oil pressure gauge (now oil temperature)

[Jim Hyman]

Kawi's specs for the KLR600/650 is 11 - 21 psi @ 4,000 rpm @ 90 degrees (F). There is an oil flow diagram on page 4-6 in the base service manual. There are several setups for oil pressure monitoring: 1) warning light 2) electrical analog gauge 3) mechanical analog gauge 4) digital gauge (about $200 [USD] ) A sending unit is required for all setups except the mechanical gauge. Most sending units are about 1" wide & 1" or more deep. Brass fittings can be used to adapt a sending unit to a pressurized oil channel. A mechanical gauge uses a thin oil tube that connects the gauge to a pressurized oil channel. The oil pressure scale usually goes from 0 - 100 psi, metric scales are also available. Most electric gauges have a scale that covers 1/4 of a circle, 90 degrees. Mechanical gauges have scales with 270 degrees or more and provide greater accuracy. A warning light merely tells you when the oil pressure drops below a pre-set level. Standard size for analog gauges is 2-1/4" diameter. Mini gauge sets have several 1" diameter meters. I installed a Stewart Warner oil pressure gauge on my R90/6. I used a brass T-fitting to allow the stock sending unit (for the idiot light) to be used in addition to the necessary tap for the mechanical gauge's oil pressure line. For additional protection, the thin oil pressure line was enclosed in clear reinforced fuel line. Plastic cable ties were used to keep the oil pressure line tight against the frame tubes. On your KLR, the oil channel near the oil level inspection window can be used as a hook up point. The oil pressure in this channel is measured as the oil leaves the oil pump & before it goes to the oil filter chamber. The main drawback to this location is the vulnerability of a sending unit or oil line if you take a hard hit to the bash plate. Another option is to drill & tap into one of the banjo bolts that are used in the external oil feed system. You need to be very careful that you don't weaken the bolt by removing too much material. Using the smallest & lightest sending unit will minimize vibration related failures. This location will measure the oil pressure in the system (after the oil filter chamber) that feeds the camshafts & transmission. I will be looking for a 0 - 50 psi mechanical gauge for my KLR. I will probably use a 90 degree fitting to hook up the oil line to the bottom of the oil channel near the water pump. I will carry a spare cap nut in case there is a failure in the oil line. The oil line will be tightly secured to the front down tube and kept away from the exhaust pipe. If I decide to include an idiot light, the sending unit will be near the gauge and not at the engine. Check out: http://www.omorimeter.com/images/45%20_Oil%20Pressure.htm for more info on gauges & sending unit size. Professor A9 Federal Way, WA. [USA]

[klr650klr]

I'm kinda new to this site so I don't know how well its been covered but have had an oil pressure gauge on my 04 for over a year and a half now. I started experimenting right after I bought it and it took a while to get it right. I found out there is no pressure warm what so ever in the oil feed line going to the left case and cylinder head as it is controlled by an orifice in the feeding banjo bolt. However when I made a fitting and tapped into the main oil galley I found quite a bit of pressure for a splash lubed engine. I have 12 PSI going down the road and about 1 1/2 at idle. If I run it up to 7000 I get about 30 and this is with the engine hot. When cold it pegs the needle of my 30 psi gauge when idling. I live in No Cal so I am riding on 105 degree days and then it does take about 2000 rpm to get the needle off 0 after riding a few miles. I have found it to be a great indicator on changing oil as it will start coming down after about 2000 miles in cooler weather and about 1500 in the middle of summer. Hope this helps you.

[Bill Watson]

This is the first time that I've heard the oil flow to the top end of the KLR is sized by a restrictor in the banjo bolt, rather than simply the total of the effective clearances of the items being oiled. This begs the question; if the only oil-related failures EVER in the KLR are always in the top end, wouldn't opening up the banjo bolt by .010" (or what ever is appropriate) be a popular mod? Talk about reasonably-low effort! A guess a different way to state the same is; are there ever tranny or crank pin bearing failures from lack of oil? Bill Watson Phoenix ---------------------- From: "klr650klr" Subject: Oil Pressure gauge I found out there is no pressure warm what so ever in the oil feed line going to the left case and cylinder head as it is controlled by an orifice in the feeding banjo bolt. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[klr650klr]

There are two reasons that the oil to the top end is restricted. Two much oil would flood the valve seals and being in the engine business for 30 years I have never seen an engine oil system desighned that would favor the top end over the bottom end. What would you rather replace, a head or a crank. When I first started experimenting with installing an oil pressure gauge the easiest place I found to tap into the system was the banjo bolt by the output shaft. I just drilled the banjo bolt and tapped it to fit my oil line. With a cold engine I could see up to 10 or 12 psi. Hot the needle would barly get to 4 psi at redline and was at 0 when doing 75 down the freeway. I thought I may get a higher reading at the head so I changed to that port. Still no pressure. Than I made the fitting for the main galley and had lots of pressure. I didn't mess with the feeding banjo at all as I had lots of flow to the head but just no pressure. To do that test I warmed up the engine and let the oil spill from the hose attached to the head banjo bolt for 10 or so seconds into a pan. Beleve me, there's lots of oil going up there. So I wouldn't mess with trying to get more oil to the top unless you are willing to sacrifice something on the lower end. My guess on head problems would be low oil levels, dirty oil, or really hot oil. And after watching my gauge for 7000 miles I have come to the conclusion my next project is going to be an oil cooler. I have never had one of these apart yet so maybe somebody that has and has studied the lower end oiling system really good can shed some light as to their thoughts on this. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bill Watson wrote:

> > This is the first time that I've heard the oil flow to the top

end of the KLR is sized by a restrictor in the banjo bolt, rather than simply the total of the effective clearances of the items being oiled.

> > This begs the question; if the only oil-related failures EVER in

the KLR are always in the top end, wouldn't opening up the banjo bolt by .010" (or what ever is appropriate) be a popular mod? Talk about reasonably-low effort!

> > A guess a different way to state the same is; are there ever

tranny or crank pin bearing failures from lack of oil?

> > Bill Watson > Phoenix > ---------------------- > From: "klr650klr" > Subject: Oil Pressure gauge > > I found out there is no pressure warm what so > ever in the oil feed line going to the left case and cylinder

head as

> it is controlled by an orifice in the feeding banjo bolt. > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

>And after watching my gauge for 7000 miles I have >come to the conclusion

my next project is going to be >an oil cooler. You are an evil influence! (VBG) There is no better opportunity to learn about the real world characteristics of a system than to follow these kinds of investigations. This is great stuff. Once things warm up it will be interesting to point my infrared thermometer at the cases a bit to get some indication of temperatures..... Hey, didn't someone post oil temperatures... Norm

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

Bill Watson posted: This is the first time that I've heard the oil flow to the top end of the KLR is sized by a restrictor in the banjo bolt, rather than simply the total of the effective clearances of the items being oiled. I also find this to be an interesting subject. Restricting oil flow to the top end is quite common because too much oil flow tends to flood the valve guide seals. IMO the reason for use of a restriction orifice rather than to size the oil delivery passages smaller is that the orifice tends to allow more uniform oil flow through a wider temperature range than would smaller passages. This begs the question; if the only oil-related failures EVER in the KLR are always in the top end, wouldn't opening up the banjo bolt by .010" (or what ever is appropriate) be a popular mod? Talk about reasonably-low effort! Good insight! I hadn't reached that point yet, so thanks for bringing it forward. Due to their abrupt diameter change, orifices are more vulnerable to plugging from debris than are uniformly sized passages. It would be very interesting to do a study of top end failure causes! A guess a different way to state the same is; are there ever tranny or crank pin bearing failures from lack of oil? It is surprising to believe that there are more top end failures than crankshaft failures because the oil supply seal in the side cover seems to be the most vulnerable failure point in many motorcycle engines. Having said that, it does follow that the top end may be simply more vulnerable due to the friction bearing type camshaft bearings. For this reason a reduction in oil pressure in general may simply be seen first as a top end failure. I continue to recommend that attention be paid to the oil supply seal in the side cover of any engine which uses this system. While they do not seem to be a high risk item, it seems "penny wise and pound foolish" to leave a much used seal in place when servicing in that area. What is known about failures? As Bill has pointed out, there is an opportunity to understand failure risks better and there may be a benefit to increasing the restriction orifice a bit. I do caution, however to consider the effect of increasing orifice size. Remember Pi R squared so any increase in diameter will increase flow radically! Norm

[J G]

If your bypass was stuck open it would have lowered your gauge when hot and you would have cought it before damiging the engine. Also remember, when I was installing and testing my gauge and the places to get a reading from it was 105 degees in the summer and pressure goes away fast. Had I been testing in 70 degree weather I'm sure I would have had pressure on the head feed line. As for the gauge, if you get a heavy duty industrial gauge, they can take up to 100 psi without harm in the 30 psi version. Not avalible at the local parts house. I used Davidson Sales in FL as they carry the HD VDO gauges. Thane Silliker wrote: Wow, these pressures are surprising. I would have figured that with the restrictions inherent in the top end oiling system, that measurable pressures would be easy to see. Anyone else put in an oil pressure gauge on the head oil line? Speaking with Norm and Bill on this, and seeing the picture posting of the oil pressure gauge has definitely put this on my to-do list this winter. My 0-30 psi gauge should work well I think. It was pointed out that when cold, it will spend some time pinned and that this may hurt the gauge. I have some experience with gauges, and in my amateur opinion it won't hurt the unit. Those with more experience may be able to shed some light on this idea, however. After a top end meltdown, I am interested in doing this. My oil was dirty and the bypass was stuck open, so maybe a gauge wouldn't have helped. Having three bikes in the stable and no consistent method of tracking which bikes got oil changes certainly didn't help. When I bought the 2002 KLR650 in question, I had thought I changed the oil, when in fact it was probably running factory oil in the spring of 2004 when this whole thing transpired. Oops. Thane London, Ontario IBA #210 STOC #730 At 01:43 AM 27/11/2005, klr650klr wrote:

> tap >into the system was the banjo bolt by the output shaft. > Hot the needle would barly >get to 4 psi at redline and was at 0 when doing 75 down the freeway.

--------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Thane Silliker]

Wow, these pressures are surprising. I would have figured that with the restrictions inherent in the top end oiling system, that measurable pressures would be easy to see. Anyone else put in an oil pressure gauge on the head oil line? Speaking with Norm and Bill on this, and seeing the picture posting of the oil pressure gauge has definitely put this on my to-do list this winter. My 0-30 psi gauge should work well I think. It was pointed out that when cold, it will spend some time pinned and that this may hurt the gauge. I have some experience with gauges, and in my amateur opinion it won't hurt the unit. Those with more experience may be able to shed some light on this idea, however. After a top end meltdown, I am interested in doing this. My oil was dirty and the bypass was stuck open, so maybe a gauge wouldn't have helped. Having three bikes in the stable and no consistent method of tracking which bikes got oil changes certainly didn't help. When I bought the 2002 KLR650 in question, I had thought I changed the oil, when in fact it was probably running factory oil in the spring of 2004 when this whole thing transpired. Oops. Thane London, Ontario IBA #210 STOC #730 At 01:43 AM 27/11/2005, klr650klr wrote:

> tap >into the system was the banjo bolt by the output shaft. > Hot the needle would barly >get to 4 psi at redline and was at 0 when doing 75 down the freeway.

[Bill Watson]

Good conversations, agreed. Data is very useful here.... and yes, I've already monitored oil temps in the sump for an entire year... so before I show you the data, what temps are you hoping to see? My conclusion so far... I'd like to add a oil HEATER, not an oil cooler... let's see... 65 degree morning... 10 minutes into my ride, the oil is only up to 127 F. Brrrr. Bill Watson Phoenix ---------------------------------- From: "April Neave & Norm Keller" Subject: Re: Oil Pressure gauge

>And after watching my gauge for 7000 miles I have >come to the

conclusion my next project is going to be >an oil cooler. You are an evil influence! (VBG) There is no better opportunity to learn about the real world characteristics of a system than to follow these kinds of investigations. This is great stuff. Once things warm up it will be interesting to point my infrared thermometer at the cases a bit to get some indication of temperatures..... Hey, didn't someone post oil temperatures... Norm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]