dead battery

[revmaaatin]

Hail, All Knowing, all seeing list, cough, This is off topic, and well, its off season with freezing rain today...and these 'tools' do rest in the tool box that I use for the KLR.... I have two hand held tools that the batteries seem to have gone South, and I suspect, are never, ever coming home again. 1. My beloved drill, the DeWalt DW991 14.4v drill, it has 13year old- - batteries--both purchased at the same time, alternated/charged faithfully--won't hold a charge for more than a few hours after full charge cycle--and the 'spin' of the drill has lost all of it zip at an indicated 'full' charge by the chargers indicator system. The drill sees on occasional use during the month, but a few times a year, it gets involved in driving 1-2-300 dry wall screws at a time; meaning, it is not abused as a carpenters friend everyday of its life. The dust buster gets used 2-3 times a week. I seem to remember that these high capacity batteries have a limited number of charge cycles. Is that true? Q.Can somebody describe a trouble shooting suggestion that will tell me the batteries have seen their last useful charge? The second tool is a Black and Decker Dustbuster that contains two 'VersaPak' Interchange Battery System, batteries. Likewise it will not go to 'full' charge anymore as well. After setting on the charger, the dust-buster, at best, will just convert electricity to noise--at a very low rpm. Q. Suggestions for testing one of those batteries? How do you know when these items are used up. I am suspicious that the cost of two batteries is = to the new cost of a dust-buster. (And I was never fond of this item....) and while we are here-- Q. Should items like these be left on their chargers? I generally keep the dust-buster on its cradle, and the off duty 14.4v battery in the charging cradle--indicating a 'holding-charge'. revmaaatin. hunkered down in South Dakota--but still deer hunting via 4X4 Suburban--one last night, tonight, regardless of the present snow storm--just NOT by KLR!

[Greg May]

Hi Rev, the quick and dirty on the batteries that you are talking about, if you know the rated output of the battery you want to test you can fully charge the battery and momentary connect it across a high wattage low resistance load while you are measuring the current the battery is able to output to the load. Simply compare the measured current with the rated output for the battery. The easier way would be to borrow a battery from someone with a similar tool and see how it works in your drill. The 18 volt DeWalts we use at work are tortured and seem to give 12 to 18 months before the performance drops off much, I still have a 7.2 volt Makita that is probably on it's 5th battery and second motor that is still ok for light jobs after probably 25 years. Here is a link that describes a lot of generic stuff on battery life in DeWalt power tools via short videos.... have a great weekend Greg http://www.dewalt.com/us/cordless/cordless_batteries/

--- On Fri, 1/9/09, revmaaatin wrote: From: revmaaatin Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR-Batteries for Hand Held tools To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, January 9, 2009, 3:46 PM Hail, All Knowing, all seeing list, cough, This is off topic, and well, its off season with freezing rain today...and these 'tools' do rest in the tool box that I use for the KLR.... I have two hand held tools that the batteries seem to have gone South, and I suspect, are never, ever coming home again. 1. My beloved drill, the DeWalt DW991 14.4v drill, it has 13year old- - batteries--both purchased at the same time, alternated/charged faithfully-- won't hold a charge for more than a few hours after full charge cycle--and the 'spin' of the drill has lost all of it zip at an indicated 'full' charge by the chargers indicator system. The drill sees on occasional use during the month, but a few times a year, it gets involved in driving 1-2-300 dry wall screws at a time; meaning, it is not abused as a carpenters friend everyday of its life. The dust buster gets used 2-3 times a week. I seem to remember that these high capacity batteries have a limited number of charge cycles. Is that true? Q.Can somebody describe a trouble shooting suggestion that will tell me the batteries have seen their last useful charge? The second tool is a Black and Decker Dustbuster that contains two 'VersaPak' Interchange Battery System, batteries. Likewise it will not go to 'full' charge anymore as well. After setting on the charger, the dust-buster, at best, will just convert electricity to noise--at a very low rpm. Q. Suggestions for testing one of those batteries? How do you know when these items are used up. I am suspicious that the cost of two batteries is = to the new cost of a dust-buster. (And I was never fond of this item....) and while we are here-- Q. Should items like these be left on their chargers? I generally keep the dust-buster on its cradle, and the off duty 14.4v battery in the charging cradle--indicating a 'holding-charge' . revmaaatin. hunkered down in South Dakota--but still deer hunting via 4X4 Suburban--one last night, tonight, regardless of the present snow storm--just NOT by KLR! __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Lou]

One other point -- very old batteries can trash new chargers. I Know This From Bitter Recent Personal Experience. Rule of thumb for many of these batteries is that a total of 700 complete cycles (deep discharge, full re-charge) constitutes a full lifetime and should trigger a replacement. Different (and newer) technologies have different and slightly larger numbers in place of 700, but not a whole lot larger. My experience is that the rule of thumb is a really good guideline. I would be very grateful to be contradicted by people whose knowledge is more recent -- mine's probably eight or ten years behind. At 08:32 PM 1/9/2009, Greg May wrote:

>Hi Rev, the quick and dirty on the batteries that you are talking about

[albatrossklr]

Right Reverend Rev, Q: Charging cycles: I do believe that all batteries have a number of cycles (charge/discharge)and many battery makers tell how many and also state that the deeper the discharge the shorter the battery life. Q: Testing: Have not found an easy way to test these kind of batteries. You could build a test jig with variable loads for them while snowbound, but it looks like you have enough evidence on these to say they are at the end of their life. Here in NC the sun is bright, wind at 5, and the dolphins are having breakfast. keep well albatross

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > Hail, > All Knowing, all seeing list, > cough, > > This is off topic, and well, its off season with freezing rain > today...and these 'tools' do rest in the tool box that I use for the > KLR.... > > I have two hand held tools that the batteries seem to have gone > South, and I suspect, are never, ever coming home again. > > 1. My beloved drill, the DeWalt DW991 14.4v drill, it has 13year old- > - batteries--both purchased at the same time, alternated/charged > faithfully--won't hold a charge for more than a few hours after full > charge cycle--and the 'spin' of the drill has lost all of it zip at > an indicated 'full' charge by the chargers indicator system. > > The drill sees on occasional use during the month, but a few times a > year, it gets involved in driving 1-2-300 dry wall screws at a time; > meaning, it is not abused as a carpenters friend everyday of its life. > The dust buster gets used 2-3 times a week. > > I seem to remember that these high capacity batteries have a limited > number of charge cycles. Is that true? > > Q.Can somebody describe a trouble shooting suggestion that will tell > me the batteries have seen their last useful charge? > > The second tool is a Black and Decker Dustbuster that contains > two 'VersaPak' Interchange Battery System, batteries. Likewise it > will not go to 'full' charge anymore as well. After setting on the > charger, the dust-buster, at best, will just convert electricity to > noise--at a very low rpm. > > Q. Suggestions for testing one of those batteries? How do you know > when these items are used up. I am suspicious that the cost of two > batteries is = to the new cost of a dust-buster. (And I was never > fond of this item....) > > and while we are here-- > > Q. Should items like these be left on their chargers? I generally > keep the dust-buster on its cradle, and the off duty 14.4v battery in > the charging cradle--indicating a 'holding-charge'. > > revmaaatin. hunkered down in South Dakota--but still deer hunting > via 4X4 Suburban--one last night, tonight, regardless of the present > snow storm--just NOT by KLR! >

[Eric Foster]

NO doubt about it, the packs are toast! Look around the net and yellow pages, there are outfits about that are monopolizing on the garbage we are sold under the guise of "rechargeable" batteries. I won two rechargeable tools. A Paslode nailgun and a CHEAP Ryobi drill. Why CHEAP? Because it came with two packs and was cheaper to replace the whole unit when the time came than to screw with packs. The NiCad tech used to make this stuff is garbage, and I'm not willing to spend what they want for Lion units. My favorite toy at this point for multiple screwing jobs (heh) is my air drill that was bought for installing picks in the bikes. Very fast, 1/4 the weight and size of a corded or cordless and never runs out of juice! When a battery pack croaks, chances are only one cell out of the several in the pack is what has failed. NiCads are only as good as the weakest, or failed, cell when it comes to capacity. Pros in the RC car circuit will buy "matched" sets of batteries, meaning that every battery in the pack has the same capacity down to the second. When a racing pack discharges, the car will shut down almost instantly, instead of slowly dying like an unmatched set. So, what that says is charge the two dustbuster packs and then take them apart. Make a test unit with a couple 1157 bulbs with all 4 elements wired in parallel. Hook up each individual cell to the test load and watch the voltage with a voltmeter. Look for a benchmark of, say, 1 volt even. Use a stopwatch and note how long it takes each cell to hit 1 volt. When you are done, trake each cell that takes the longest to reach one volt, then sort those to get the amount of cells required to make one good pack, in which each of the cells are in the closet bracket of times to hit 1 volt. You now have a race ready Dustbuster! One thing you may also try is to find the dead cells and attach then to 4 or five of the 1157's. ycle repeatedly. They may return to some form of life, but not what they once was. E -- "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you,and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, 1776

[Horton Oliphant]

My criteria for end of life, for battery packs, is when they can no longer do any useful work. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa revmaaatin wrote:

> Q.Can somebody describe a trouble shooting suggestion that will tell > me the batteries have seen their last useful charge? > >

[Harry Seifert]

Howdy, you snowbound Midwesterner......... In the back clasiifieds in Popular Mechanics there have been ads for a company that will rebuild your rechargeable batteries. I've seen a broken apart DeWalt battery pack and it contained a bunch of rechargeable C cell sized batteries soldered together in series to get the 12 volts. Our snow is pretty much gone, except fot the 2 foot snow bank out behind my shop and we are enjoying a nice, frigid (28F) Santa Ana wind storm................35-40 knot easterlies with gusts to 75 and very dry! If I can find the name of a company that can rebuild battery packs I'll post it. Buddy

> [Original Message] > From: revmaaatin > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 1/9/2009 11:46:31 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR-Batteries for Hand Held tools > > Hail, > All Knowing, all seeing list, > cough, > > This is off topic, and well, its off season with freezing rain > today...and these 'tools' do rest in the tool box that I use for the > KLR.... > > I have two hand held tools that the batteries seem to have gone > South, and I suspect, are never, ever coming home again. > > 1. My beloved drill, the DeWalt DW991 14.4v drill, it has 13year old- > - batteries--both purchased at the same time, alternated/charged > faithfully--won't hold a charge for more than a few hours after full > charge cycle--and the 'spin' of the drill has lost all of it zip at > an indicated 'full' charge by the chargers indicator system. > > The drill sees on occasional use during the month, but a few times a > year, it gets involved in driving 1-2-300 dry wall screws at a time; > meaning, it is not abused as a carpenters friend everyday of its life. > The dust buster gets used 2-3 times a week. > > I seem to remember that these high capacity batteries have a limited > number of charge cycles. Is that true? > > Q.Can somebody describe a trouble shooting suggestion that will tell > me the batteries have seen their last useful charge? > > The second tool is a Black and Decker Dustbuster that contains > two 'VersaPak' Interchange Battery System, batteries. Likewise it > will not go to 'full' charge anymore as well. After setting on the > charger, the dust-buster, at best, will just convert electricity to > noise--at a very low rpm. > > Q. Suggestions for testing one of those batteries? How do you know > when these items are used up. I am suspicious that the cost of two > batteries is = to the new cost of a dust-buster. (And I was never > fond of this item....) > > and while we are here-- > > Q. Should items like these be left on their chargers? I generally > keep the dust-buster on its cradle, and the off duty 14.4v battery in > the charging cradle--indicating a 'holding-charge'. > > revmaaatin. hunkered down in South Dakota--but still deer hunting > via 4X4 Suburban--one last night, tonight, regardless of the present > snow storm--just NOT by KLR! > > > ------------------------------------ > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[Horton Oliphant]

Interstate Battery shops will rebuild rechargeable tool packs but you don't save much money. I've checked into it several times at Intersatate in central Iowa. Maybe it would be a better deal in your area. \ Alan Henderson A13 Iowa Harry Seifert wrote:

> Howdy, you snowbound Midwesterner......... > > In the back clasiifieds in Popular Mechanics there have been ads for a > company that will rebuild your rechargeable batteries. I've seen a broken > apart DeWalt battery pack and it contained a bunch of rechargeable C cell > sized batteries soldered together in series to get the 12 volts. > > Our snow is pretty much gone, except fot the 2 foot snow bank out behind my > shop and we are enjoying a nice, frigid (28F) Santa Ana wind > storm................35-40 knot easterlies with gusts to 75 and very dry! > > If I can find the name of a company that can rebuild battery packs I'll > post it. > > Buddy

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert" wrote:

> > Howdy, you snowbound Midwesterner......... > > In the back classifieds in Popular Mechanics there have been ads

for a

> company that will rebuild your rechargeable batteries. I've seen a

broken

> apart DeWalt battery pack and it contained a bunch of rechargeable

C cell

> sized batteries soldered together in series to get the 12 volts. > > Our snow is pretty much gone, except for the 2 foot snow bank out

behind my

> shop and we are enjoying a nice, frigid (28F) Santa Ana wind > storm................35-40 knot easterlies with gusts to 75 and

very dry!

> > If I can find the name of a company that can rebuild battery packs

I'll

> post it. > > Buddy

Buddy , Greg, Lou, Terry, Eric, Alan, and others.... Thanks for all the battery input--Sounds like after 13 years of occasional use, the DeWalt will be getting new batteries. cough, and the dustbuster is 'busted'. The Dewalt is 14.4v--if other batteries fit, can they be used as well without harm? The drill specifies/placarded with 14.4vdc, 0-450/01400 RPM. Any suggestions on the EPA etal requirements for battery disposal? or is there any, other than normal landfill disposal? revmaaatin.

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert" wrote: OK- I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new dewalt battery pack (9091) I find a couple of links: http://www.ok-battery.com/search.php? keywords=DW9094&gclid=CNyhieHdhJgCFQ6jagodwTRJtg or http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=dw9091&tag=googhydr- 20&index=tools&hvadid=1101893801&ref=pd_sl_eztx22sx6_b but like everything else in the world, it involves electrickery This first link shows several replacement packs, with a twist: you are given a choice of 1500 1700 2000 2200 3000mAh Of course, my battery pack only says, 14.4v XR Pack, no milli amps. so going to the Amazon site and type in 9091 XR Pack-- The Amazon link shows: DeWalt DC9091 XRP 14.4-Volt 2.4 Amp Hour NiCad Pod Style Battery. Ac-c-k! My head is about to explode. I am thinking now that it should be the XRP as a replacement as it is 2.4a, and even I know that 2.4A is more than 3000 mAh. I believe the proper replacement is this XRP. Any other guesses? revmaaatin. who is wondering why we have to be an 'expert' in so many obscure subjects, just to survive.... Is that progress?