nklr help! my brother in law wants a bike (and my mother in law ain

[sbcglobal]

Yes, and they've known it at least since we bought Louisiana from the French. Couldn't be that any responsibility lies with the New Orleans city officials who issued building permits in know flood plains. Hmmmm, how can we tie THAT to Bush??? Chuck

----- Original Message ----- From: Conall To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:05 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR Stupid Bush quote of the day "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." - well except for CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, (yep Fox too), NOAA, the Louisiana Governor, the New Orleans Mayor, National Geographic, LSU, The Weather Channel, Army Corps of Engineers, New Orleans Fire, Mrs. Peterson's kindrgarten class at Fletcher Elementary in Omaha....basically anyone with a brain (which excludes Dear Leader). What a pathetic loser, too busy confering how their going to FUCK AMERICA NEXT to be concerned about a Hurricane 4 OR 5 that's about to HIT NEW ORLEANS! Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric Lee Green]

scott quillen wrote:

>Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20... > >

I don't care about the past. I care about what's happening now. I was no fan of Bill Clinton. I spent most of Clinton's administration as part of the fight against his attempts to turn the Internet into a Big Brother style monitoring system where encryption was illegal unless it piped everything straight to NSA headquarters. But at least the Adulterer in Chief's administration was *competent*. After the last big hurricane to hit Florida during his administration, there were tens of thousands of National Guardsmen with water trucks and portable generators and combat dozers and duece-and-a-halfs full of MRE's all over the friggin' place, maintaining order and making sure that at least people didn't die of thirst and starvation until things got cleared up. FEMA coordinators were on the ground in every major area directing volunteers and supplies to where they were most needed. That's not happening in South Louisiana right now, neither in New Orleans, or in the areas south of New Orleans which are similarly underwater. The 1500 National Guardsmen left in Louisiana have been left to do it all (the rest are in Iraq), despite not having the equipment or any weapons to do it with (the weapons and ammunition are all in Iraq -- that's right, the Louisiana National Guard doesn't even have *M-16's*, because they were stripped from the Guard armories to ship to Iraq). Requests for federal troops met with nothing but silence for days. There's no coordination at all from FEMA, the FEMA district director in Baton Rouge gives interviews where it is obvious that he is completely and utterly clueless e.g. when a reporter asks him about the refugees in the Convention Center and the patients in the two charity hospitals in New Orleans he looks visibly shocked and says he thought those people had been evacuated.The mayor of New Orleans, the governor of Louisiana, the Parish Manager of St. Bernard Parish, etc. have all been pleading and begging for help, and help has been very, very slow to come. I mean, it took three days -- THREE DAYS -- for the Army Ranger combat controller team to be called in to re-open the New Orleans airport to aid flights. These guys are mobile, ready, and can be deployed on 24 hours notice, so this means it took TWO DAYS before the Washington publicity whores that are our federal government realized that hey, we're going to look really really bad in the newspapers if we don't get aid flights going into that airport. Meanwhile the Mayor of New Orleans looks increasingly exhausting and bedraggled on the sat-phone vidphone interviews he's doing, and starts asking "Where's the beef? Where's the aid? Have we been abandoned?".

>Many valid points...HOWEVER...New Orleans was a >DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN!!! > >

Indeed, and I'm not going to blame the current administration for that. New Orleans dodged the bullet so many times over the years that there was always a lack of urgency about fixing the situation, a lack of urgency that was unwarranted but understandable. Louisiana did not itself have the resources to fix the situation. A small poor state of 5 million people just didn't have the money for that -- I mean, the entire state budget is less than 18 billion dollars, of which 6 billion dollars is federal highway and social services funding and another 3 billion dollars is matching funds needed to receive those 6 billion dollars (i.e., half the state budget is dictated by the federal government and can't be spent on things like, e.g., raising levees). It would have taken over a billion dollars a year for 20 years to fix things (or roughly 5% of the corporate welfare sent to Archer-Daniels-Midland every year). Fixing it by reducing ADM's farm subsidies and redirecting the money to New Orleans in order to insure that the port ADM uses to export its grain was secure was not on anybody's priority list because it wasn't visible as a line item on ADM's quarterly profit-loss statement (I'm singling out ADM because they've been the biggest recipient of corporate welfare over the years -- the amount of corporate welfare they get every year is bigger than the State of Louisiana's entire state budget -- and this event is going to directly hit their bottom line, but any number of short-sighted corporate welfare whores could be put in their place). So other than the frantic plea that New Orleans was sinking into the sea every year at Washington budget time, there was little they could do, and adopted an almost fatalistic attitude toward the situation. That said, I am apalled and disgusted that the Bush Administration's inability to manage its way out of a paper bag is killing thousands of people in New Orleans. A PR op is *NOT* governing! Governing means getting the people and supplies to where they're needed, it doesn't mean stepping in front of cameras and issuing glowing reports about how many schools have been painted and how many parks have been reconstructed! Oops, wrong incompetence, but you get the point. Having enough people in the right places doing the right thing is governing. Going to San Diego and making a glowing speech about how many goodies the federal government has sent to warehouses in Baton Rouge where they're not reaching the people in need is NOT governing. It's just media whoring by the Cheerleader-in-Chief, and as a native Louisianian, it is *NOT* appreciated. -E

[Eric Lee Green]

Rick McCauley wrote:

>It amazes me how different the people of New Orleans responded to a disaster, than the people of New York reacted. Those people in New York stood together, prayed together, and worked their fingers to the bone together. The people in New Orleans rape, and shoot each other. >

The people of New York were not abandoned by the rest of the nation. The people of New Orleans were, it has been four days now and they have seen nothing from outside, no help, no aid, nothing but what they've managed to do for themselves with what few resources are not underwater. The people of New York also had a working infrastructure. New Orlean's infrastructure is underwater, no food, no water, no communications, nothing. And the raping and shooting BTW is restricted to a very small portion of the population, but gets all the media whore attention because it looks good on film and hey, they're just darkies so it's not as if giving the nation a distorted picture of them is any big deal, right? Right?! What you folks are not seeing is the vast vast volunteer effort being undertaken. While New Orleans has apparently been abandoned by the federal government, there are now literally thousands of private boats doing search-and-rescue and bringing in small amounts of food and water. Acadian Ambulance Service is using their four air ambulances to do what they can, flying in to the places where it's safe to fly in bringing medical supplies from Lafayette and Baton Rouge and New Iberia. The local charter bus services are donating use of their busses to haul people to refugee sites. School districts are donating use of their busses too.Cities and schools around the state have opened up school gyms and auditoriums to temporarily house the 1/5th of their population that is now homeless. The problem is that this volunteer effort is literally overwhelmed by the scope of the disaster. Louisiana is a small poor state, and just does not have the resources to handle this on its own especially with 20% of its infrastructure underwater, but has thus far been largely abandoned and left to handle it on its own. Maybe now that troops are actually being staged into the area that will change, but I've been disgusted and depressed by what I've seen so far.

[matteeanne@yahoo.com]

Well gosh, two days before the storm the feds were sending assistance, and there is tons of assistance there right now, and still more on the way. Funny how these facts are lost to some. (Cmon Fred stop this before we have KLR vigilantes!) Let's see, I have seen video of looters shooting at aid halicopters, I have seen video of cops looting walmart, i have seen video of ghastly crimes, I have seen video of people attacking Guardsmen, Red Cross, and Fema workers, and I have yet to see video of those in peril doing anything to help themselves. Damn that George Bush! --- Eric Lee Green wrote:

> scott quillen wrote: > > >Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20... > > > > > I don't care about the past. I care about what's > happening now. I was no > fan of Bill Clinton. I spent most of Clinton's > administration as part of > the fight against his attempts to turn the Internet > into a Big Brother > style monitoring system where encryption was illegal > unless it piped > everything straight to NSA headquarters. But at > least the Adulterer in > Chief's administration was *competent*. After the > last big hurricane to > hit Florida during his administration, there were > tens of thousands of > National Guardsmen with water trucks and portable > generators and combat > dozers and duece-and-a-halfs full of MRE's all over > the friggin' place, > maintaining order and making sure that at least > people didn't die of > thirst and starvation until things got cleared up. > FEMA coordinators > were on the ground in every major area directing > volunteers and supplies > to where they were most needed. That's not happening > in South Louisiana > right now, neither in New Orleans, or in the areas > south of New Orleans > which are similarly underwater. The 1500 National > Guardsmen left in > Louisiana have been left to do it all (the rest are > in Iraq), despite > not having the equipment or any weapons to do it > with (the weapons and > ammunition are all in Iraq -- that's right, the > Louisiana National Guard > doesn't even have *M-16's*, because they were > stripped from the Guard > armories to ship to Iraq). Requests for federal > troops met with nothing > but silence for days. There's no coordination at all > from FEMA, the FEMA > district director in Baton Rouge gives interviews > where it is obvious > that he is completely and utterly clueless e.g. when > a reporter asks him > about the refugees in the Convention Center and the > patients in the two > charity hospitals in New Orleans he looks visibly > shocked and says he > thought those people had been evacuated.The mayor of > New Orleans, the > governor of Louisiana, the Parish Manager of St. > Bernard Parish, etc. > have all been pleading and begging for help, and > help has been very, > very slow to come. I mean, it took three days -- > THREE DAYS -- for the > Army Ranger combat controller team to be called in > to re-open the New > Orleans airport to aid flights. These guys are > mobile, ready, and can be > deployed on 24 hours notice, so this means it took > TWO DAYS before the > Washington publicity whores that are our federal > government realized > that hey, we're going to look really really bad in > the newspapers if we > don't get aid flights going into that airport. > Meanwhile the Mayor of > New Orleans looks increasingly exhausting and > bedraggled on the > sat-phone vidphone interviews he's doing, and starts > asking "Where's the > beef? Where's the aid? Have we been abandoned?". > > >Many valid points...HOWEVER...New Orleans was a > >DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN!!! > > > > > > Indeed, and I'm not going to blame the current > administration for that. > New Orleans dodged the bullet so many times over the > years that there > was always a lack of urgency about fixing the > situation, a lack of > urgency that was unwarranted but understandable. > Louisiana did not > itself have the resources to fix the situation. A > small poor state of 5 > million people just didn't have the money for that > -- I mean, the entire > state budget is less than 18 billion dollars, of > which 6 billion dollars > is federal highway and social services funding and > another 3 billion > dollars is matching funds needed to receive those 6 > billion dollars > (i.e., half the state budget is dictated by the > federal government and > can't be spent on things like, e.g., raising > levees). It would have > taken over a billion dollars a year for 20 years to > fix things (or > roughly 5% of the corporate welfare sent to > Archer-Daniels-Midland every > year). Fixing it by reducing ADM's farm subsidies > and redirecting the > money to New Orleans in order to insure that the > port ADM uses to export > its grain was secure was not on anybody's priority > list because it > wasn't visible as a line item on ADM's quarterly > profit-loss statement > (I'm singling out ADM because they've been the > biggest recipient of > corporate welfare over the years -- the amount of > corporate welfare they > get every year is bigger than the State of > Louisiana's entire state > budget -- and this event is going to directly hit > their bottom line, but > any number of short-sighted corporate welfare whores > could be put in > their place). So other than the frantic plea that > New Orleans was > sinking into the sea every year at Washington budget > time, there was > little they could do, and adopted an almost > fatalistic attitude toward > the situation. > > That said, I am apalled and disgusted that the Bush > Administration's > inability to manage its way out of a paper bag is > killing thousands of > people in New Orleans. A PR op is *NOT* governing! > Governing means > getting the people and supplies to where they're > needed, it doesn't mean > stepping in front of cameras and issuing glowing > reports about how many > schools have been painted and how many parks have > been reconstructed! > Oops, wrong incompetence, but you get the point. > Having enough people in > the right places doing the right thing is governing. > Going to San Diego > and making a glowing speech about how many goodies > the federal > government has sent to warehouses in Baton Rouge > where they're not > reaching the people in need is NOT governing. It's > just media whoring by > the Cheerleader-in-Chief, and as a native > Louisianian, it is *NOT* > appreciated. > > -E > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

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[Spot ON]

I grew up in Nawlins. I consider it my home. I'm half Cajun french (of Terrrebonne ancestry), and a little bit african american, at least from the waist down. My great great grandfather was killed in a hurricane offshore on a shrimp boat and I've gone through a couple myself. So there is some history there. It kills me to see my city destroyed. It kills me to see savages terrorizing their own neighborhoods. You can't blame the president. You can't blame the worthless mayor or govenor. It's just tragedy of New Orleans. It will always be a tragic place and it comes down to people not taking responsibility for themselves. All my people got out of the city and are safe because they took responsibility for themselves and will only ask assitance if it absolutely necessary. They're not blaming anybody but that big bitch KATRINA. Erik in San Diego --- Eric Lee Green wrote:

> Rick McCauley wrote: > > >It amazes me how different the people of New > Orleans responded to a disaster, than the people of > New York reacted. Those people in New York stood > together, prayed together, and worked their fingers > to the bone together. The people in New Orleans > rape, and shoot each other. > > > The people of New York were not abandoned by the > rest of the nation. The > people of New Orleans were, it has been four days > now and they have seen > nothing from outside, no help, no aid, nothing but > what they've managed > to do for themselves with what few resources are not > underwater. The > people of New York also had a working > infrastructure. New Orlean's > infrastructure is underwater, no food, no water, no > communications, > nothing. And the raping and shooting BTW is > restricted to a very small > portion of the population, but gets all the media > whore attention > because it looks good on film and hey, they're just > darkies so it's not > as if giving the nation a distorted picture of them > is any big deal, > right? Right?! > > What you folks are not seeing is the vast vast > volunteer effort being > undertaken. While New Orleans has apparently been > abandoned by the > federal government, there are now literally > thousands of private boats > doing search-and-rescue and bringing in small > amounts of food and water. > Acadian Ambulance Service is using their four air > ambulances to do what > they can, flying in to the places where it's safe to > fly in bringing > medical supplies from Lafayette and Baton Rouge and > New Iberia. The > local charter bus services are donating use of their > busses to haul > people to refugee sites. School districts are > donating use of their > busses too.Cities and schools around the state have > opened up school > gyms and auditoriums to temporarily house the 1/5th > of their population > that is now homeless. The problem is that this > volunteer effort is > literally overwhelmed by the scope of the disaster. > Louisiana is a small > poor state, and just does not have the resources to > handle this on its > own especially with 20% of its infrastructure > underwater, but has thus > far been largely abandoned and left to handle it on > its own. Maybe now > that troops are actually being staged into the area > that will change, > but I've been disgusted and depressed by what I've > seen so far. > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

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[Eric Lee Green]

matteeanne@... wrote:

>Well gosh, two days before the storm the feds were >sending assistance, and there is tons of assistance >there right now, and still more on the way. Funny how > >

Where is it, then? The mayor of New Orleans says he hasn't seen it. And he's there on the ground. He should know. He's there. Press releases and speeches about how much aid is being sent are not aid. Aid sitting in warehouses in Baton Rouge and not getting to the people who need it is not aid. I call bullsh*t. Go to http://www.nola.com and read. READ. This is the New Orleans Times-Picayune. They are getting the reports in real time from people who are managing to get out of New Orleans as to what the situation is like there. It is horrible. Horrible horrible horrible. The aid is starting to *finally* get in, but slowly, far more slowly than should be the case.

>I have yet to see video of those in peril doing >anything to help themselves. >

Like I said, video focuses on exciting things, and thousands of volunteers in boats shuttling survivors to downtown New Orleans and bringing in a supplies for the cops and fire department so they can keep going (unfortunately small boats just can't carry much) is just not exciting, not to mention that people who have nothing because it's under 20 feet of water can't do much for themselves. Go to http://www.nola.com and read. Go to http://www.nola.com and you will see an entire blog site devoted to the unorganized volunteer effort, like the guy from the North Shore who went down to his home, found it destroyed but his boat was still usable, and used his boat to rescue hundreds of people. The entire city's infrastructure is destroyed. There's nothing left to help themselves with, nothing at all. Parts outside the city aren't much better off. But they're doing what they can with what little they've managed to salvage from the debris. As for calling the mayor of New Orleans "worthless", he has nothing to work with except 1500 exhausted, hungry, thirsty cops who have to break into the Wal-mart in order to get basic food and supplies to keep themselves going because nothing is reaching them from outside (this, BTW, is allowed under Louisiana state law during a state of emergency, police are allowed to take anything they need in order to deal with the emergency, you can call this "looting" but they call it "survival"). When the city's entire infrastructure is underwater, there's just no "there" there, he's doing the best he can with what little he has. As for the Governor of Louisiana, 1/5th of the population of the state is now homeless, 1/3rd of the state's resources are destroyed or unusable including all (every one) of the state's Class A medical facilities, and the few National Guard troops she has available to her are unarmed except for personal weapons because their rifles are in Iraq (along with most of the rest of the Louisiana National Guard). What exactly is she supposed to do? Other than what she is doing, which is rounding up school busses from around the state and Sheriff's deputies from around the state and routing them towards New Orleans, and beg and plead for help from outside the state? This disaster is bigger than any small poor state could handle. They need help, and thankfully it is finally getting there. But it is fair to ask how many hundreds or thousands of people could have been saved if it had gotten there earlier. BTW, I've known Blanco for a long, long time, ever since her days as a Lafayette city/parish councilwoman. She is a very competent and intelligent leader. My understanding is that the Mayor of New Orleans is also a very competent and intelligent leader, he is a businessman who won in an upset victory over the corrupt politicos who usually run New Orleans politics and he had a very good reputation in the area as an honest man who was cleaning up the corruption. But they need help. This is just too much for them to handle with the few resources left to them. Thankfully they're finally getting it. I just find it bizarre that the true scope of this disaster seems to be being blamed on the victims, especially the 23% of New Orleans residents who had no cars due to being too poor or not needing one (due to the excellent public transit system) and thus had no way to get out of town other than taking a bus (which quit running on Saturday) or hitching a ride with someone else. A lot of people did get out of town that way, but that still leaves a lot of people in harm's way. We can definitely blame the mayor and Governor for not figuring out some way to evacuate that 23% of the population that had no cars, but blaming the victims is just plain sick. Sick sick sick sick sick.

[Don Bittle]

>I grew up in Nawlins. I consider it my home. I'm > half Cajun french (of Terrrebonne ancestry > > It kills me to see my city destroyed.>

I feel your pain, as they say. We spent 6 weeks in NO and cajun country this spring and I'm in love with both areas. NO has got lots of problems, like Chicago, NY, Philly, Phoenix ...... But, I expect that within 6 months, we'll be sitting at the Cafe Dumond and eating Fatburgers and shuttling on the ferry and riding the streetcars and throwing beads and dancing at Papa Joes and drinking Hurricanes at Pat O'Brians and talking to the mule drivers and that the city will be better than ever. Let's be optimistic and hope the Guard kills most of the vermin that prey on the weak and that the pumping system is made up to date. Below sea level? A small point. Just ask the Dutch. don

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Sep 2, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Don Bittle wrote:

> But, I expect that within 6 months, we'll be sitting at the Cafe > Dumond and > eating Fatburgers and shuttling on the ferry and riding the > streetcars and > throwing beads and dancing at Papa Joes and drinking Hurricanes at Pat > O'Brians and talking to the mule drivers and that the city will be > better > than ever.

I wish it would be so, but I believe the damage is far too great to allow that. All the chemicals floating around in the water are going to make the place very difficult to clean up.

> Below sea level? A small point. Just ask the Dutch.

Yes, but the Dutch don't have Category 5 hurricanes and their land isn't continually sinking like New Orleans' is. We've got a heck of a difficult situation. -- Blake Sobiloff San Jose, CA (USA)

[Jim]

> Where is it, then? The mayor of New Orleans says he hasn't seen it. > he's there on the ground. He should know. He's there.

Perhaps it's next to all these busses now sitting usless in the water when they should have been used (by the mayor) to get the poor folks out BEFORE the storm hit. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015>

> who had no cars due to being too poor or not needing one (due to the > excellent public transit system) and thus had no way to get out of town > other than taking a bus (which quit running on Saturday) > blame the mayor and Governor for not figuring out some way to evacuate > that 23% of the population that had no cars,

Again look at the picture in the link and rerethink your position on the effectivness of the NO mayor and LA gov. --Jim A-15

[scott quillen]

Blake, You make good points and my response is not directed at you but the others on this list who believe they could do such a MUCH BETTER job of providing relief than those currently involved in that process. The arrogance displayed by some on this list is mind-boggling! Typical Monday-morning quarterbacking... "the govt. should do this or do that" "the response is too little too late" "the administration has their head up their arse..." People...you need to get a grip...this is the worst natural disaster experienced by this country since what...1906 or whenever that quake was in SF??? Some of y'all act like we shoulda been training/preparing all along on how to deal with a disaster of this scope...GET REAL!!! This IS A FIRST of its kind!!!! How 'bout trying to help instead of bashing the crap out of those who actually are makinng an effort...even if you don't believe it's adequate. Some of these posts on this subject just make me SICK!!! What have you done to help the situation??? Scott --- Blake Sobiloff wrote:

> On Sep 2, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Don Bittle wrote: > > But, I expect that within 6 months, we'll be > sitting at the Cafe > > Dumond and > > eating Fatburgers and shuttling on the ferry and > riding the > > streetcars and > > throwing beads and dancing at Papa Joes and > drinking Hurricanes at Pat > > O'Brians and talking to the mule drivers and that > the city will be > > better > > than ever. > > I wish it would be so, but I believe the damage is > far too great to > allow that. All the chemicals floating around in the > water are going > to make the place very difficult to clean up. > > > Below sea level? A small point. Just ask the > Dutch. > > Yes, but the Dutch don't have Category 5 hurricanes > and their land > isn't continually sinking like New Orleans' is. > We've got a heck of > a difficult situation. > -- > Blake Sobiloff > San Jose, CA (USA) > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

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