environmental concerns nklr

[traderpro2003]

Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and 2 relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable difference to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual intensity, but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended and supported by the data. Here are the details: conditions of testing: 63 deg F in the garage (outside is 38.7 F) relative humidity 29% 80W/80W PIAA bulb test descriptions: Determine voltage drop (as calculated by difference between measurements taken at battery and headlight connector pins) across stock wiring vs. upgraded wire setup (see note) in 2 conditions (1) battery steady state in both low and hi modes (beams) and (2) voltage drop with 35 amps boosting the battery again in low and hi modes. test results: (1) OEM voltage drop: 1.62LB/1.66HB vs. upgrade: .3LB/.3HB (2) [boosted] OEM voltage drop: 1.68LB/1.87HB vs. upgrade: .26LB/.25HB LB = low beam HB = high beam note: the upgraded setup includes: 14AWG wire 5 inches from the heat- resistant headlight connector/plug to the first relay recepticle then 16AWG to the other relay and thereafter to the battery. 16AWG WAS NOT my choice; rather it came as a kit. I'd recommend 14AWG min or 12AWG preferred. A final note, all test measurements were conducted under the cautious guidance of Boulder Singletrack Copper Ale. We're having too much fun. Spreadsheet of my data is available in xls...just email me for a copy. Best regards - Brian --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > Jeff - Ha ha...just ripped mine out b/c it was kluge. I'm going to > measure the V-drop and wire diameter. Yes, 130 watts is over 10- > amp. The Big Cee website suggests some are upgrading the

wires...how

> when they use the wires going through the switches? I'm not sure > what power level is harmful for the contacts. But you can't

upgrade

> the wire without major surgery if at all possible and certainly the > contacts could be an issue. Which is why the relay setup makes > sense. Well, it's not difficult to re-install that's for sure > because at the moment the patient is still hot on the table and

fully-

> exposed. > > My bulb is an 80/80 I got from Fred vs. thought it was a 90/130.

So

> at 80 watts/12V that's closer to 7 amps. I'll measure and report > back. > > > From Big Cee KLR site... > > "Can I use a brighter headlight bulb? > KLR owners often run a higher-power bulb like an 80/100W, 55/100,

etc

> (stock is 55/60, type 9003 H4). Your local NAPA should have the > Wagner BP1210-H4 80/100 bulb for around $13. Some people have had > problems with the headlight socket melting; the NAPA LS6235 socket > (or one from an '84 Honda Accord) is a close replacement, and is

made

> of heat-resistant Bakelite. Others, however, have ran these bulbs > with the stock socket and wiring with no problems. The one thing

you

> definitely want to do is replace the 10A headlight fuse with a 15A > one. " > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:49:47 -0000 "traderpro2003" > > writes: > > > Anyone running 90W or more with the stock wiring? I upgraded

the

> > > wiring (including recepticle) awhile ago but just ripped it all > out. > > > > > > The kit was from totally wired and served a good purpose as a > light > > > cut- > > > out switch in add to hi-temp recepticle and thicker wiring. > Anyway, > > > I > > > upgraded the left controls to push-to-cancel blinkers and love > the > > > new > > > setup. Fred at Arrowhead hooked me up. This switch has the > > > headlight > > > off feature in the cluster...and it rocks. Anyway, I no longer > need > > > > > > the over-ride kit and I'm wondering if the stock wiring (sans

the

> > > OEM > > > light recepticle) is ok to run with a 90W/130W bulb. I haven't > > > asked > > > Fred yet... Thanks all. - Brian > > <><><><><><><><> > > <><><><><><><><> > > > > Brian, > > > > With that set up I think I'd be using relays for sure. Figure > roughly 90 > > watts is about 7 amps and 130 watts will be about 10 amps. Maybe

a

> tad > > more or a tad less depending on voltage and a few other factors. > But > > either way that's a lot to put through the stock switch contacts. > > > > I think I'd control the relays using the stock wiring and add new > wiring > > to make sure those lights got all the power they require. > > > > I've said it before but I'll say it again. Most of the stock KLR > > headlights have a voltage drop. I think Norm found 1.5 volts

drop

> on his > > wiring. That's HUGE!!! And if I recall correctly a 1 volt drop

on

> our > > headlight will be about the same as a 50% reduction in light > output. If > > I got that correct it sure is a good argument for fixing the > headlight > > wiring on a stock KLR. > > > > So if the stock system has a voltage drop like 1 volt... I

wonder

> what > > almost doubling the requirement will produce for a voltage drop. > I'm > > sure it won't get better. : ) > > > > I've got the parts to put relays into my system this winter

when/if

> it > > becomes important enough. > > > > Best, > > > > Jeff Saline > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > >

[Jeff Saline]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:46 -0000 "traderpro2003" writes:

> Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock > wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 > volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added > negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and 2 > relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low > beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable difference > > to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual intensity, > > but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended and > > supported by the data. > > Here are the details:

SNIP SNIP SNIP

> Best regards - Brian

<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><> Brian, Interesting test results. I'd suggest the 0.3 volt drop is still excessive for this circuit. I'd be aiming for more like 0.1 volts or less. I wonder if the switch contacts are burnt causing excessive resistance. Thanks for sharing your tests and results with the list. Testing light intensity sure would be informative. We can all get a seat of the pants evaluation of improved lighting but the numbers really point out how we've done with actual changes. I remember riding in Texas immediately after getting my KLR. It was evening and after dinner it got pretty dark. We had to ride maybe 20 miles to try to find a place to stay. The guy leading had a very dim headlight. His bike was a couple of years older than mine. My light on low beam was like super high compared to his on high beam. We rode side by side for quite a while so he could see. The next spring he was at my place for some riding and wrenching. On a ride in the hills his bike quit on him. We got it started again and when we got back to the shop we did a better fix on a broken wire. It was under the seat and had probably been mostly broken for a long time. He commented later about how bright his headlight was after we fixed the broken wire. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[traderpro2003]

Jeff- I'd attribute most of the .3 voltage drop to 14AWG wire. Whoever built the Totally Wired kit should have used 12AWG! They snuck this by me at purchase. Had 12GA been used the results would be even lower if not 0. Remember the contacts are powering 2 Bosch relays in my setup, so these contacts have nothing to do with power draw in the load circuit. I don't have a light meter to take the measurements or I would. But it's not necessary considering the test results. No doubt for me a 80W/80W made a huge difference visually, but I'm trying to limit night riding anyway as the risks go up needlessly. But clearly a near 2 volt drop is detectable with the naked eye. Now, I'd love to run the 90w/130w for giggles but even with my upgraded stator, that's a lot of power draw--esp I'm not doing much night riding. If I wanted more/better light, I'd add the PIAA 600 HID lighting for $1,200 which draws around 35w over my 80/80 headlight. These are incredible. http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=PIA73600/353.0 But for now, if I ride at night I'm using a battery pack with a helmet-mounted HID light. I can look side to side and corners at great distance. My girlfriend calls the light "the sun." I use it road and mountain biking as well. It's one bright dude and great in emergency if you have to leave the bike. The mount is a bit tricky for helmets I will say but you can mount it to the moto directly. http://www.rei.com/product/729839 Funny story. Thanks for sharing. I had a similar event. My brother and I were in Death Valley...just starting out in the dark. We got 30 miles from camp and his bike died and no lights! He didn't have any backup lighting and would have been in deep do-do without a buddy. (I always carry a small, l/w LED light in my Dual Star bag...regardless.) We disassembled the seat and a wire connector came undone...which is why I prefer soldered connections! The entire spaghetti wire system under the seat and behind the dash is disenchanting. Everytime I remove the seat, I hold my breath waiting to find bare/chafed wires arcing! I even did the ATO fuse upgrade but it's still kluge in there. Best - Brian

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:46 -0000 "traderpro2003" > writes: > > Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock > > wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 > > volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added > > negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and 2 > > relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low > > beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable difference > > > > to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual intensity, > > > > but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended and > > > > supported by the data. > > > > Here are the details: > > SNIP SNIP SNIP > > > Best regards - Brian > <><><><><><><><><> > <><><><><><><><><> > > Brian, > > Interesting test results. I'd suggest the 0.3 volt drop is still > excessive for this circuit. I'd be aiming for more like 0.1 volts or > less. I wonder if the switch contacts are burnt causing excessive > resistance. > > Thanks for sharing your tests and results with the list. Testing light > intensity sure would be informative. We can all get a seat of the pants > evaluation of improved lighting but the numbers really point out how > we've done with actual changes. > > I remember riding in Texas immediately after getting my KLR. It was > evening and after dinner it got pretty dark. We had to ride maybe 20 > miles to try to find a place to stay. The guy leading had a very dim > headlight. His bike was a couple of years older than mine. My light on > low beam was like super high compared to his on high beam. We rode side > by side for quite a while so he could see. The next spring he was at my > place for some riding and wrenching. On a ride in the hills his bike > quit on him. We got it started again and when we got back to the shop we > did a better fix on a broken wire. It was under the seat and had > probably been mostly broken for a long time. He commented later about > how bright his headlight was after we fixed the broken wire. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT >

[Greg May]

Hi Jeff and Brian, I haven't done the often mentioned wiring / relay upgrade but will probaly do it this winter. My choice of wire size would be #10 TEW because if its flexability, 1 hot and 1 ground run seperate in a small plastic flex. If you're going to run the wire, size wise there is little difference between 14, 12 or 10 since you are only dealing with 2 wires. That being said if you're looking for the last few 10ths of a volt drop I would and perhaps you already have look at the connections and perhaps not so much at the #14 wire. I think you might find your drop at either a connection or accross the relay contacts themselves. Crimp type connectors can be a real pain if you are trying to eliminate that last little bit of drop. Personally I would start at the battery end and check the voltage drop across each segment of the run at each connection in both the + and - direction. For comparison a 1 volt drop on a 600 volt system accross a switch contact can cause a real noticable heating problem, while at 14 volts you won't generate much heat with a 300mv drop you certain will lose a few lumens...anyway have a great evening ....Greg traderpro2003 wrote: Jeff- I'd attribute most of the .3 voltage drop to 14AWG wire. Whoever built the Totally Wired kit should have used 12AWG! They snuck this by me at purchase. Had 12GA been used the results would be even lower if not 0. Remember the contacts are powering 2 Bosch relays in my setup, so these contacts have nothing to do with power draw in the load circuit. I don't have a light meter to take the measurements or I would. But it's not necessary considering the test results. No doubt for me a 80W/80W made a huge difference visually, but I'm trying to limit night riding anyway as the risks go up needlessly. But clearly a near 2 volt drop is detectable with the naked eye. Now, I'd love to run the 90w/130w for giggles but even with my upgraded stator, that's a lot of power draw--esp I'm not doing much night riding. If I wanted more/better light, I'd add the PIAA 600 HID lighting for $1,200 which draws around 35w over my 80/80 headlight. These are incredible. http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=PIA73600/353.0 But for now, if I ride at night I'm using a battery pack with a helmet-mounted HID light. I can look side to side and corners at great distance. My girlfriend calls the light "the sun." I use it road and mountain biking as well. It's one bright dude and great in emergency if you have to leave the bike. The mount is a bit tricky for helmets I will say but you can mount it to the moto directly. http://www.rei.com/product/729839 Funny story. Thanks for sharing. I had a similar event. My brother and I were in Death Valley...just starting out in the dark. We got 30 miles from camp and his bike died and no lights! He didn't have any backup lighting and would have been in deep do-do without a buddy. (I always carry a small, l/w LED light in my Dual Star bag...regardless.) We disassembled the seat and a wire connector came undone...which is why I prefer soldered connections! The entire spaghetti wire system under the seat and behind the dash is disenchanting. Everytime I remove the seat, I hold my breath waiting to find bare/chafed wires arcing! I even did the ATO fuse upgrade but it's still kluge in there. Best - Brian

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:46 -0000 "traderpro2003" > writes: > > Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock > > wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 > > volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added > > negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and 2 > > relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low > > beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable difference > > > > to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual intensity, > > > > but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended and > > > > supported by the data. > > > > Here are the details: > > SNIP SNIP SNIP > > > Best regards - Brian > <><><><><><><><><> > <><><><><><><><><> > > Brian, > > Interesting test results. I'd suggest the 0.3 volt drop is still > excessive for this circuit. I'd be aiming for more like 0.1 volts or > less. I wonder if the switch contacts are burnt causing excessive > resistance. > > Thanks for sharing your tests and results with the list. Testing light > intensity sure would be informative. We can all get a seat of the pants > evaluation of improved lighting but the numbers really point out how > we've done with actual changes. > > I remember riding in Texas immediately after getting my KLR. It was > evening and after dinner it got pretty dark. We had to ride maybe 20 > miles to try to find a place to stay. The guy leading had a very dim > headlight. His bike was a couple of years older than mine. My light on > low beam was like super high compared to his on high beam. We rode side > by side for quite a while so he could see. The next spring he was at my > place for some riding and wrenching. On a ride in the hills his bike > quit on him. We got it started again and when we got back to the shop we > did a better fix on a broken wire. It was under the seat and had > probably been mostly broken for a long time. He commented later about > how bright his headlight was after we fixed the broken wire. > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > --------------------------------- Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[traderpro2003]

Hi Greg - I'm starting to think the any upgrade will improve even the stock bulb...regardless. The near 2-volt drop is significant enough to visually detect as I've stated. Now whether or not this is coming through the contacts or mostly the undersized wire...we'd need more data. As far as in the upgraded setup, I agree we ARE losing something in the relays. But 12 ga wire in my opinion is more than adequate...and I'd like to redo the same tests using it. For example, using 14 ga, you'd expect upto 3% loss at 10 amps/120 watts in runs upto 9 ft. The same calc for 12 ga wire yields 14 ft. Now I wouldn't recommend 14 ga beyond 10 amps but jumping up to say 16 amps/192 watts, 12 ga would be good for 5.5 ft @ upto 3% loss. Your 10 ga would be good for 30 amps/360 watts upto 4.6 ft. It's a lot overkill for 80 watt bulb despite not much difference in wire cost. I'm not certain about the wire type you've mentioned but most oil/gas resistance wire 12AWG is my rec as sometimes a thicker wire means more rubbing on the frame/tight places and also 10 ga connections are harder to make at terminals, conx, etc. Thanks for comments. - Brian

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Greg May wrote: > > Hi Jeff and Brian, I haven't done the often mentioned wiring / relay upgrade but will probaly do it this winter. My choice of wire size would be #10 TEW because if its flexability, 1 hot and 1 ground run seperate in a small plastic flex. If you're going to run the wire, size wise there is little difference between 14, 12 or 10 since you are only dealing with 2 wires. That being said if you're looking for the last few 10ths of a volt drop I would and perhaps you already have look at the connections and perhaps not so much at the #14 wire. I think you might find your drop at either a connection or accross the relay contacts themselves. Crimp type connectors can be a real pain if you are trying to eliminate that last little bit of drop. Personally I would start at the battery end and check the voltage drop across each segment of the run at each connection in both the + and - direction. For comparison a 1 volt drop on a 600 volt system accross a switch contact can cause a > real noticable heating problem, while at 14 volts you won't generate much heat with a 300mv drop you certain will lose a few lumens...anyway have a great evening ....Greg > > traderpro2003 wrote: Jeff- I'd attribute most of the .3 voltage drop to 14AWG wire. > Whoever built the Totally Wired kit should have used 12AWG! They > snuck this by me at purchase. Had 12GA been used the results would > be even lower if not 0. Remember the contacts are powering 2 Bosch > relays in my setup, so these contacts have nothing to do with power > draw in the load circuit. > > I don't have a light meter to take the measurements or I would. But > it's not necessary considering the test results. No doubt for me a > 80W/80W made a huge difference visually, but I'm trying to limit > night riding anyway as the risks go up needlessly. But clearly a > near 2 volt drop is detectable with the naked eye. Now, I'd love to > run the 90w/130w for giggles but even with my upgraded stator, that's > a lot of power draw--esp I'm not doing much night riding. If I > wanted more/better light, I'd add the PIAA 600 HID lighting for > $1,200 which draws around 35w over my 80/80 headlight. These are > incredible. > http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=PIA73600/353.0 > > But for now, if I ride at night I'm using a battery pack with a > helmet-mounted HID light. I can look side to side and corners at > great distance. My girlfriend calls the light "the sun." I use it > road and mountain biking as well. It's one bright dude and great in > emergency if you have to leave the bike. The mount is a bit tricky > for helmets I will say but you can mount it to the moto directly. > http://www.rei.com/product/729839 > > Funny story. Thanks for sharing. I had a similar event. My brother > and I were in Death Valley...just starting out in the dark. We got > 30 miles from camp and his bike died and no lights! He didn't have > any backup lighting and would have been in deep do-do without a > buddy. (I always carry a small, l/w LED light in my Dual Star > bag...regardless.) We disassembled the seat and a wire connector > came undone...which is why I prefer soldered connections! The entire > spaghetti wire system under the seat and behind the dash is > disenchanting. Everytime I remove the seat, I hold my breath waiting > to find bare/chafed wires arcing! I even did the ATO fuse upgrade > but it's still kluge in there. > > Best - Brian > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:46 -0000 "traderpro2003" > > writes: > > > Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock > > > wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 > > > volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added > > > negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and > 2 > > > relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low > > > beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable > difference > > > > > > to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual > intensity, > > > > > > but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended > and > > > > > > supported by the data. > > > > > > Here are the details: > > > > SNIP SNIP SNIP > > > > > Best regards - Brian > > <><><><><><><><><> > > <><><><><><><><><> > > > > Brian, > > > > Interesting test results. I'd suggest the 0.3 volt drop is still > > excessive for this circuit. I'd be aiming for more like 0.1 volts > or > > less. I wonder if the switch contacts are burnt causing excessive > > resistance. > > > > Thanks for sharing your tests and results with the list. Testing > light > > intensity sure would be informative. We can all get a seat of the > pants > > evaluation of improved lighting but the numbers really point out how > > we've done with actual changes. > > > > I remember riding in Texas immediately after getting my KLR. It was > > evening and after dinner it got pretty dark. We had to ride maybe > 20 > > miles to try to find a place to stay. The guy leading had a very > dim > > headlight. His bike was a couple of years older than mine. My > light on > > low beam was like super high compared to his on high beam. We rode > side > > by side for quite a while so he could see. The next spring he was > at my > > place for some riding and wrenching. On a ride in the hills his > bike > > quit on him. We got it started again and when we got back to the > shop we > > did a better fix on a broken wire. It was under the seat and had > > probably been mostly broken for a long time. He commented later > about > > how bright his headlight was after we fixed the broken wire. > > > > Best, > > > > Jeff Saline > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Adam]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, WEST HOVLAND wrote:

> > I don't understand when some folks make hints at trying to be "a

little" more environmentally friendly, that some other folks go completely off the deep end with their retort.

> > West___ > > > >It's because environmentalists almost never make small hints but

usually go off the deep end with their B.S. In turn that causes the rest of us grief and usually $$$$$ also. So don't be surprised when the main stream of people slam down the environmental crap early when it is just a hint before it manifests itself into something out of hand. Just look at the global warming scam and how much it is costing us. Adam 04 KLR650 04 KTM450MXC 47 PLYM 354 HEMI (LARGE CARBON FOOTPRINT)

>

[Greg May]

Hi Brian, curiousity has kicked in now so time permitting tomorrow or maybe Friday I'll try to do some testing of my own. I'll be using a power supply rather then the bike electrical system but that shouldn't really have any effects on the results. For wire length 6 feet is probably a long guess. I'm not sure what gauge the OEM wiring is but I think for comparsion I'll try 18, 16, 14, 12 and 10 AWG. Since the bulbs are rated at 12 volts and actual working voltage is more like 14 volts I'll use both of those for testing. For the sake of comparsion I'll, time permitting test with a direct feed from the supply to the bulb and also through a set of relay contacts. I think all I havelaying around is a regular 50/60 watt bulb that maybe only has high beam, will have to check. My original thought of how I was going to modify my lighting system was to go solid state but since you start off with a .4 or .5 working voltage drop with any device I could think of using I discarded that idea. The TEW wire I refer to is typically used for control wiring on industrial machinery, it has very good insulation (600 volts) and is very finely stranded so it is very flexable and to me very available and to most anyone else it should be no problem to source at any electrical distributer. I'm pretty sure that #10 would cause no more problem to run then #12 and it provides lots of capacity for adding any future accessories. Also from a termination standpoint I have access to man different sizes of wire ends so I have lots to choose from so again #10 or #12 I don't think will make a difference....anyway enjoy the evening....Greg traderpro2003 wrote: Hi Greg - I'm starting to think the any upgrade will improve even the stock bulb...regardless. The near 2-volt drop is significant enough to visually detect as I've stated. Now whether or not this is coming through the contacts or mostly the undersized wire...we'd need more data. As far as in the upgraded setup, I agree we ARE losing something in the relays. But 12 ga wire in my opinion is more than adequate...and I'd like to redo the same tests using it. For example, using 14 ga, you'd expect upto 3% loss at 10 amps/120 watts in runs upto 9 ft. The same calc for 12 ga wire yields 14 ft. Now I wouldn't recommend 14 ga beyond 10 amps but jumping up to say 16 amps/192 watts, 12 ga would be good for 5.5 ft @ upto 3% loss. Your 10 ga would be good for 30 amps/360 watts upto 4.6 ft. It's a lot overkill for 80 watt bulb despite not much difference in wire cost. I'm not certain about the wire type you've mentioned but most oil/gas resistance wire 12AWG is my rec as sometimes a thicker wire means more rubbing on the frame/tight places and also 10 ga connections are harder to make at terminals, conx, etc. Thanks for comments. - Brian

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Greg May wrote: > > Hi Jeff and Brian, I haven't done the often mentioned wiring / relay upgrade but will probaly do it this winter. My choice of wire size would be #10 TEW because if its flexability, 1 hot and 1 ground run seperate in a small plastic flex. If you're going to run the wire, size wise there is little difference between 14, 12 or 10 since you are only dealing with 2 wires. That being said if you're looking for the last few 10ths of a volt drop I would and perhaps you already have look at the connections and perhaps not so much at the #14 wire. I think you might find your drop at either a connection or accross the relay contacts themselves. Crimp type connectors can be a real pain if you are trying to eliminate that last little bit of drop. Personally I would start at the battery end and check the voltage drop across each segment of the run at each connection in both the + and - direction. For comparison a 1 volt drop on a 600 volt system accross a switch contact can cause a > real noticable heating problem, while at 14 volts you won't generate much heat with a 300mv drop you certain will lose a few lumens...anyway have a great evening ....Greg > > traderpro2003 wrote: Jeff- I'd attribute most of the .3 voltage drop to 14AWG wire. > Whoever built the Totally Wired kit should have used 12AWG! They > snuck this by me at purchase. Had 12GA been used the results would > be even lower if not 0. Remember the contacts are powering 2 Bosch > relays in my setup, so these contacts have nothing to do with power > draw in the load circuit. > > I don't have a light meter to take the measurements or I would. But > it's not necessary considering the test results. No doubt for me a > 80W/80W made a huge difference visually, but I'm trying to limit > night riding anyway as the risks go up needlessly. But clearly a > near 2 volt drop is detectable with the naked eye. Now, I'd love to > run the 90w/130w for giggles but even with my upgraded stator, that's > a lot of power draw--esp I'm not doing much night riding. If I > wanted more/better light, I'd add the PIAA 600 HID lighting for > $1,200 which draws around 35w over my 80/80 headlight. These are > incredible. > http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=PIA73600/353.0 > > But for now, if I ride at night I'm using a battery pack with a > helmet-mounted HID light. I can look side to side and corners at > great distance. My girlfriend calls the light "the sun." I use it > road and mountain biking as well. It's one bright dude and great in > emergency if you have to leave the bike. The mount is a bit tricky > for helmets I will say but you can mount it to the moto directly. > http://www.rei.com/product/729839 > > Funny story. Thanks for sharing. I had a similar event. My brother > and I were in Death Valley...just starting out in the dark. We got > 30 miles from camp and his bike died and no lights! He didn't have > any backup lighting and would have been in deep do-do without a > buddy. (I always carry a small, l/w LED light in my Dual Star > bag...regardless.) We disassembled the seat and a wire connector > came undone...which is why I prefer soldered connections! The entire > spaghetti wire system under the seat and behind the dash is > disenchanting. Everytime I remove the seat, I hold my breath waiting > to find bare/chafed wires arcing! I even did the ATO fuse upgrade > but it's still kluge in there. > > Best - Brian > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:46 -0000 "traderpro2003" > > writes: > > > Summary: Once again...size matters. Voltage drop (Vd) on stock > > > wiring averaged 1.64 volts circa 12 volts (steady state) and 1.78 > > > volts circa 14 volts (boosted). Vd using OEM on high beam added > > > negligible resistance over low beam. With the upgraded wire and > 2 > > > relays, voltage drop minimized to .3 volts on both high and low > > > beam. Visually, going from 12 to 14 volts made a notable > difference > > > > > > to my eye in brightness. Next would be to measure actual > intensity, > > > > > > but these facts support conclusively the upgrade is recommended > and > > > > > > supported by the data. > > > > > > Here are the details: > > > > SNIP SNIP SNIP > > > > > Best regards - Brian > > <><><><><><><><><> > > <><><><><><><><><> > > > > Brian, > > > > Interesting test results. I'd suggest the 0.3 volt drop is still > > excessive for this circuit. I'd be aiming for more like 0.1 volts > or > > less. I wonder if the switch contacts are burnt causing excessive > > resistance. > > > > Thanks for sharing your tests and results with the list. Testing > light > > intensity sure would be informative. We can all get a seat of the > pants > > evaluation of improved lighting but the numbers really point out how > > we've done with actual changes. > > > > I remember riding in Texas immediately after getting my KLR. It was > > evening and after dinner it got pretty dark. We had to ride maybe > 20 > > miles to try to find a place to stay. The guy leading had a very > dim > > headlight. His bike was a couple of years older than mine. My > light on > > low beam was like super high compared to his on high beam. We rode > side > > by side for quite a while so he could see. The next spring he was > at my > > place for some riding and wrenching. On a ride in the hills his > bike > > quit on him. We got it started again and when we got back to the > shop we > > did a better fix on a broken wire. It was under the seat and had > > probably been mostly broken for a long time. He commented later > about > > how bright his headlight was after we fixed the broken wire. > > > > Best, > > > > Jeff Saline > > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --------------------------------- Looking for a X-Mas gift? Everybody needs a Flickr Pro Account! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]