oil filters-discussion board

[Don Van Dyke]

Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It should. One of several reasons that jumps to mind is that what motorcyclists and motorcycling needs more than anything is more motorcyclists. One of the surest ways to have more motorcyclists is to attract the other half of humanity, women, into this almost "exclusively" male dominated activity. Kathi points out one way that women are excluded, by the prejudice of some motorcycle salesMEN. Sales people should be ambassadors for motorcycling and behave in a way that attracts ALL people to motorcycling. In my opinion, most of those who post on this list serve do well, but we should keep in mind that we on this list also represent motorcycling every time we post. So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to motorcycling? Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while motorcycling has not? At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote:

>When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales guy a >bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get the >silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a response for >that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started addressing him >and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride >2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked my BF if >he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about that one >ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.

Don Van Dyke Sacramento, California Moto@... www.intellection.org

[Bogdan Swider]

> > Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It should.

I had a boss ( male ) who was proud of his thick grey hair. He bought a violet Cadillac because he believed that color went well with his coiffure. The salesman may have used that tactic on Kathi because it worked for him in the past. I liked her reaction; it gave her a good laugh. Beats throwing clich s around that may of my not apply. Bogdan

[CA Stu]

"I'm angry because you treated a woman like a woman!" I call BS. Seems like she took it in stride, so why should anyone else give a hoot? Also Don, sales is a game of numbers. The odds were 99.9% that she was just keeping her boyfriend comapny while he was shopping for a bike. If the salesman wasted his day trying to sell bikes to women, the odds are he'd get a fat lip from some jealous boyfriend and probably not sell any bikes. I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and appreciate women as "the fairer sex". A bit of wisdom from Mumford the Elder: "There are only two kinds of men that claim to understand women: Idiots and liars." As far as women in motorcycling, good for them. I sometimes need to borrow hair care products after a long day in a helmet. Thanks CA Stu A14 A13 -----Original Message----- Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It should. SNIP At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote:

>When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales

guy a

>bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get

the

>silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a

response for

>that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started

addressing him

>and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride >2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked my

BF if

>he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about

that one

>ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.

[Sandy]

Agreeing with Stu, she took it in stride. One thing to consider is that his behavior probably would have been the same if he'd been selling some other mainly male purchased object, such as tools. This guy was only trying to help, and assuming the type of help he should offer based on his experience. For the most part, women don't buy motorcycles anywhere near as much as men do. It is, however, pretty darned aggravating to have people assume stuff about you based on your sex, hair color, skin color, etc..... I was shopping for a new Chevy truck with my husband. While my husband had gone one way and I another, a salesman approached me and asked if he could help. I told him that I was looking for a 2500HD that didn't say DuraMax on the side. Granted, I could have said that in a much more intelligent fashion but I guess he assumed that because I was female that I wouldn't have the foggiest idea about those motor thingies. He said to me, "Well honey, that means diesel." Sigh.......... I bought a new Chevy 2500HD that day, just not from him. I seriously doubt that he ever knew why he lost a sale. If you want to attract women to motorcycling, start 'em young. Don't worry though, I see more women riding every day. Sandy / Texas

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "CA Stu" wrote: > > "I'm angry because you treated a woman like a woman!" > I call BS. > Seems like she took it in stride, so why should anyone else give a > hoot? > > Also Don, sales is a game of numbers. The odds were 99.9% that she > was just keeping her boyfriend comapny while he was shopping for a > bike. > If the salesman wasted his day trying to sell bikes to women, the > odds are he'd get a fat lip from some jealous boyfriend and probably > not sell any bikes. > > I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and > appreciate women as "the fairer sex". > > A bit of wisdom from Mumford the Elder: "There are only two kinds of > men that claim to understand women: Idiots and liars." > > > As far as women in motorcycling, good for them. > I sometimes need to borrow hair care products after a long day in a > helmet. > > Thanks > CA Stu A14 > A13 > > > -----Original Message----- > Dammit. Does this classic example of sexism anger anyone else? It > should. > > SNIP > > At 09:05 PM 1/12/2005 -0800, Kathi Clark wrote: > > >When we were looking at a bike shop at KTMs, I was asking a sales > guy a > >bunch of questions and sat on some bikes. He told me I should get > the > >silver KTM because it matched my jacket (I didn't even have a > response for > >that one). As soon as my boyfriend walked over, he started > addressing him > >and explained that we might actually want a smaller bike to ride > >2-up. Rather than punching the stupid sales guy, I sweetly asked my > BF if > >he was really intending to ride b*tch. We've been laughing about > that one > >ever since, although the poor sales guy never got it.

[Eric L. Green]

> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to > motorcycling?

By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them equal pay when they do so. Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States, rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn well wouldn't own a motorcycle.

> Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as > exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it > is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while > motorcycling has not?

Much of that equipment is rentable? -E

[Scott Critchfield]

Good point Eric... Scott -----Original Message----- From: Eric L. Green [mailto:ericnospam@...] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:55 PM To: Don Van Dyke Cc: Kathi Clark; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR, Women in Motorcycling

> So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to > motorcycling?

By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them equal pay when they do so. Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States, rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn well wouldn't own a motorcycle.

> Another passion of mine, whitewater kayaking and canoeing, was just as > exclusively male dominated when I took up the sport 25+ years ago. Now it > is more balanced. So why has that sport managed to attract women, while > motorcycling has not?

Much of that equipment is rentable? -E List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links

[Barnaby Robson]

You've obviously never met a Bull Dyke .. one of those fair ladies could rip your balls off and squish 'em in their hands quicker than you could say "make my dinner".

> I personally am thankful for the differences between the sexes, and > appreciate women as "the fairer sex". >

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2005-01-13 10:17:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, scott.critchfield@... writes:

> > By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them > equal pay when they do so. > > Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I didn't > own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of my > college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United States, > rather than something routinely used for daily transportation. Women on > average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women to own > motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores act > like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that I darn > well wouldn't own a motorcycle. > >

Like, in Kawasaki hiring Jessica Zelusky to race in the AMA Supersport class: http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=7033 ? Like one of my coworkers, Karen Stoffer, winning an NHRA National in the motorcycle pro-stock class and suddenly finding the sponsorship to compete the entire series? Following the recent surveys done by MCN on bike owners it has become obvious that women now make up a significant portion of the motorcycle marketplace, a trend I am thankful for. Take a look in any dirt bike apparel catalog and there is a decent choice of clothing and gear for the women to buy, such as anatomically correct chest protectors - Acerbis lead this trend being the first to make a chest protector with room on top where women need it. More and more women are discovering that motorcycles aren't just for the boys. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don Van Dyke]

Well, that is true, the price of entry in cheaper, and there is some availability of rental, although not as much as with skiing. You can get a top of the line whitewater kayak for around $1,000, and the rest of your gear (paddle, lifejacket, etc.) for under $500. A top of the line light-weight laminate sea kayak costs around $3,000. Way back when kayaking was exclusively a male dominated activity and women where just beginning to get involved, some men seemed to resent women taking up "their" sport, although I am sure they would have denied it if you asked them. I wonder if there is some of that in motorcycling. At 09:55 PM 1/13/2005 -0800, Eric L. Green wrote:

>By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying them >equal pay when they do so. > > >So why has that sport managed to attract women, while > > motorcycling has not? > >Much of that equipment is rentable? > >-E

Don Van Dyke Sacramento, California Moto@... www.intellection.org

[Arden Kysely]

I don't buy the money argument. There are plenty of women out there who are 'horse poor' from pursuing an expensive activity (imagine if you had to feed and board your KLR whether you rode it or not), but they do it because they love it. I think one thing that keeps women out of motorcycling is men and their 'manly' attitudes--salesmen who ignore women, riders who consider motorcycling a men-only activity (a way to get away from the wife instead of spend time with her), and those who think that the 'fairer sex' belong home with the kids while Dad does the macho thing on his two-wheeler. I think there's a lot of non-overt discouragement going on that no one will cop to because they like the do their thing with the boys. My wife knows that riding is fun and I've tried to get her to learn to ride, but she has plenty of other things she does and she's not interested. A friend of mine's wife loves to putt around on her XR100, so they do some fireroads together. Back to the money thing--I work with a woman who makes more than I do and recently bought a motorcycle. Did she do it because she could suddenly afford a bike? Hardly. She did it because she saw that motorcycling is fun, and because her husband encouraged her to learn to ride by herself so they could take rides together. I'd like to see more women on motorcycles. That would mean fewer cars on the road that are trying to kill me. For another take on women in motorcycling, check out the Feb issue of Dual-Sport News. Flame on!! __Arden --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> > So much for not repelling women...now how do we attract women to > > motorcycling? > > By encouraging them to enter high-paying professions, and paying

them

> equal pay when they do so. > > Look: the reason women don't own motorcycles is the same reason I

didn't

> own a motorcycle for over 10 years after I sold mine at the end of

my

> college years -- $$$. A motorcycle is a luxury item in the United

States,

> rather than something routinely used for daily transportation.

Women on

> average earn 3/4ths of what men earn. Thus you'd expect fewer women

to own

> motorcycles, regardless of what ignorant jerks in motorcycle stores

act

> like. If I was making 3/4ths of what I currently make, I know that

I darn

> well wouldn't own a motorcycle. > -E