nklr dear abby

[bseifert71@mindspring.com]

Wasn't that Lee Harvey Oswald's weapon of choice? -----Original Message-----

>From: Norm Keller >Sent: Nov 7, 2006 6:18 PM >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Bird Strikes > >>(long-ago) >>elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man for >>ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all right in > >Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5. > >The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. > >Norm > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

[Douglas Bouley]

And to putt ever-deeper into NKLR territory: while the 6.5 is neither especially big nor especially fast, it can claim surprisingly good sectional density, at least in some loads (around .328 in 160gr bullets). This is right up there with a .416 400 gr bullet (at .330). High SD implies good penetration which I hear is an issue when attempting elephant heart shots. There is a (small) school of thought to the effect that sectional density is what "really" matters in terminal ballistics! I read that about 10-15 years ago. Honest. Some pundit was making the case for the 6.5 as the "best" all-around rifle caliber, based on SD. Yanking this back on topic (hah!): has anyone calculated the sectional density of dead chickens or live birds? SD=weight in lbs/diameter in inches, squared. Based on personal empirical studies, I believe that large stinging insects must have fairly low sectional densities. I say that because them @#$% bees make impressive flesh wounds, but thankfully do not penetrate all that well at, say, 110 FPS/75MPH. -doug in dc, who may be having "density" issues of his own. bseifert71@... wrote:

> Wasn't that Lee Harvey Oswald's weapon of choice? > > -----Original Message----- > >> From: Norm Keller >> Sent: Nov 7, 2006 6:18 PM >> To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Bird Strikes >> >> >>> (long-ago) >>> elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man for >>> ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all right in >>> >> Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5. >> >> The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. >> >> Norm >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Critchley]

Yes, which is one reason for certain suspicions among gun types. DC bseifert71@... wrote:

> Wasn't that Lee Harvey Oswald's weapon of choice? > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Norm Keller > > >Sent: Nov 7, 2006 6:18 PM > > > > >

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[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> > >(long-ago) > >elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man

for

> >ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all

right in

> > Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is

also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5.

> > The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. > > Norm >

Hi Norm, snip-The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano.-snip Yep. That's the one; and now for a lame excuse. I'm not quite as isolated as the other chap on the tugboat (fork- brace for sale) but when I am in the flying mode and not the rev mode, I don't have access to my personal library, or much of anything else except jet fuel, hydraulic oil and a very nice 'rotary dual- sport'. revmaaatin. who is not very talented at finding anything on the internet other than his access to the DSN_KLR650 list

[fasteddiecopeman]

Rev, His name was Kilimanjaro Bell, and his weapon of choice for MOST of his kills, was a 7mm Mauser shooting FMJ military ammo, tho' I thought he always "brained" them. Cheers, Ed

> I wish I could remember the (long-ago) > elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants than any other man for > ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio (sp) if I got it all right in > my memory. His placement was to shoot them in the heart with a blunt > nose bullet. Neither high velocity, nor high mass; knowledge of > elephant anatomy and bullet placement with a rifle that the hunter > could easily control. > revmaaatin. who does not endorse hunting elephants >

[fasteddiecopeman]

FWIW, I just "Googled" Kilimanjaro Bell, and the FIRST link was http://yarchive.net/metal/elephant_hunting.html and it seems to go along w/ my earlier post. The 7mm Mauser (7 x 57) was called the .275 Rigby. Ed

[stevedyer@cox.net]

I'd have to check my library, but I believe many of Bell's elephants were taken with a .275 Rigby, basically a 7x57 Mauser that was given a proprietary name by when chambered in Rigby's rifles. Steve Who spent too much of his youth reading all that stuff. ---- revmaaatin wrote:

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > > >(long-ago) > >elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man for > >ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all right in > > Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5. > > The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. > > Norm > Hi Norm, snip-The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano.-snip Yep. That's the one; and now for a lame excuse. I'm not quite as isolated as the other chap on the tugboat (fork- brace for sale) but when I am in the flying mode and not the rev mode, I don't have access to my personal library, or much of anything else except jet fuel, hydraulic oil and a very nice 'rotary dual- sport'. revmaaatin. who is not very talented at finding anything on the internet other than his access to the DSN_KLR650 list Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Douglas Bouley]

"A civilian version of the rifle, also introduced in 1903, proved very popular with big game hunters worldwide. The rifle continued to be manufactured in various forms (full, half-stock and take-down models) until 1972, and although production was interrupted during the Second World War, it eventually re-commenced in 1950. The most significant modification to be made to the rifle, during its period of manufacture, was introduced in 1925 when the action was lengthened to accommodate such cartridges as the .30-06 Springfield and .270 Winchester. Although no longer in production, the rifle remains popular due to its aesthetic qualities, compactness, the smoothness of its action and its precision and quality of manufacture. The rifle is also known for its low recoil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil> when chambered for the original 6.5x54 cartridge. Ernest Hemingway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Hemingway> frequently used the rifle, and mentions it in some of his writings. WDM Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WDM_Bell&action=edit>, a prominent elephant (ivory) hunter of the early 20th century, also used the rifle in its original 6.5x54 chambering with considerable success. The ability of the deminutive 6.5x54 cartridge to take the largest and most dangerous of the big game species, such as African Elephant and Cape Buffalo, was due in the main to the high sectional density of the 6.5 mm projectiles used in the rifle. Because the original factory loads for the 6.5x54 utilized projectiles that were long and heavy (160 grains) relative to their diameter, they proved capable (in solid form) of very deep penetration on muscle and bone. This coupled with the relatively low recoil of the cartridge facilitated accurate shot placement on vital organs such as the heart and brain. The rifle action was designed by Ferdinand Mannlicher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Mannlicher> and the rotary magazine by Otto Sch nauer http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Otto_Sch%C3%B6nauer&action=edit> of the sterreichische Waffenfabriksgesellschaft http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C3%96sterreichische_Waffenfabriksgesellschaft&action=edit> (Austrian Arms-Manufacturing Company; now Steyr Mannlicher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_Mannlicher>). This rifle should not be confused with its more widely manufactured cousin, the Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Mannlicher_M1895>, or the so-called Mannlicher-Carcano http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher-Carcano>, made infamous in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy> by Lee Harvey Oswald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald>." This is from an article on the Mannlicher-Schonauer at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannlicher-Sch%C3%B6nauer Probably not the definitive word on any of this, though. -doug in dc. fasteddiecopeman wrote:

> Rev, > His name was Kilimanjaro Bell, and his weapon of choice for MOST of his kills, was a 7mm > Mauser shooting FMJ military ammo, tho' I thought he always "brained" them. > Cheers, > Ed > > >> I wish I could remember the (long-ago) >> elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants than any other man for >> ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio (sp) if I got it all right in >> my memory. His placement was to shoot them in the heart with a blunt >> nose bullet. Neither high velocity, nor high mass; knowledge of >> elephant anatomy and bullet placement with a rifle that the hunter >> could easily control. >> > > >> revmaaatin. who does not endorse hunting elephants >> >> > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[usa1911a1]

Your comment made me pull out my cartridge conversion bible to see how they compare. The .275 Rigby while very similar to the 7x57 Mauser is not the same cartridge. 7x57 cartridges may be formed via dies to the correct size for the Rigby, but the cartridges are not interchangeable. The neck size, rim size, length and internal dimensions are all different. The 30-06 shell casing may also be used for the rigby...again with changes. Ballistically the Rigby outperforms the 7x57 but IMHO by very little...hardly enough to make it worth creating a new cartridge. There are many wildcat cartridges out there that only exist because someone wanted to tack their name on it. Capt. Bob in Durham, CT. USA

----- Original Message ----- From: To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Bird Strikes > > I'd have to check my library, but I believe many of Bell's elephants were taken with a .275 Rigby, basically a 7x57 Mauser that was given a proprietary name by when chambered in Rigby's rifles. > > Steve > Who spent too much of his youth reading all that stuff. > > > ---- revmaaatin wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > > > > >(long-ago) > > >elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man > for > > >ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all > right in > > > > Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is > also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to > reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and > wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5. > > > > The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. > > > > Norm > > > Hi Norm, > snip-The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano.-snip > Yep. That's the one; and now for a lame excuse. > I'm not quite as isolated as the other chap on the tugboat (fork- > brace for sale) but when I am in the flying mode and not the rev > mode, I don't have access to my personal library, or much of anything > else except jet fuel, hydraulic oil and a very nice 'rotary dual- > sport'. > revmaaatin. who is not very talented at finding anything on the > internet other than his access to the DSN_KLR650 list > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

[stevedyer]

----- Original Message ----- From: "usa1911a1" To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>; Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Bird Strikes > Your comment made me pull out my cartridge conversion bible to see how > they > compare. > > The .275 Rigby while very similar to the 7x57 Mauser is not the same > cartridge. 7x57 cartridges may be formed via dies to the correct size for > the Rigby, but the cartridges are not interchangeable. The neck size, rim > size, length and internal dimensions are all different. The 30-06 shell > casing may also be used for the rigby...again with changes. > > Ballistically the Rigby outperforms the 7x57 but IMHO by very > little...hardly enough to make it worth creating a new cartridge. There > are > many wildcat cartridges out there that only exist because someone wanted > to > tack their name on it. > > Capt. Bob in Durham, CT. USA > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR Bird Strikes > > >> >> I'd have to check my library, but I believe many of Bell's elephants were > taken with a .275 Rigby, basically a 7x57 Mauser that was given a > proprietary name by when chambered in Rigby's rifles. >> >> Steve >> Who spent too much of his youth reading all that stuff. >> >> >> ---- revmaaatin wrote: >> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: >> > >> > >(long-ago) >> > >elephant hunter's name--killed more elephants >than any other man >> for >> > >ivory--whose weapon was 6.5mm, Carcanio >(sp) if I got it all >> right in >> > >> > Walter Bell (known as WDM Bell) is the hunter you refer to. It is >> also well to recognize that he was a magic rifle shot according to >> reports by others. He used to like to stand above Victoria Falls and >> wing shoot cormorants with his 6.5. >> > >> > The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano. >> > >> > Norm >> > >> Hi Norm, >> snip-The Carcano is better known as 6.5 x 52 Mannlicher-Carcano.-snip >> Yep. That's the one; and now for a lame excuse. >> I'm not quite as isolated as the other chap on the tugboat (fork- >> brace for sale) but when I am in the flying mode and not the rev >> mode, I don't have access to my personal library, or much of anything >> else except jet fuel, hydraulic oil and a very nice 'rotary dual- >> sport'. >> revmaaatin. who is not very talented at finding anything on the >> internet other than his access to the DSN_KLR650 list >> >> >> >> >> Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >> List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >> List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >> Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >