moab in sping

[Jay]

Hello Everyone, Been a long time since I posted. I'm the creator of the ORIGINAL Duchin Dash, dash board for the KLR 650. It has come to my attention that KLR650.com has stolen my design. They didn't even bother to move the mounting holes to hide their dirty work. I spent many hours working on a variety of prototypes to come up with the final version. I am completely and totally disgusted that they did this. I have never seen such a blatant disregard for one's efforts. I thought this might happen eventually with an overseas manufacturer but to be copied by someone right here in the USA makes me sick! Even with a patent, it would cost me thousands of dollars to go after these unscrupulous vendors. Thousands I don't have. It migth be slander to ask that you not deal with such a backstabbing organisation as KLR650.com so I won't ask that. I do however request you purchase your dash boards directly from myself, Fred at Arrowhead Motorsports or Whitehorse Press. Thanks to everyone who supported me when I first made this and continued good fortune with your KLRs. Regards to all, Jay Duchin Creator of the ORIGINAL KLR 650 DUCHIN DASH.

[Arden Kysely]

When I looked at their site and saw their copies of H-T products, I wrote them off. __Arden

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > Been a long time since I posted. I'm the creator of the ORIGINAL Duchin > Dash, dash board for the KLR 650. It has come to my attention that > KLR650.com has stolen my design. They didn't even bother to move the > mounting holes to hide their dirty work. I spent many hours working on a > variety of prototypes to come up with the final version. I am completely > and totally disgusted that they did this. I have never seen such a blatant > disregard for one's efforts. I thought this might happen eventually with an > overseas manufacturer but to be copied by someone right here in the USA > makes me sick! Even with a patent, it would cost me thousands of dollars to > go after these unscrupulous vendors. Thousands I don't have. > > It migth be slander to ask that you not deal with such a backstabbing > organisation as KLR650.com so I won't ask that. > > I do however request you purchase your dash boards directly from myself, > Fred at Arrowhead Motorsports or Whitehorse Press. > > Thanks to everyone who supported me when I first made this and continued > good fortune with your KLRs. > > Regards to all, > Jay Duchin > Creator of the ORIGINAL KLR 650 DUCHIN DASH. >

[Scott Critchfield]

Hi Jay, I have no idea what you're talking about...I've never heard of a Duchin Dash. I know no-one who's ever heard of a Duchin Dash. I have never, in 35 years of off-road racing and recreational participation, heard a single discussion based upon a Duchin Dash. I have many friends...in many circles - desert racing, motocross, enduro, and dual-sport. We've all survived all these years without a Duchin Dash. I, and most of my friends are perfectly capable of organizing our own instruments, in a fashion that we prefer, as events and circumstances dictate. Perhaps people that have in fact actually heard of the Duchin Dash, and have apparently conspired to screw you in some way or another, have reaped some benefit from what is, apparently, your exclusive design...while not specifically intending to screw you. What we do here on this list is exchange information, so that all may benefit from one another's experience. Personally, I kind of took that for granted, as I freely, and without coercion, decided to be part of an Information Exchange which is available to anyone with a phone line...and that someone, someday, may actually replicate something that I may post. Call me crazy, but I actually factored that in. Call it a reckless afterthought. It would appear that you are in dire need of other interests. Respectfully, Scott Critchfield Alta Loma, CA AMA # 529162 -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:04 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! Hello Everyone, Been a long time since I posted. I'm the creator of the ORIGINAL Duchin Dash, dash board for the KLR 650. It has come to my attention that KLR650.com has stolen my design. They didn't even bother to move the mounting holes to hide their dirty work. I spent many hours working on a variety of prototypes to come up with the final version. I am completely and totally disgusted that they did this. I have never seen such a blatant disregard for one's efforts. I thought this might happen eventually with an overseas manufacturer but to be copied by someone right here in the USA makes me sick! Even with a patent, it would cost me thousands of dollars to go after these unscrupulous vendors. Thousands I don't have. It migth be slander to ask that you not deal with such a backstabbing organisation as KLR650.com so I won't ask that. I do however request you purchase your dash boards directly from myself, Fred at Arrowhead Motorsports or Whitehorse Press. Thanks to everyone who supported me when I first made this and continued good fortune with your KLRs. Regards to all, Jay Duchin Creator of the ORIGINAL KLR 650 DUCHIN DASH. Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Scott Critchfield]

Ever hear of a constitutionally protected thing called a Copyright? Cheers, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 3:04 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! Hello Everyone, Been a long time since I posted. I'm the creator of the ORIGINAL Duchin Dash, dash board for the KLR 650. It has come to my attention that KLR650.com has stolen my design. They didn't even bother to move the mounting holes to hide their dirty work. I spent many hours working on a variety of prototypes to come up with the final version. I am completely and totally disgusted that they did this. I have never seen such a blatant disregard for one's efforts. I thought this might happen eventually with an overseas manufacturer but to be copied by someone right here in the USA makes me sick! Even with a patent, it would cost me thousands of dollars to go after these unscrupulous vendors. Thousands I don't have. It migth be slander to ask that you not deal with such a backstabbing organisation as KLR650.com so I won't ask that. I do however request you purchase your dash boards directly from myself, Fred at Arrowhead Motorsports or Whitehorse Press. Thanks to everyone who supported me when I first made this and continued good fortune with your KLRs. Regards to all, Jay Duchin Creator of the ORIGINAL KLR 650 DUCHIN DASH. Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Chris]

On 11/17/05, Scott Critchfield wrote:

> Hi Jay, > > I have no idea what you're talking about...I've never heard of a Duchin > Dash. I know no-one who's ever heard of a Duchin Dash.

You must be new here, it's one in a list of items developed by long time list participants that those scumbags at klr650.com have shipped overseas to knock off.

> > Perhaps people that have in fact actually heard of the Duchin Dash, and have > apparently conspired to screw you in some way or another, have reaped some > benefit from what is, apparently, your exclusive design...while not > specifically intending to screw you.

Oh no, they mean directly to screw him, they have ripped off several other designs people here have developed.

> > What we do here on this list is exchange information, so that all may > benefit from one another's experience. > > It would appear that you are in dire need of other interests. >

Please refrain from defining what 'we' do here, since you are too new to speak for 'we' in this context.

[Chris Krok]

> From: "Scott Critchfield" > Subject: RE: Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! > > Hi Jay, > > I have no idea what you're talking about...I've never heard of a Duchin > Dash. I know no-one who's ever heard of a Duchin Dash. I have never, in 35 > years of off-road racing and recreational participation, heard a single > discussion based upon a Duchin Dash. I have many friends...in many > circles - desert racing, motocross, enduro, and dual-sport. We've all > survived all these years without a Duchin Dash.

Holy crap, Critchfield, who pissed on your Post-Toasties? Jay has been a worthwhile and respectable member of this group for a long time. For longer than KLR650.com has been known as a source of knock-off products, in fact. I know that Conall will say otherwise, but what KLR650.com does is NOT a manifestation of free enterprise. They do NOT say, "there's an interesting dashboard/fork brace/etc., but I can make a better one." They simply make direct knockoffs. In fact, looking at their page for the dashboard, they state, "Made by Studebaker Mfg. Inc. Manufacture of O.E.M. Parts (So you have a good fitting OEM part and not a cheap Aftermarket part)." News flash, guys: If it doesn't come from Kawi, it's aftermarket. Jay is within his rights to be angry that something posted here wound up making a profit for someone else. If you're not aware of the list policy, vendors are allowed to advertise their wares here on Fridays. Both Jay and I understand that, if someone sees one of our products, they may decide to build one for themselves rather than buy ours. Hell, I do the same thing. However, when someone takes a product that we are selling and sells a duplicate with no permission, licensing, etc., that's b.s. That Constitutional protection is great, but like Jay said, you have to spend the $$ (and time) on a lawyer to benefit from it. Jay and I only run our businesses part-time (at least, I think that's Jay's situation), and what little profits we make would be tapped out quickly. I run my business because it's occasionally fun, and to make a few extra $$ to spend on my KLR. Frankly, I'm looking forward to the day when I make enough money at my day job to say the hell with it. Jay: Sorry to hear about that. I'm waiting for my number to come up there as well. If it happens to enough of us, perhaps we'll have enough resources to fight it. Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok Explosion Dynamics Laboratory John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125

[Denis Dimick]

Like all "free market" items, It's going to boil down to who provides the better product. Anyone could try and compete with Jay or Chris, but I spend my money with people I at least hear are reputable. From everything I keep hearing, klr650.com http://klr650.com> is not going to get my money. Just my two cents, Denis

On 11/17/05, Chris Krok wrote: > > > > From: "Scott Critchfield" > > Subject: RE: Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! > > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I have no idea what you're talking about...I've never heard of a Duchin > > Dash. I know no-one who's ever heard of a Duchin Dash. I have never, in > 35 > > years of off-road racing and recreational participation, heard a single > > discussion based upon a Duchin Dash. I have many friends...in many > > circles - desert racing, motocross, enduro, and dual-sport. We've all > > survived all these years without a Duchin Dash. > > Holy crap, Critchfield, who pissed on your Post-Toasties? Jay has been > a worthwhile and respectable member of this group for a long time. For > longer than KLR650.com has been known as a source of knock-off products, > in fact. I know that Conall will say otherwise, but what KLR650.com > does is NOT a manifestation of free enterprise. They do NOT say, > "there's an interesting dashboard/fork brace/etc., but I can make a > better one." They simply make direct knockoffs. > > In fact, looking at their page for the dashboard, they state, "Made by > Studebaker Mfg. Inc. Manufacture of O.E.M. Parts (So you have a good > fitting OEM part and not a cheap Aftermarket part)." News flash, guys: > If it doesn't come from Kawi, it's aftermarket. > > Jay is within his rights to be angry that something posted here wound up > making a profit for someone else. If you're not aware of the list > policy, vendors are allowed to advertise their wares here on Fridays. > Both Jay and I understand that, if someone sees one of our products, > they may decide to build one for themselves rather than buy ours. Hell, > I do the same thing. However, when someone takes a product that we are > selling and sells a duplicate with no permission, licensing, etc., > that's b.s. > > That Constitutional protection is great, but like Jay said, you have to > spend the $$ (and time) on a lawyer to benefit from it. Jay and I only > run our businesses part-time (at least, I think that's Jay's situation), > and what little profits we make would be tapped out quickly. I run my > business because it's occasionally fun, and to make a few extra $$ to > spend on my KLR. Frankly, I'm looking forward to the day when I make > enough money at my day job to say the hell with it. > > Jay: Sorry to hear about that. I'm waiting for my number to come up > there as well. If it happens to enough of us, perhaps we'll have enough > resources to fight it. > > Krokko > > > > -- > Dr. J. Christopher Krok > Explosion Dynamics Laboratory > John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel > Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.comhttp://www.dualsportnews.com> > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.htmlhttp://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[J T]

Check out their "Aluminum Touring Box Mounts," which look exactly like my SU rack from Happy Trails.

>From: Chris Krok >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] RE: Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! >Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:12:43 -0800 > > > > From: "Scott Critchfield" > > Subject: RE: Stolen design, SCUMBAGS!!! > > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I have no idea what you're talking about...I've never heard of a Duchin > > Dash. I know no-one who's ever heard of a Duchin Dash. I have never, >in 35 > > years of off-road racing and recreational participation, heard a single > > discussion based upon a Duchin Dash. I have many friends...in many > > circles - desert racing, motocross, enduro, and dual-sport. We've all > > survived all these years without a Duchin Dash. > >Holy crap, Critchfield, who pissed on your Post-Toasties? Jay has been >a worthwhile and respectable member of this group for a long time. For >longer than KLR650.com has been known as a source of knock-off products, >in fact. I know that Conall will say otherwise, but what KLR650.com >does is NOT a manifestation of free enterprise. They do NOT say, >"there's an interesting dashboard/fork brace/etc., but I can make a >better one." They simply make direct knockoffs. > >In fact, looking at their page for the dashboard, they state, "Made by >Studebaker Mfg. Inc. Manufacture of O.E.M. Parts (So you have a good >fitting OEM part and not a cheap Aftermarket part)." News flash, guys: >If it doesn't come from Kawi, it's aftermarket. > >Jay is within his rights to be angry that something posted here wound up >making a profit for someone else. If you're not aware of the list >policy, vendors are allowed to advertise their wares here on Fridays. >Both Jay and I understand that, if someone sees one of our products, >they may decide to build one for themselves rather than buy ours. Hell, >I do the same thing. However, when someone takes a product that we are >selling and sells a duplicate with no permission, licensing, etc., >that's b.s. > >That Constitutional protection is great, but like Jay said, you have to >spend the $$ (and time) on a lawyer to benefit from it. Jay and I only >run our businesses part-time (at least, I think that's Jay's situation), >and what little profits we make would be tapped out quickly. I run my >business because it's occasionally fun, and to make a few extra $$ to >spend on my KLR. Frankly, I'm looking forward to the day when I make >enough money at my day job to say the hell with it. > >Jay: Sorry to hear about that. I'm waiting for my number to come up >there as well. If it happens to enough of us, perhaps we'll have enough >resources to fight it. > >Krokko > > > >-- >Dr. J. Christopher Krok >Explosion Dynamics Laboratory >John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel >Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

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[Conall]

> Holy crap, Critchfield, who pissed on your Post-Toasties? Jay has been > a worthwhile and respectable member of this group for a long time. For > longer than KLR650.com has been known as a source of knock-off

products,

> in fact. I know that Conall will say otherwise, but what KLR650.com > does is NOT a manifestation of free enterprise. They do NOT say, > "there's an interesting dashboard/fork brace/etc., but I can make a > better one." They simply make direct knockoffs. >

i don't like this type of dealings either so to speak. I've been on this list a long time and could argue either side of this argument. I have the right to change my mind if I want to but I don't like the tone of this so I'm going defensive and now that I've been dragged into the fray, I'm going to respond. Quite simply,any company that wants to set itself apart from the rest of the market needs to consider intellectual-property protection. I don't believe any patents are pending on any of the products reverse engineered (copied) by Studebaker, correct me if I'm wrong. You could take 5 yrs to develop something, if you don't get patent or copyright protection someone can knock it off overnight. Legal protection of the property is key to securing licensing deals and venture capital. If the parties who feel they have been infringed had a patent or copyright a simple letter to MASH could possibly resolve things short of filing a lawsuit. Conall-

[Jim]

KLR650.COM: What is the owners name and business address, and what is your relationship to it? Personally, I don't buy from businesses that don't list an address up front. Jim A17

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Conall" wrote: > > > > > Holy crap, Critchfield, who pissed on your Post-Toasties? Jay has been > > a worthwhile and respectable member of this group for a long time. For > > longer than KLR650.com has been known as a source of knock-off > products, > > in fact. I know that Conall will say otherwise, but what KLR650.com > > does is NOT a manifestation of free enterprise. They do NOT say, > > "there's an interesting dashboard/fork brace/etc., but I can make a > > better one." They simply make direct knockoffs. > > > > i don't like this type of dealings either so to speak. I've been on > this list a long time and could argue either side of this argument. I > have the right to change my mind if I want to but I don't like the > tone of this so I'm going defensive and now that I've been dragged > into the fray, I'm going to respond. > > Quite simply,any company that wants to set itself apart from the rest > of the market needs to consider intellectual-property protection. > I don't believe any patents are pending on any of the products reverse > engineered (copied) by Studebaker, correct me if I'm wrong. > > You could take 5 yrs to develop something, if you don't get patent or > copyright protection someone can knock it off overnight. > Legal protection of the property is key to securing licensing deals > and venture capital. > If the parties who feel they have been infringed had a patent or > copyright a simple letter to MASH could possibly resolve things short > of filing a lawsuit. > > > Conall- >