"the tire changing blues"

[sethshaun]

hey geeks and goils, a kawasaki mechanic told me that the problem with the doohickey was fixed for the 2005 models. this is the first i have heard this mentioned. did he feed me a bunch of horse poop flavored pop-tarts or am i just very niave and uninformed? i still plan on replacing mine unless a bunch of you start yelling at me that i am dumb and i should have known that already. seth

[wannabsmooth1]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sethshaun" wrote:

> > hey geeks and goils, a kawasaki mechanic told me that the problem with > the doohickey was fixed for the 2005 models. this is the first i have > heard this mentioned. did he feed me a bunch of horse poop flavored > pop-tarts or am i just very niave and uninformed? > i still plan on replacing mine unless a bunch of you start yelling at > me that i am dumb and i should have known that already. > seth >

To clarify: All years (2006 back to the change to the welded part in about 1990) have the same parts in there. I've replaced 2006 models. They are the same. Anyone that says different doesn't know what they are talking about. Some of the part numbers got switched when the production was moved. The earlier stamped parts fail too, just usually take longer. I know Pat won't agree, and I make the parts, but I've been into the left side of more motors than anyone else here. Even if the parts are not broken - they will not adjust more properly than 80% of the time, even on a bike with 325 miles on it. I did one at Fred's tech day in Moab. We opened the left side of a 2005, loosened the adjuster bolt, tapped on the case, the lever did not move. After I hit the right side of it with a screwdriver handle, it moved a little, then ran out of spring tension. Most important here - the dealer and the service guys know a lot less about the KLR than many people on this list. I had a call from a guy in Ontario, Canada, in a motorcycle shop - spoke to him this morning. He's seen 2 engines lunched due to the balancer lever failure. Kawasaki paid for one, it was still under warranty. The other had the cam chain evidently jump time when some parts went through the chain/sprocket interface, causing the top end to lunch parts, just out of warranty. The warranted engine cost Kawasaki some serious $$, as the shop corrctly decided to go completely through the engine to be sure what was damaged and needed replacement. 6K Kilometers on the warranted engine. all the best, Mike

[Scott Critchfield]

Well said, Mike. I'm no Kawasaki expert, but based upon my understanding, that pretty well sums it up. Seth: Whether or not the problem has been solved by Kawasaki, you absolutely must see Mike's version of the cam chain tensioner lever. If I could afford to, I'd have Mike redesign at least 30% of all parts, on all of my bikes, to such a level of engineering and machining quality. That's just my two cents, and it's only a friendly observation. Cheers, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of wannabsmooth1 Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:30 PM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: kawasaki mechanic told me doohickey was not issue

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sethshaun" wrote: > > hey geeks and goils, a kawasaki mechanic told me that the problem with > the doohickey was fixed for the 2005 models. this is the first i have > heard this mentioned. did he feed me a bunch of horse poop flavored > pop-tarts or am i just very niave and uninformed? > i still plan on replacing mine unless a bunch of you start yelling at > me that i am dumb and i should have known that already. > seth > To clarify: All years (2006 back to the change to the welded part in about 1990) have the same parts in there. I've replaced 2006 models. They are the same. Anyone that says different doesn't know what they are talking about. Some of the part numbers got switched when the production was moved. The earlier stamped parts fail too, just usually take longer. I know Pat won't agree, and I make the parts, but I've been into the left side of more motors than anyone else here. Even if the parts are not broken - they will not adjust more properly than 80% of the time, even on a bike with 325 miles on it. I did one at Fred's tech day in Moab. We opened the left side of a 2005, loosened the adjuster bolt, tapped on the case, the lever did not move. After I hit the right side of it with a screwdriver handle, it moved a little, then ran out of spring tension. Most important here - the dealer and the service guys know a lot less about the KLR than many people on this list. I had a call from a guy in Ontario, Canada, in a motorcycle shop - spoke to him this morning. He's seen 2 engines lunched due to the balancer lever failure. Kawasaki paid for one, it was still under warranty. The other had the cam chain evidently jump time when some parts went through the chain/sprocket interface, causing the top end to lunch parts, just out of warranty. The warranted engine cost Kawasaki some serious $$, as the shop corrctly decided to go completely through the engine to be sure what was damaged and needed replacement. 6K Kilometers on the warranted engine. all the best, Mike Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links

[J T]

An amazing part of this story is that the Kawasaki mechanic even acknowledged that there IS a problem with the doohickey. One mechanic told me that he's replaced doohickies on other bikes with the stock part from the KLR--"that's how good they are." Not sure if that's even possible, but that's what he told me.

>--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sethshaun" wrote: > > > > hey geeks and goils, a kawasaki mechanic told me that the problem with > > the doohickey was fixed for the 2005 models. this is the first i have > > heard this mentioned. did he feed me a bunch of horse poop flavored > > pop-tarts or am i just very niave and uninformed? > > i still plan on replacing mine unless a bunch of you start yelling at > > me that i am dumb and i should have known that already. > > seth > > >To clarify: > >All years (2006 back to the change to the welded part in about 1990) >have the same parts in there. I've replaced 2006 models. They are the >same. Anyone that says different doesn't know what they are talking >about. Some of the part numbers got switched when the production was >moved. The earlier stamped parts fail too, just usually take longer. I >know Pat won't agree, and I make the parts, but I've been into the >left side of more motors than anyone else here. > >Even if the parts are not broken - they will not adjust more properly >than 80% of the time, even on a bike with 325 miles on it. I did one >at Fred's tech day in Moab. We opened the left side of a 2005, >loosened the adjuster bolt, tapped on the case, the lever did not >move. After I hit the right side of it with a screwdriver handle, it >moved a little, then ran out of spring tension. > >Most important here - the dealer and the service guys know a lot less >about the KLR than many people on this list. > >I had a call from a guy in Ontario, Canada, in a motorcycle shop - >spoke to him this morning. He's seen 2 engines lunched due to the >balancer lever failure. Kawasaki paid for one, it was still under >warranty. The other had the cam chain evidently jump time when some >parts went through the chain/sprocket interface, causing the top end >to lunch parts, just out of warranty. The warranted engine cost >Kawasaki some serious $$, as the shop corrctly decided to go >completely through the engine to be sure what was damaged and needed >replacement. 6K Kilometers on the warranted engine. > >all the best, > >Mike > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >

_________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[Jim]

RUN, don't look back and hold onto your wallet. --Jim A-15

> An amazing part of this story is that the Kawasaki mechanic even > acknowledged that there IS a problem with the doohickey. One

mechanic told

> me that he's replaced doohickies on other bikes with the stock part

from the

> KLR--"that's how good they are." Not sure if that's even possible, but > that's what he told me.

[Michael Silverstein]

This sounds like a great way to qualify your mechanic. If they answer the doohickey question wrong, then don't trust them to do anything more difficult than changing a tire. I often ask sales people questions that I know the answer to in order to gage whether I can trust their answers to questions about things I don't know about. It is absolutely amazing how much B.S. many sales people will throw your way instead of simply saying, "I don't know but if you wait a minute I'll go find out". Mike A18

> -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J T > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 9:30 AM > To: eaglemike@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [DSN_KLR650] Re: kawasaki mechanic told me > doohickey was not issue > > > > An amazing part of this story is that the Kawasaki mechanic even > acknowledged that there IS a problem with the doohickey. > One mechanic told > me that he's replaced doohickies on other bikes with the > stock part from the > KLR--"that's how good they are." Not sure if that's even > possible, but > that's what he told me. > > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sethshaun" > wrote: > > > > > > hey geeks and goils, a kawasaki mechanic told me that the problem > > > with the doohickey was fixed for the 2005 models. this > is the first > > > i have heard this mentioned. did he feed me a bunch of > horse poop > > > flavored pop-tarts or am i just very niave and > uninformed? i still > > > plan on replacing mine unless a bunch of you start yelling at me > > > that i am dumb and i should have known that already. seth > > > > >To clarify: > > > >All years (2006 back to the change to the welded part in about 1990) > >have the same parts in there. I've replaced 2006 models. > They are the > >same. Anyone that says different doesn't know what they are talking > >about. Some of the part numbers got switched when the production was > >moved. The earlier stamped parts fail too, just usually take > longer. I > >know Pat won't agree, and I make the parts, but I've been > into the left > >side of more motors than anyone else here. > > > >Even if the parts are not broken - they will not adjust more > properly > >than 80% of the time, even on a bike with 325 miles on it. I > did one at > >Fred's tech day in Moab. We opened the left side of a 2005, loosened > >the adjuster bolt, tapped on the case, the lever did not > move. After I > >hit the right side of it with a screwdriver handle, it moved > a little, > >then ran out of spring tension. > > > >Most important here - the dealer and the service guys know a > lot less > >about the KLR than many people on this list. > > > >I had a call from a guy in Ontario, Canada, in a motorcycle shop - > >spoke to him this morning. He's seen 2 engines lunched due to the > >balancer lever failure. Kawasaki paid for one, it was still under > >warranty. The other had the cam chain evidently jump time when some > >parts went through the chain/sprocket interface, causing the > top end to > >lunch parts, just out of warranty. The warranted engine cost > Kawasaki > >some serious $$, as the shop corrctly decided to go > completely through > >the engine to be sure what was damaged and needed replacement. 6K > >Kilometers on the warranted engine. > > > >all the best, > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: > >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan > from McAfee > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650> _data_search.html > List > sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release > Date: 10/19/2005 > >

-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 10/19/2005

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

The spring on my 2005 was broken when I checked it just under 3,000 miles. Draw your own conclusions, but change the doohickey is my advice. Norm

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

In fairness to mechanics, the KLR is not a problem prone series so they don't see a lot of them. In addition, the number which have a noticeable doohickey issue even though the spring is broken is likely only a small percentage of those. There is far more KLR experience on this list then one will find in a bevy of shops so issues are revealed here which will not be identified by individual mechanics. Those people are simply reporting (in most cases) what they have seen in the course of their work. The fact that they don't know of a trend with doohickey problems doesn't make them incompetent, brainwashed or in any other way unfit. Point Dave at our local dealership at a bike he has never seen before and he'll come out of the task far better than the most informed amateur even though he doesn't know that the series won the most dirt road orientation competitions in Somalia in 2003.... If one is trying to measure, one must make sure that one is using an appropriate scale.... I see over 300 automotive techs each week and hear the most foolish blather from amateurs regarding the competency of professionals. Most of the time it simply doesn't wash. You might also wish to consider whether you would prefer that the mechanic tell you what he knows from experience and genuinely believes to be true, or whether you would prefer that he ask what you think and then enthusiastically agree with you...... FWIW Norm

[Thor Lancelot Simon]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 08:25:07PM -0700, April Neave & Norm Keller wrote:

> In fairness to mechanics, the KLR is not a problem prone series so they > don't see a lot of them. In addition, the number which have a noticeable > doohickey issue even though the spring is broken is likely only a small > percentage of those. > > There is far more KLR experience on this list then one will find in a bevy > of shops so issues are revealed here which will not be identified by > individual mechanics. Those people are simply reporting (in most cases) what > they have seen in the course of their work. The fact that they don't know of > a trend with doohickey problems doesn't make them incompetent, brainwashed > or in any other way unfit.

You're right -- so far as you go. But I don't think that's what most people complaining about Kawasaki dealership mechanics are complaining about; rather, they're complaining (in this case anyway) about a propensity to *lie* when confronted with a situation they haven't seen before, or (when it suits their purpose) even one that they have. If the absurd claim we're talking about right now isn't enough -- the claim that the KLR doohickey is "so good I sometimes install it in other bikes" -- consider some of the other dealership howlers we've heard of lately, like the claim that a lister's wheel bearings failed after dealership tire replacement because the lister "didn't torque the axle properly and it came loose" -- with a cotter pin installed! There are plenty more. I know there are good motorcycle mechanics, including some really great ones at Kawasaki dealerships. But by and large, I think there's a world of difference between Joey Eight-Tatoos at your average bike dealership and Bob Tech at your average car dealership (which is not to say that car dealerships are fantastic -- they're not. But they're a heck of a lot better than bike dealerships). Some of that difference has to do with the level of competence and training required to get and keep the job, and some of it has to do with accountability. There seems to be a culture of dishonesty that is pervasive at many motorcycle dealerships and the techs seem to actively participate in it, without any real negative consequences. Of course it's not reasonable to expect any given bike mechanic to have torn down a KLR engine on a yearly basis -- or even at all -- and to know its ins and outs like an owner who does his own maintenance. But it is reasonable to expect him to not make up outrageous lies, too. I think there would be a lot less bad feeling towards Kawasaki if they'd take steps to stop that, rather than often seeming to tacitly encourage it. Thor

[wannabsmooth1]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "April Neave & Norm Keller" wrote:

> > In fairness to mechanics, the KLR is not a problem prone series so they > don't see a lot of them. In addition, the number which have a noticeable > doohickey issue even though the spring is broken is likely only a small > percentage of those. > > There is far more KLR experience on this list then one will find in

a bevy

> of shops so issues are revealed here which will not be identified by > individual mechanics. Those people are simply reporting (in most

cases) what

> they have seen in the course of their work. The fact that they don't

know of

> a trend with doohickey problems doesn't make them incompetent,

brainwashed

> or in any other way unfit.

SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> FWIW > > Norm >

Norm, What really gets me cranked up is when they blow smoke. If the guy would "gee, I've never heard of or seen a problem" that would be different and understandable, to me anyway. The comment that he puts it in other bikes "because it's so good" I find pretty difficult to believe - the whole room must have filled with smoke..... I've had a little experience with what is supposed to be the best local Japanese dealership, speaking with the guy in charge of service - trying to get my FJR fixed when it wasn't set up properly as new. It was a trying experience even though I was always positive and complimentary, etc. I think it's sort of difficult to find a really good wrench at the mega dealerships. The local BMW dealership is a very different story, than goodness. Thank goodness we can help each other out here on the list, and others like this. all the best, Mike