nklr-drivel

[Jeff Saline]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:46:22 EST jokerloco9@... writes:

> I'm kind of lost on this - why would anyone want a clip on master > link, with > all of the associated problems of it coming apart. > > Rivet the damn thing on and forget it! > > Jeff A20

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Jeff, I can give you an "other" Jeff's take on the master link. : ) I like a master link with clip cause I can take it apart if I need to. I carry a few spare links and clip type master links on my bike (in the Explorer tank bag to be exact) and the tools to use them. I figure if I need them for me I've got them but more importantly I've got them for a riding partner that has an issue with a chain. Assuming it's a 520 at least. Now that I've said that... when on De Tour Steve had a clip type master link on his bike. When he bought a new KLR650 in Chino Valley and we did the parts swapping the next day we pulled the swing arms off both bikes instead of messing with the master link. Even if we had pulled the master link we had a stock chain to mess with and it didn't have a master link. So either type probably works well. I clean my chain when I put it together and then use a dab of RTV on the clip to help it stay in place. Ever since I started doing that I haven't lost a link. I also carry stainless steel safety wire when on a trip too. But I don't carry RTV. I guess in that case I'd use a bit of JB Kwik to lock the clip in place. The safety wire is for emergency repairs and a master link clip isn't an emergency unless you don't have one. : ) The clip isn't any better than the riveted links in my opinion. But it's not worse on a KLR either. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[GMac999]

I use #1 also, but curl the end back over the clip. Spray it with brake cleaner then use silicon gasket sealer over the wire and the clip. GregM -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fasteddiecopeman Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:43 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Stupid clip-type masterlinks I use method 1. Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "benhua4" wrote: > > Hi Chris, > Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended using > safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how do you > do it? > > Method #1, like this: > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 > > Method #2, like this: > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 > > Or neither of the above? > > I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it coming of > at 70mph, know what I mean? > > Best regards, > Bob L > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Norloff" > wrote: > > > > Such a pain. Glad you got it fixed okay. I've used the clip-type > links for many years and many miles. After losing one clip a long time > ago I either safety-wire the clip on or clean it and put a smear of > silicon sealant on it. Works great. > > > > Chris > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I see no reason to "have a need" to break apart a chain at all in the field. The only time you "might" need to take a chain apart is at home, doing scheduled maintenance, not in the field. If the chain breaks on the field, then OK, it is common knowledge to carry a spare clip on for emergency repairs in the field. But when you get home, get rid of that piece of junk and rivet one on. Can't say I have ever heard of a PROPERLY riveted clip on failing. But many people here have stories about clip on types coming apart - so much so that they have developed these nice ways of keeping them on - like RTV or safety wire! All the talk here about making the KLR more durable - better bolts for the rear section, doohickey, etc, etc, and then screw up the stock chain with a clip on link! Get serious. Just a question - (and I don't know the answer) - do people riding sportbikes have clip on links? Can't say I have seen it, but then again I haven't been looking. Are there any manufacturers using clip-on links as standard equipment? I think the thought of the need for an easily removable chain dates to many years ago, when there was no such thing as an o-ring chain and high quality chains, and people actually needed to take the chain off frequently to clean it and soak it in oil. That died in what, the early 1980's?? Jeff A20 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:24:27 EST jokerloco9@... writes:

> I see no reason to "have a need" to break apart a chain at all in the > field. > The only time you "might" need to take a chain apart is at home, > doing > scheduled maintenance, not in the field. If the chain breaks on the > field, then > OK, it is common knowledge to carry a spare clip on for emergency > repairs in > the field. But when you get home, get rid of that piece of junk > and rivet > one on. Can't say I have ever heard of a PROPERLY riveted clip on > failing. > But many people here have stories about clip on types coming apart > - so much so > that they have developed these nice ways of keeping them on - like > RTV or > safety wire! > > All the talk here about making the KLR more durable - better bolts > for the > rear section, doohickey, etc, etc, and then screw up the stock chain > with a > clip on link! Get serious. > > Just a question - (and I don't know the answer) - do people riding > > sportbikes have clip on links? Can't say I have seen it, but then > again I haven't > been looking. Are there any manufacturers using clip-on links as > standard > equipment? > > I think the thought of the need for an easily removable chain dates > to many > years ago, when there was no such thing as an o-ring chain and high > quality > chains, and people actually needed to take the chain off frequently > to clean it > and soak it in oil. That died in what, the early 1980's?? > > Jeff A20

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> Jeff, I suppose I could come up with a few scenes where I'd rather take a chain apart in the field than pull a swing arm. : ) But I agree most folks wouldn't have a need to take a chain apart except to replace it. On the KLR with it's small herd of horses I don't think it makes a difference what type of master link a guy uses. Kind of like I think Kenda K270 tires work well on the KLR for my type of riding. But double or triple the horses and I wouldn't use a clip type master link or K270s as a first or second choice. : ) I don't know much about sportbikes but guess they don't use master links with clips from the factory. But neither does the KLR. : ) I don't think the clip type master link is a liability if it's installed correctly. And using RTV in this application is like using loctite on KLR fasteners. I don't use it very often but I do check my fasteners for security on a regular basis. I don't often find fasteners loose either. I only clean my chain on the bike unless it's off for some other issue. And I don't clean my chain very often anyway. No chains soaking in oil or kerosene for me. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[Jeff Saline]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:24:27 EST jokerloco9@... writes:

> I see no reason to "have a need" to break apart a chain at all in the > field. > The only time you "might" need to take a chain apart is at home, > doing > scheduled maintenance, not in the field. If the chain breaks on the > field, then > OK, it is common knowledge to carry a spare clip on for emergency > repairs in > the field. But when you get home, get rid of that piece of junk > and rivet > one on. Can't say I have ever heard of a PROPERLY riveted clip on > failing. > But many people here have stories about clip on types coming apart > - so much so > that they have developed these nice ways of keeping them on - like > RTV or > safety wire! > > All the talk here about making the KLR more durable - better bolts > for the > rear section, doohickey, etc, etc, and then screw up the stock chain > with a > clip on link! Get serious. > > Just a question - (and I don't know the answer) - do people riding > > sportbikes have clip on links? Can't say I have seen it, but then > again I haven't > been looking. Are there any manufacturers using clip-on links as > standard > equipment? > > I think the thought of the need for an easily removable chain dates > to many > years ago, when there was no such thing as an o-ring chain and high > quality > chains, and people actually needed to take the chain off frequently > to clean it > and soak it in oil. That died in what, the early 1980's?? > > Jeff A20

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> Jeff, I suppose I could come up with a few scenes where I'd rather take a chain apart in the field than pull a swing arm. : ) But I agree most folks wouldn't have a need to take a chain apart except to replace it. On the KLR with it's small herd of horses I don't think it makes a difference what type of master link a guy uses. Kind of like I think Kenda K270 tires work well on the KLR for my type of riding. But double or triple the horses and I wouldn't use a clip type master link or K270s as a first or second choice. : ) I don't know much about sportbikes but guess they don't use master links with clips from the factory. But neither does the KLR. : ) I don't think the clip type master link is a liability if it's installed correctly. And using RTV in this application is like using loctite on KLR fasteners. I don't use it very often but I do check my fasteners for security on a regular basis. I don't often find fasteners loose either. I only clean my chain on the bike unless it's off for some other issue. And I don't clean my chain very often anyway. No chains soaking in oil or kerosene for me. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I see clip-on master links as a liability not just because they may be weaker than the rest of the chain. I also think, as some have noted here, that the side of the chain can hit something while off-road, dislodging the clip. A good question would be -what do the serious off road dirt bikers do - clip or no clip? Jeff A20 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, jokerloco9@... wrote:

> > I see clip-on master links as a liability not just because they may be > weaker than the rest of the chain. I also think, as some have noted here, that > the side of the chain can hit something while off-road, dislodging the clip. > > A good question would be -what do the serious off road dirt bikers do - clip > or no clip? > > Jeff A20 > >

I just noticed that the clip on my DRZ chain has worn almost through, probably from rubbing on the chain guide. The bike tracks okay even though my endo/crash last year tweaked the subframe. I probably ought to look a little closer to see if the swingarm is skewed, too. I'll use a rivet link when I replace the chain.

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote:

> > 15,000 miles ago, I put one of those 'temporarily' on my chain

while I waited for the

> proper chain tool to install a rivet-type master link. I finally

did gulp and fork out the

> bucks for the DiD chain tool as well as a couple of spare rivet-

type master links, but never

> got around to installing the new master link to replace

the "temporary" one.

> > Yesterday I did my checkout of my bike in the hotel parking lot

prior to the 400 mile ride

> home and... the clip was gone. > > Lesson: It's a lot easier to change a link in the privacy of your

own garage with your whole

> toolkit available than it is to change it in a hotel parking lot

using a hard bag under the

> skidplate as your "lift" and a pair of borrowed channel-loks to

substitute for the correct

> wrenches (I was missing a 13mm for my chain adjusters, since I had

to loosen the back

> wheel to get enough slack to deal with the chain, and I was missing

whatever big-a**

> wrench is needed to hold the DiD tool while you crank on it). > > Oh, and the DiD chain tool is sweet, if expensive. Just so ya know.

It did a yeoman job of

> exactly pressing on the side plate and mushrooming the rivet heads

in exactly the DiD-

> specified dimensions. The directions are in Japanese, but it wasn't

difficult to figure out

> how it all worked based only on the illustrations and a general

knowledge of how it all fit

> together. > > BTW, my chain is still in great shape, and has never had a lick

of "chain lube" on it. It was

> WD-40 all the way until I put the Scott-oiler on it, and Scott-oil

then ATF since then. It

> looks like I'll get another 15,000 miles out of it if the sprockets

hold up...

> > - Eric G >

Eric and others- An alternate for the tool-box challenged--(I have a chain breaker, but no rivet tool, yet) to all this chain- breaking/riveting/masterlink stuff...I ordered my DID X-Ring chain (108 links for the 16/46 sprocket set) from 'Fred' and he riveted up the chain on his bench...same price, etc. INSTALLAtION: I pulled the swing arm, removed the old chain; start to finish, both new sprockets, chain, swingarm in and out -- in less than an hour. Having Fred rivet up the new chain was the best tool I never bought. shrug. maybe I will need to buy one later. shrug. The 16/46 is the moral equivalent of the 15/43, and when swapped to a 14T/CS, what an absolute joy to ride off road--Look MA! No clutch slipping/stalling/dropping the bike in a glacial moriane field. Similar results can be had with the 45T rear...the 46T was sent by a friend in Australia, as JT-sprokets will not make the 46T available in the US. Fellow poster, Jeff Saline tried to get JT-s to sell him a 46T here, but n0-o-o-o-o-o, no in the US. shrug. I was skeptical at first, swapping the rear to a 46, etc, would make that much difference offroad--wow!, but now that I have ~5Ksmiles on this combination, it really works well for my gravel roads/trails environment here in the Dakota's. Swapping back to the 16T for a 200/400 mile road trip, is only a 15 minute job. THE DOWN SIDE: Not wanting to ride at more than 5,500rpms for a long stretch ( < rpms = increased oil consumption), the 14/46 limits the IGS to ~65mph. You might say, that the 14/46 is a 'rev' limiter--and maybe that is a good thing. revmaaatin.

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" wrote:

> > I use method 1. > Ed > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "benhua4" wrote: > > > > Hi Chris, > > Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended

using

> > safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how do

you

> > do it? > > > > Method #1, like this: > > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 > > > > Method #2, like this: > > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 > > > > Or neither of the above? > > > > I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it

coming of

> > at 70mph, know what I mean? > > > > Best regards, > > Bob L

I am surprised at either #1 or #2 as the school solution. Won't the wire rub on the c/s and rear sproket as the chain turns...which would be counter productive. Method #3, (sorry on picture) would be .020 safety wire in a race track pattern in place of the clip. If not .020 than .030--understanding I have no do in the fight--I had 'Fred' rivit my chain to length when I bought it. Method #4 is to just RTV the clip in place--which I have never done either...but numerous posters here endorse it as a workable solution. As for the discussion of breaking the chain in the field, etal., and needing a repair...I would imagine if that happens, which the likelyhood is left of remote on a properly maintained bike, but if it did occur, I would most likey have more problems than a broken chain. shrug. Helo extraction comes to mind.... Others may have more anecdotal evidence/data to suggest otherwise, but a broken-riveted chain is not very high on my 'concern' list. And of course, cough, the cleaning lube of choice for a riveted chain is that wiskey/delta-40 stuff. Then again, I think K270 tires are great! shrug-h. It works for me. What is not being discussed here is 'why' are the clips leaving the chain. Believeing that most folks will get the clips installed going the correct direction, and as Zack suggested, pressure againt the retainer clip--1)It makes me wonder if the clips are the correct master link for the application. 2)If master links are really a good idea in the long run for use with O/X ring chains. Judging from the comments and problems that folks register here about their masterlinks, wnen I bought a new chain, I chose the riveted link method. just musing on a cold, windy day in the Dakota hitherlands. revmaaatin. loving my wiskey/delta-40 chain cleaner

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, jokerloco9@... wrote:

> > I see clip-on master links as a liability not just because they may

be

> weaker than the rest of the chain. I also think, as some have

noted here, that

> the side of the chain can hit something while off-road, dislodging

the clip.

> > A good question would be -what do the serious off road dirt bikers

do - clip

> or no clip? > > Jeff A20

Jeff, I am with you on this one...but only recently due to a new experience. I didn't think I could 'hit' the link with anything that hard and knock it off...until I recently went down a prairie farm road that went from damp to goo and FILLED the spocket guard with gumbo mud...which then became gumbo-concrete! The next rock up into the c/s area could have flipped the masterlink, cut wires. At the very least, it was making a grinding noise. Maybe a little extreme for where you live, but gumbo here is an 'everday' occurance if the gravel-sic-road is wet...because it is now a sticky road with gravel, etc. Both of my dirt bikes, the KLR650 and KLX300 are rivet. The Honda 70,80,100,100 are all clipped. shrug. Thats the way they came. revmaaatin.