hey, that paraffin thing is bogus!

[April Neave & Norm Keller]

The political correctness, racist, stupid/insensitive, intolerant, misunderstanding and desire to beat up on others which surround so many of these interactions makes it nearly impossible to say or do anything without attracting the ire of someone these days. The problem with any of these things is that they are like fly paper once someone objects. You simply cannot get unstuck! Anything you say or do is not enough for some and seen as an attempt to justify by others. I taught in a college where we had some really interesting staff who liked to attack anyone who transgressed "the unwritten law". What is "the unwritten law"? "Oh, we can't tell you that! If you were sensitive and fair minded, you would understand with out us having to tell you. You are just evil scum." I loved to spar with them! Most of the staff were cowed by them so I felt it necessary to push back to keep them from bullying those who would or could not defend themselves. In this regard they were as bad as the worst of those who they claimed to abhor. Mention a race, creed or colour and you are evil. Only those who have respect and empathy for others care at all about how others feel and only those people are interested and capable of making changes to their outlook so as to reflect their respect and empathy. It is simply a waste of effort to try to correct those who don't care. Eric, I agree with your point of view about those who are dependent, but often disrespectful, of those who are considered (by some) to be lower on the social scale. IMO the way you put across your point was a nice turn of phrase. At least I prefer to read your message in that way. I do have the advantage of recalling some of your previous messages so believe that I understand where you are coming from. What is served by assuming the worst about someone anyway? Isn't it better to assume that they are well meaning an to agree with their declaration of what is right and good? In order to understand other cultures, we must perceive how they differ from us and how they are the same. In this way we have some chance of beginning to be able to interact in positive ways. That said, we are not them, lack their experience, conditioning and so perspective so we will never really understand. The best that we can do is to try and to show good faith in doing so in the hope that they can meet us somewhere in the middle. On the other side of the coin, differences are GREAT!. We would likely have failed to prosper as a species if we were all the same. Most of the things I like about visiting other countries is how they differ. Why visit Italy if it is just like here? Give a "thumbs up" in some parts of the Middle East and you have just done the equivalent of the middle digit salute here. Tell some sweet elderly Auzzie ladies that you are "Rooting for Auzzie Two" as did a young lady student of mine and you may not understand why they look dismayed and leave you standing there. Don't bet on hide and go seek at night with the kids we used to live around in the South Pacific because they have an advantage over we how stand out in the dark. Also, don't keep checking their nose for signs of sun burn to see if yours might be getting burned if you are of Welsh ancestry as am I. Noticing differences is a necessary part of human interaction as is noticing of similarities. The perceived differences are seldom the basis of problems in my experience. It is the mis-read similarities which get us into do-do. Ron & Suzan Scollen (University of Alaska S.E.) wrote a wonderful paper contrasting Athabascan and English linguistic groups titled (or close to) "Narrative Literacy and Face In Inter-Ethnic Communications." If you haven't delved into this subject area and have the tiniest interest, it will knock your socks off. (Hoping I haven't offended those who don't own socks, are prevented by some physical, emotional, cultural, religious, spiritual, regulatory, medical, efficiency, or non-specified reason(s) from wearing or considering the wearing of socks. FWIW Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ron criswell]

Good read Norm. I've traveled around quite a bit both in the US and about 17 other countries. The thing I notice is people are pretty much the same as far as wants needs etc. Except for a few differences and it is those differences that seem to be where all the trouble is between people getting along. I have been around rich and poor people and different colors and religions. I think people are just too tribal and it really doesn't have that much to do with race. The whole war in the former Yugoslavia was really a tribal war they have been fighting for about 700 years. They are all pretty much the same people. The people in the Middle East are all pretty much the same people but are of different tribes and we see how well they all get along. Jes my opinion and you know I have one. Oh well, back to motorcycles, Criswell

On Sunday, April 10, 2005, at 10:02 AM, April Neave & Norm Keller wrote: > > The political correctness, racist, stupid/insensitive, intolerant, > misunderstanding and desire to beat up on others which surround so > many of these interactions makes it nearly impossible to say or do > anything without attracting the ire of someone these days. > > The problem with any of these things is that they are like fly paper > once someone objects. You simply cannot get unstuck! Anything you say > or do is not enough for some and seen as an attempt to justify by > others. > > I taught in a college where we had some really interesting staff who > liked to attack anyone who transgressed "the unwritten law". What is > "the unwritten law"? "Oh, we can't tell you that! If you were > sensitive and fair minded, you would understand with out us having to > tell you. You are just evil scum." I loved to spar with them! Most of > the staff were cowed by them so I felt it necessary to push back to > keep them from bullying those who would or could not defend > themselves. In this regard they were as bad as the worst of those who > they claimed to abhor. > > Mention a race, creed or colour and you are evil. Only those who have > respect and empathy for others care at all about how others feel and > only those people are interested and capable of making changes to > their outlook so as to reflect their respect and empathy. It is simply > a waste of effort to try to correct those who don't care. > > Eric, I agree with your point of view about those who are dependent, > but often disrespectful, of those who are considered (by some) to be > lower on the social scale. IMO the way you put across your point was a > nice turn of phrase. At least I prefer to read your message in that > way. I do have the advantage of recalling some of your previous > messages so believe that I understand where you are coming from. > > What is served by assuming the worst about someone anyway? Isn't it > better to assume that they are well meaning an to agree with their > declaration of what is right and good? > > In order to understand other cultures, we must perceive how they > differ from us and how they are the same. In this way we have some > chance of beginning to be able to interact in positive ways. That > said, we are not them, lack their experience, conditioning and so > perspective so we will never really understand. The best that we can > do is to try and to show good faith in doing so in the hope that they > can meet us somewhere in the middle. > > On the other side of the coin, differences are GREAT!. We would likely > have failed to prosper as a species if we were all the same. Most of > the things I like about visiting other countries is how they differ. > Why visit Italy if it is just like here? > > Give a "thumbs up" in some parts of the Middle East and you have just > done the equivalent of the middle digit salute here. Tell some sweet > elderly Auzzie ladies that you are "Rooting for Auzzie Two" as did a > young lady student of mine and you may not understand why they look > dismayed and leave you standing there. > > Don't bet on hide and go seek at night with the kids we used to live > around in the South Pacific because they have an advantage over we how > stand out in the dark. Also, don't keep checking their nose for signs > of sun burn to see if yours might be getting burned if you are of > Welsh ancestry as am I. > > Noticing differences is a necessary part of human interaction as is > noticing of similarities. The perceived differences are seldom the > basis of problems in my experience. It is the mis-read similarities > which get us into do-do. > > Ron & Suzan Scollen (University of Alaska S.E.) wrote a wonderful > paper contrasting Athabascan and English linguistic groups titled (or > close to) "Narrative Literacy and Face In Inter-Ethnic > Communications." If you haven't delved into this subject area and have > the tiniest interest, it will knock your socks off. (Hoping I haven't > offended those who don't own socks, are prevented by some physical, > emotional, cultural, religious, spiritual, regulatory, medical, > efficiency, or non-specified reason(s) from wearing or considering the > wearing of socks. > > FWIW > > Norm > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[Eric L. Green]

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Ron Criswell wrote:

> people. The people in the Middle East are all pretty much the same people but > are of different tribes and we see how well they all get along.

Not really even of different tribes. There is no genetic difference between a "Palestinian" and a "Jew" of Middle Eastern genetic origin (i.e., not an Ashkenazi Jew, who are of Eastern European genetic origin, decendents of Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century AD). In fact, most of the "Palestinians" are Jews who converted to Islam during the thousand years or so that first the Caliphs and then the Turks ruled Palestine (non-Muslims were taxed heavily in order to give them an incentive to convert to Islam, and most conquered peoples eventually did convert to Islam). So you have distant cousins trying their best to exterminate each other. It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic. -E

[googam]

Forget the paraffin thing for motorcycle chains! In the 1960s, British bike manuals recommended soaking chains in paraffin. Too many of us idiots took it seriously, with awful results. The reason: "Paraffin" is what the Brits call kerosene. They were suggesting that you soak your chains in kerosene to clean them. As they say, lost in translation... Lee Barnes __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail