stalling problem.

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." wrote:

> > If they are closing large areas of riding where you are (on public > land) ... the answer for off road riders is privately owned rider > parks as we have here in North Texas. We have about 3 at last count.

We have publically-run rider parks funded by "green tag" stickers here in California, they're called "State Vehicular Areas" and we have a bunch of them. Thing is, Californians have been accustomed to having public land other than rider parks to ride in and explore. California isn't like North Texas, where all the public land was sold off to ranchers and fenced off long ago and you'll get buns full of buckshot if you go anywhere other than on pavement and where kayakers on the Red River regularly report getting fired at by ranchers irate that there's somebody paddling through their back yard. So Californians are whining, but it's not a whine that's going to get resolved by privately owned rider parks.

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. Sill called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat stuff like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since 8 years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to all people. Er.... that sucks big time. If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through private ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of that whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all over and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best and wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in Southwest Texas. Someone fired over his bow. Criswell

On Nov 15, 2008, at 11:22 AM, E.L. Green wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." > wrote: > > > > If they are closing large areas of riding where you are (on public > > land) ... the answer for off road riders is privately owned rider > > parks as we have here in North Texas. We have about 3 at last count. > > We have publically-run rider parks funded by "green tag" stickers > here in California, they're > called "State Vehicular Areas" and we have a bunch of them. Thing > is, Californians have been > accustomed to having public land other than rider parks to ride in > and explore. California > isn't like North Texas, where all the public land was sold off to > ranchers and fenced off long > ago and you'll get buns full of buckshot if you go anywhere other > than on pavement and > where kayakers on the Red River regularly report getting fired at > by ranchers irate that there's > somebody paddling through their back yard. So Californians are > whining, but it's not a whine > that's going to get resolved by privately owned rider parks. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." wrote:

> > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft.

Sill

> called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat

stuff

> like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since

8

> years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to

all

> people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through

private

> ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of

that

> whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all

over

> and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best

and

> wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in

Southwest

> Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > Criswell >

Ron, Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to navigable streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It is no longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being fired on is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner(s) on each side of the creek? Who else would have such access to private land? A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a village idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not the solution. revmaaatin.

[Jud Jones]

As an aside to this discussion, I have often wondered why Texas has almost no public land available for riding, while most Western states have huge tracts in national forests or BLM ownership. The apparent answer (no doubt familiar to you Texans) is that Texas was a sovereign nation before it became a state; it was never a territory. When it joined the U.S. it did not convey any of its publicly-owned land to the United States, which left it free to sell it to private individuals. Back to you regularly-scheduled programming.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > Sill > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > stuff > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since > 8 > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > all > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > private > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > that > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > over > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best > and > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > Southwest > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > Criswell > > > > Ron, > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to navigable > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It is no > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being fired on > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner(s) on > each side of the creek? > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a village > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > the solution. > > revmaaatin. >

[fasteddiecopeman]

When I read a Michener novel -"Texas???" - he stated that ALL land in Texas is privately owned which could explain why there're NO public riding areas, as there's NO public land. Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote: > > As an aside to this discussion, I have often wondered why Texas has almost no public land > available for riding, while most Western states have huge tracts in national forests or BLM > ownership. The apparent answer (no doubt familiar to you Texans) is that Texas was a > sovereign nation before it became a state; it was never a territory. When it joined the U.S. > it did not convey any of its publicly-owned land to the United States, which left it free to > sell it to private individuals. > Back to you regularly-scheduled programming. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > > wrote: > > > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. But ... > > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by all tax > > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a wonderful > > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > > Sill > > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to learn > > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > > stuff > > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there since > > 8 > > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > > all > > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, they > > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > > private > > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river running > > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > > that > > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 years is > > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > > over > > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our best > > and > > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > > Southwest > > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > > > Criswell > > > > > > > Ron, > > > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to navigable > > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It is no > > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being fired on > > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner(s) on > > each side of the creek? > > > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a village > > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > > the solution. > > > > revmaaatin. > > >

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Well we do have areas like Sam Houston National Forest, Davy Crockett National Forest, Angelina National Forest, Padre island National Seashore, Big Bend National Park and Guadalupe National Park where you can ride a street legal bike as long as you stick to the rules of the road or gravel / dirt road. I use to be in contact with a group down in New Waverly in The Sam Houston forest that rode regularly there with some pretty good KLR type terrain. But another option dual sport riders have in my area is up is up around Clayton (southeast) Oklahoma with fire roads through the forested hills there. Perfect for KLR's. Be forewarned, you have to stop at a convenience store there and get a permit or you will be ticketed (about $200 I think) if they catch you. Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) yesterday. Criswell

On Nov 15, 2008, at 10:33 PM, fasteddiecopeman wrote: > When I read a Michener novel -"Texas???" - he stated that ALL land > in Texas is privately > owned which could explain why there're NO public riding areas, as > there's NO public land. > Ed > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote: > > > > As an aside to this discussion, I have often wondered why Texas > has almost no public > land > > available for riding, while most Western states have huge tracts > in national forests or > BLM > > ownership. The apparent answer (no doubt familiar to you Texans) > is that Texas was a > > sovereign nation before it became a state; it was never a > territory. When it joined the > U.S. > > it did not convey any of its publicly-owned land to the United > States, which left it free to > > sell it to private individuals. > > Back to you regularly-scheduled programming. > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well by privately owned and run, nobody gets pissed at us. > But ... > > > > then again, public land is public land supposedly owned by > all tax > > > > payers, not just the Sierra Club and the like. We have a > wonderful > > > > little Wildlife Park / Range up west of Lawton Oklahoma and Ft. > > > Sill > > > > called The Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge. Great place to > learn > > > > how to rock climb on granite bolder mountain / hills with neat > > > stuff > > > > like Buffalo, Elk, Deer, Longhorns. I have been going there > since > > > 8 > > > > years old. The greenies were trying to get the park to close to > > > all > > > > people. Er.... that sucks big time. > > > > > > > > If anyone fires at you on a navigate-able water way in Texas, > they > > > > are in serious violation of the law even if it runs through > > > private > > > > ranch land. I know the law as I used to do a lot of river > running > > > > with the Downriver Club here. Of course convincing a rancher of > > > that > > > > whose family may have lived on that land for the last 150 > years is > > > > another thing. Especially if floaters are throwing beer cans all > > > over > > > > and starting grass fires. I had a friend paddling one of our > best > > > and > > > > wildest called the Devils River close to Lake Almstead in > > > Southwest > > > > Texas. Someone fired over his bow. > > > > > > > > Criswell > > > > > > > > > > Ron, > > > > > > Allowing that the folks were actually fired on-- > > > > > > Most states (probably not MA or CT (sic)) allow access to > navigable > > > streams, as long as their is water enough to float a boat. It > is no > > > longer 'public' the day the boat won't float.... > > > > > > A cure for being fired on is a 911 call on sat-phone. Being > fired on > > > is tantamount to an act of terrorism. Do you suppose they could > > > easily eliminate everyone as a suspect, except, the landowner > (s) on > > > each side of the creek? > > > > > > Who else would have such access to private land? > > > > > > A person firing on a kayak or canoe person would have to be a > village > > > idiot, wanting to give their land to the victim in tort action. > > > > > > On the other hand, a whole lot of abuse (trash/trespassing) occurs > > > along the boundaries of public access--but shooting at them is not > > > the solution. > > > > > > revmaaatin. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@..." wrote:

> Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) yesterday.

I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The folks who have them seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big-bore kits to turn it into a KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there. Yamaha also just released a street legal version of their legendary WR 250 trail bike. The Yammer is fuel-injected and has a bit more power than the stock KLX. Downside is that it's unknown how the FI will respond to an overbore kit, and the engine is all-new so it's unknown how it will hold up in the long term. Personally, a Super Sherpa would be more my speed for a lightweight trail bike to haul behind my Jeep to a riding area. Cheap, light, reliable as a mule, and about as fast (heh!). Oh, regarding the State Vehicular Areas in California, these are funded via "green stamp" stickers issued to OHV owners, and are like your private off-road parks in Texas (i.e. are land bought specifically for use as OHV parks) except the State of California takes on the liability if anybody crashes there (you could not get liability insurance for a private OHV park here in California). Some of the counties have their own dirt bike parks too, there's one in Santa Clara County here for example. So there's plenty of places to ride that are *not* BLM/USFS land here in California, it's just that folks are used to riding on BLM/USFS land and are getting upset that the enviro-weenies are taking so much of it out of circulation as "wilderness", including one road that was a road for 130 years before the enviro-weenies got it classified as "prestine wilderness" and cut off access to it. Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is that a) it's your word against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no evidence that he shot at you, and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you, you'd be tried by a jury of his neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not do anything to him. There was one old gent who shot a couple of Mexicans in the back as they walked down a public road after they'd stopped at his house and asked for a drink of water and his only response was "Honey, get the gun" at which point the Mexicans of course left and started walking down the public road again until the old gent chased them down in his pickup truck and shot them in the back, the jury of this fellow's neighbors deliberated a while and decided that the old gent had to be punished for this heinous crime of shooting a couple of Mexicans in the back so they issued him a $5,000 fine. That's Texas. That's why when I lived in Texas, I decided I wasn't going to take up kayaking after all . -E

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@"

wrote:

> > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams)

yesterday.

> > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The

folks who have them

> seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big-

bore kits to turn it into a

> KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there.

Hello Eric- It always amuses me when 'reports' of a gutless bike, like a 250. Gutless compared to what? Its a 250, not a 400, not a 650, or 900, or 950. A plain two fifty. I suppose they complained that it weighed 150#s less then a 650 as well! Most likely the owner/rider does not understand the bikes own power curve, etc. I 'herd' a pack of little bikes through an ORV park, and the kids look at the places we wanted to ride with skepticism--until I get off the KLX300, and put my nearly 200# ATGATT on a XR100R or XR70 and ride the trail or climb the hill on their bike. Makes them a believer. Not necessarily a hill-climber, but they know the bike is at least capable. A gutless 250--there is no such thing--only riders who are 'incapable' of riding a bike at ITS potential, not at the expectation of something it is not. IF they want 'more' guts, buy more HP. Their complaining is an indication of their bad judgement, not the bikes lack of heart or guts.

> Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is

that a) it's your word

> against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no

evidence that he shot at you,

> and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you, you'd

be tried by a jury of his

> neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not do

anything to him. There

> was one old gent who shot a couple of Mexicans in the back as they

walked down a public

> road after they'd stopped at his house and asked for a drink of

water and his only

> response was "Honey, get the gun" at which point the Mexicans of

course left and started

> walking down the public road again until the old gent chased them

down in his pickup

> truck and shot them in the back, the jury of this fellow's

neighbors deliberated a while and

> decided that the old gent had to be punished for this heinous crime

of shooting a couple

> of Mexicans in the back so they issued him a $5,000 fine. That's

Texas. That's why when I

> lived in Texas, I decided I wasn't going to take up kayaking after

all .

> > -E >

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been

eying

> > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in

Dallas

> > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) > yesterday. > > > > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The > folks who have them > > seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big- > bore kits to turn it into a > > KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there. > > > Hello Eric- > > It always amuses me when 'reports' of a gutless bike, like a 250. > Gutless compared to what? > Its a 250, not a 400, not a 650, or 900, or 950. A plain two

fifty.

> > I suppose they complained that it weighed 150#s less then a 650 as > well! Most likely the owner/rider does not understand the bikes

own

> power curve, etc. > > I 'herd' a pack of little bikes through an ORV park, and the kids > look at the places we wanted to ride with skepticism--until I get

off

> the KLX300, and put my nearly 200# ATGATT on a XR100R or XR70 and > ride the trail or climb the hill on their bike. Makes them a > believer. Not necessarily a hill-climber, but they know the bike

is

> at least capable. > > A gutless 250--there is no such thing--only riders who > are 'incapable' of riding a bike at ITS potential, not at the > expectation of something it is not. > > IF they want 'more' guts, buy more HP. Their complaining is an > indication of their bad judgement, not the bikes lack of heart or > guts. > > > > > > > > Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is > that a) it's your word > > against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no > evidence that he shot at you, > > and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you,

you'd

> be tried by a jury of his > > neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not

do

> anything to him.

Hi Eric, The last message got sent before I was done.... The law. sigh. The best law money can buy...sometimes....and its idots like the shooter that will add fuel to the fire to take away all our right to bear arms. IRT your word against his; you have the responsibility to report being fired upon. It becomes a matter of public record. With enough interest, it becomes a federal event, and not a local, or county controlled investigation. Pity the rancher that decides to fire upon some Marines or Soldiers on leave. There are counter-tactics for civilian snipers as well, and it does not take much imagination to see where that would lead.

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

Gutless 250 is kind of amusing rev, when I remember all the 250's and 360's I used to pass on the trail with my 100 cc Hodaka. Or the time I was showing new riders around our old riding area. One was on a KX 250 and one was on a KX 500. Both were ...... spirited 2 strokes to say the least. I had to stop and keep waiting for them to catch up on my old IT Yamaha 175. They let me ride their brand new bikes. Sure did like that 500 KX. Yee hah! Horse power is not everything on a tight trail but it sure is fun to have.l Criswell

On Nov 16, 2008, at 12:58 PM, revmaaatin wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "roncriswell@" > wrote: > > > Anyone have the Kawasaki KLX street legal 250? I have been eying > > > those for quite a while. The Cycle World bike show was in Dallas > > > yesterday. I got in debt a number of times (in my dreams) > yesterday. > > > > I've been watching the threads on advrider about the KLX 250. The > folks who have them > > seem to like them, except they complain it's pretty gutless. Big- > bore kits to turn it into a > > KLX 300 and uncork it seem to be a popular item there. > > Hello Eric- > > It always amuses me when 'reports' of a gutless bike, like a 250. > Gutless compared to what? > Its a 250, not a 400, not a 650, or 900, or 950. A plain two fifty. > > I suppose they complained that it weighed 150#s less then a 650 as > well! Most likely the owner/rider does not understand the bikes own > power curve, etc. > > I 'herd' a pack of little bikes through an ORV park, and the kids > look at the places we wanted to ride with skepticism--until I get off > the KLX300, and put my nearly 200# ATGATT on a XR100R or XR70 and > ride the trail or climb the hill on their bike. Makes them a > believer. Not necessarily a hill-climber, but they know the bike is > at least capable. > > A gutless 250--there is no such thing--only riders who > are 'incapable' of riding a bike at ITS potential, not at the > expectation of something it is not. > > IF they want 'more' guts, buy more HP. Their complaining is an > indication of their bad judgement, not the bikes lack of heart or > guts. > > > Oh, Rev - regarding Texans shooting at people -- the problem is > that a) it's your word > > against the rancher's and if he didn't hit you, you have no > evidence that he shot at you, > > and b) even if he did hit you, heck, even if he *killed* you, you'd > be tried by a jury of his > > neighbors and they'd probably decide you needed killin' and not do > anything to him. There > > was one old gent who shot a couple of Mexicans in the back as they > walked down a public > > road after they'd stopped at his house and asked for a drink of > water and his only > > response was "Honey, get the gun" at which point the Mexicans of > course left and started > > walking down the public road again until the old gent chased them > down in his pickup > > truck and shot them in the back, the jury of this fellow's > neighbors deliberated a while and > > decided that the old gent had to be punished for this heinous crime > of shooting a couple > > of Mexicans in the back so they issued him a $5,000 fine. That's > Texas. That's why when I > > lived in Texas, I decided I wasn't going to take up kayaking after > all . > > > > -E > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]