a brass housing instead of plastic. It is brass so it can house a 360 degree swivel so you can loosen and tighten the cap without twisting the hose. Like all of these valves it uses a little ball to work the check valve. When the bike is standing upright, gravity keeps the ball in the open position so that the tank will vent. When the bike is on its side or upside down, the flowing gas pushes the ball into the closed position. Pat G'ville, NV

[Dirk Beer]

I'm getting ready to buy an IMS tank... just for information, here is a reply I got from them today: me:

>thanks for your reply. I'm interested in the white or black tank. Do either

of these have better characteristics as far as permeability, or UV resistance? Is a >fluorinated option available? IMS rep (who has been very helpful):

> As far as tank colors being any better than the other, the answer is no.

The only differences really between any of the two would be between a natural and one >of the colored tanks, where the natural will eventually yellow, but but you can see your fuel. As far as the solid colors, you will never seen it yellow, but you cannot >really see your fuel through it. Permeability concerned, our tanks are made with polyurethene crosslink, which is actually fairly porous so it will permeate to a >degree, but like I said, only the natural tanks will visibly yellow. We do not offer fluorination unfortunately, the best suggestion we can make is to just keep rinsing >out your tank with water after every ride to keep it up as well as possible. I hope this answered your questions. Thanks for your inquiry! Dirk -- "You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]