helmet cam riding home from work video.....

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2004-05-18 12:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Glenn@... writes:

> > Dell is one of them. They employ hundreds of people over in INDIA to > handle tech support because it's cheaper than paying Americans. They > don't handle specific questions very well at all (they stick to the > manual) and you may have trouble understanding what the hell they are > saying. Several analists were saying it is good for business because > of increased profit margins, but when your customers are pulling > their hair out on the other end of the phone I don't consider that > good for business. > > "Dude, I'm NOT getting a Dell". > >

Dude, you are way behind the times. It was a couple of months ago that Dell close down the India Tech Center because of too many customer complaints. Also, for the last year statistics have shown several other companies that pulled out of outsourcing to India because in the long run it just doesn't work. I work for GE and in the IT groups were are cutting back between 10-20% on outsourcing - we are bringing jobs back because we discovered too much loss of intellectual property in the minds of the people who's jobs were outsourced. Also GE brought its support center back from India to Canada because for tech support the India Data Center just can't be made to work. And in the last month or so there have been several stories about high tech firms in India out sourcing jobs back to the US of A. This is a very complex topic that really defies the simplistic, jingoistic sound bites being tossed out by politicians. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Eric L. Green]

On Tue, 18 May 2004, Russell Scott wrote:

> A friend of mine, who is also an excellent Java programmer, recently started > his own company, and is developing a very innovative software program. He > designed it, but didn't want to write it. He found a couple of guys in > Belarus (Russia), who are excellent programmers, and work their tails off, > for $15.00 an hour. There production and skill is better than 90% of the

Belarus is not Russia. It is a rather shabby Soviet "republic" run by a corrupt old Commie party boss by the name of Lukashenko (NOT a nice man), but the real power running Belarus is the Mafiya (somewhat akin to our Mafia, but MUCH more vile). Your friend better watch himself, his product may end up being sold by someone else for big bucks, and it is absolutely impossible to enforce any U.S. judgements in Belarus, they completely and utterly ignore any U.S. court orders. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bo.html That aside, I did not make more than $15/hour as a programmer until I'd been in the profession for three years, and no, that was not in 1925, that was in 1995. There's plenty of folks here in the United States who are willing to work for cheap in order to get into the field or in order to live close to their family and friends far from the big tech centers on the coasts. The only problem is that you'll have to go to Kansas City or Memphis or Shreveport to hire them, and too many American companies would rather support Indians than Americans. If I'd stayed in Shreveport, I'd still be making less than $20 per hour. Of course, when a 1600 square foot three bedroom house sells for $80K (yes, I could buy said house for $80K in Shreveport), a $40K salary goes a long way... but funny, I can't get anybody to pay me $35K-40K/year to do anything interesting in software in Shreveport, they all want to outsource to India or Russia instead. I would have stayed in Shreveport if your friend had offered me $15/hour to do Java programming in Shreveport. Your friend didn't ask. Of course, money isn't the real reason for outsourcing. The real reason is control -- using the power of Big Government to keep the workers on the farm team, far away from the big city and its high wages, and without worry about benefits or such, and without worry about working conditions causing lawsuits (the countries we outsource to tend to be so corrupt that the workers can't put together enough bribe money to outweigh what we bribe the government officials with to keep their eyes and ears closed). Outsourcing to China is going to be the next big thing, because this gives the ultimate control -- as a semi-Communist dictatorship, the Chinese people are basically slaves. The big picture for outsourcing is that it is mostly just a new slave racket where the Fortune 500 massahs can crack the whip on their new foreign chattel in their overseas plantations. Talking about how Americans aren't "competitive" when what they're being expected to compete with are slaves is ridiculous. I will pit my skills and knowledge against anyone, anywhere -- but how the bleep do I compete with a slave?! [Note: This is NOT the rantings of someone who is an unemployed loser -- I am quite employed, and making quite a bit more than $15/hour -- this is more the voice of someone who's watching the re-invention of the Southern slave plantation, with new American massahs and new slaves on overseas plantation, and who is sickened by the sight.] -E

[westnash1]

Yee Haw a real southerner!!! I say to the originator of this post once again that if your friend wants to pay $15 an hour he can get people working on the side here in the USA to do it in a heartbeat,,,,As is said if he goes overseas many problems will occur,,,,theft of his idea...promises never kept,,,links with the russian mafia and his bank account,,,,as an individual he is not large enough to go overseas really and it will be an expensve lesson as well as one anti american.....I actually bet he could get a klr owner to do the project...now howa about that j --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> On Tue, 18 May 2004, Russell Scott wrote: > > A friend of mine, who is also an excellent Java programmer,

recently started

> > his own company, and is developing a very innovative software

program. He

> > designed it, but didn't want to write it. He found a couple of

guys in

> > Belarus (Russia), who are excellent programmers, and work their

tails off,

> > for $15.00 an hour. There production and skill is better than

90% of the

> > Belarus is not Russia. It is a rather shabby Soviet "republic" run

by a

> corrupt old Commie party boss by the name of Lukashenko (NOT a nice

man),

> but the real power running Belarus is the Mafiya (somewhat akin to

our

> Mafia, but MUCH more vile). Your friend better watch himself, his

product

> may end up being sold by someone else for big bucks, and it is

absolutely

> impossible to enforce any U.S. judgements in Belarus, they

completely and

> utterly ignore any U.S. court orders. > > http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bo.html > > That aside, I did not make more than $15/hour as a programmer until

I'd

> been in the profession for three years, and no, that was not in

1925, that

> was in 1995. There's plenty of folks here in the United States who

are

> willing to work for cheap in order to get into the field or in

order to

> live close to their family and friends far from the big tech

centers on

> the coasts. The only problem is that you'll have to go to Kansas

City or

> Memphis or Shreveport to hire them, and too many American companies

would

> rather support Indians than Americans. If I'd stayed in Shreveport, > I'd still be making less than $20 per hour. Of course, when a 1600

square

> foot three bedroom house sells for $80K (yes, I could buy said

house for

> $80K in Shreveport), a $40K salary goes a long way... but funny, I

can't

> get anybody to pay me $35K-40K/year to do anything interesting in

software

> in Shreveport, they all want to outsource to India or Russia

instead. I

> would have stayed in Shreveport if your friend had offered me

$15/hour to

> do Java programming in Shreveport. Your friend didn't ask. > > Of course, money isn't the real reason for outsourcing. The real

reason is

> control -- using the power of Big Government to keep the workers on

the

> farm team, far away from the big city and its high wages, and

without

> worry about benefits or such, and without worry about working

conditions

> causing lawsuits (the countries we outsource to tend to be so

corrupt that

> the workers can't put together enough bribe money to outweigh what

we

> bribe the government officials with to keep their eyes and ears

closed).

> Outsourcing to China is going to be the next big thing, because

this gives

> the ultimate control -- as a semi-Communist dictatorship, the

Chinese

> people are basically slaves. The big picture for outsourcing is

that it is

> mostly just a new slave racket where the Fortune 500 massahs can

crack the

> whip on their new foreign chattel in their overseas plantations.

Talking

> about how Americans aren't "competitive" when what they're being

expected

> to compete with are slaves is ridiculous. I will pit my skills and > knowledge against anyone, anywhere -- but how the bleep do I

compete with

> a slave?! > > [Note: This is NOT the rantings of someone who is an unemployed

loser -- I

> am quite employed, and making quite a bit more than $15/hour --

this is

> more the voice of someone who's watching the re-invention of the

Southern

> slave plantation, with new American massahs and new slaves on

overseas

> plantation, and who is sickened by the sight.] > > -E

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote:

> This is a very complex topic that really defies the simplistic, jingoistic > sound bites being tossed out by politicians. >

Good point. And a topic that defies conventional political pigeonholing, because we haven't faced anything quite like it. In a way, though, it is already old news, and will probably fade from the headlines before I begin to understand it. The yurmoil around outsourcing is emblematic of a whole array of dislocations that are occurring and will occur as third-world economies try to grow. They will all pale in comparison to the increasing competition for increasingly limited resources as a billion Chinese start to consume like us.

[Lujo Bauer]

> course, with all the socialistic brain washing in public schools, and the > left wing media, of course outsourcing looks bad.

Do people dislike outsourcing because of socialistic brainwashing? I spent a buncha years getting (presumably socialistically) brainwashed in socialist public schools, and I still have no problem with outsourcing if that's what market forces cause to happen. -Lujo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[monahanwb]

and the

> left wing media, of course

oh come on the media is about totally corporate owned and operated.

[Eric L. Green]

On Wed, 19 May 2004, Lujo Bauer wrote:

> Do people dislike outsourcing because of socialistic brainwashing? I > spent a buncha years getting (presumably socialistically) brainwashed in > socialist public schools, and I still have no problem with outsourcing > if that's what market forces cause to happen.

And I bet you have no problem with slavery if that's what market forces cause to happen. And look, we shouldn't outlaw snuff flicks, if that's what market forces cause to happen. And look, that whole murder for hire stuff? Why are we outlawing hit men, I mean, it's just market forces in action, filling a need, right? In 1776, these words were written by a bunch of socialist commies: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to ^^ secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just powers from the consent of the governed, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Markets do not care about human rights. Markets do not care about life or liberty. Markets are a means to an end -- the end being a better life for the people of a country -- they are not an end in and of themselves. Current approaches to outsourcing leave the peoples of foreign countries enslaved to corrupt governments that are propped up by foreign investment, corrupt governments that care nothing about market forces, and often such outsourcing is simply a way to commit murder without being punished for it (Bhopal, anybody?). I know of a semiconductor company that opened up in China not because it's cheaper labor-wise (they have to bribe too many government officials for that), but because the Chinese allow them just dump chemicals on the ground and poison the groundwater used by hundreds of thousands of Chinese, amongst whom thousands will die in the future from chemically-induced cancers. In short, pure market forces literally lead to murder -- the murder of thousands. It is the job of government, not of markets, to secure the rights of the people, of which the right to life is the least of those rights. At least, that's what that raving commie Thomas Jefferson wrote. But what the hey, he was just a product of socialistic brainwashing (I mean, the very NOTION that we have certain God-given rights that are unalienable, i.e., that cannot be taken away on the whim of government or market forces!), so obviously he isn't worth listening to. -E

[Russell Scott]

And that's the problem, too much government regulation, taxes, and subsides. That's what leads businesses to look for ways to save money, and to look outside this country for solutions. America needs a spiritual rebirth, because right now its on its Roman Empire death bed. From Hitler's vision for a Thousand Year Reich and Lenin's promise to use the dictatorship of the proletariat to build a workers' paradise, to abortion depicted as a 'women's health issue' and homosexual behavior justified as an 'alternative lifestyle,' evil always comes to humanity disguised as good. The results are just as invariably consistent -- destruction, suffering and death. Beware the Serpent's promises." --Dr. Earl H. Tilford "Nothing is more certain than that a general profligacy and corruption of manners make a people ripe for destruction. A good form of government may hold the rotten materials together for some time, but beyond a certain pitch, even the best constitution will be ineffectual, and slavery must ensue." --John Witherspoon "And having looked to the government for bread, on the very first scarcity they will turn and bite the hand that fed them." --Edmund Burke "The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life." --Theodore Roosevelt "I love a dog, he does nothing for political reasons." --Will Rogers "Above all, I know there is a Supreme Being who rules the affairs of men and whose goodness and mercy have always followed the American people, and I know He will not turn from us now if we humbly and reverently seek His powerful aid." --Grover Cleveland "A churchless community, a community where men have abandoned and scoffed at or ignored their religious needs, is a community on the rapid down grade." --Theodore Roosevelt "The higher state to which [America] seeks the allegiance of all mankind is not of human, but of divine origin. She cherishes no purpose save to merit the favor of Almighty God." --Calvin Coolidge "Without God there could be no American form of government nor an American way of life. Recognition of the Supreme Being is the... most basic expression of Americanism." --Dwight D. Eisenhower R -----Original Message----- From: Eric L. Green [mailto:ericnospam@...] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:36 PM To: Lujo Bauer Cc: Russell Scott; KListeRs Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: NKLR - Job outsourcing

On Wed, 19 May 2004, Lujo Bauer wrote: > Do people dislike outsourcing because of socialistic brainwashing? I > spent a buncha years getting (presumably socialistically) brainwashed in > socialist public schools, and I still have no problem with outsourcing > if that's what market forces cause to happen. And I bet you have no problem with slavery if that's what market forces cause to happen. And look, we shouldn't outlaw snuff flicks, if that's what market forces cause to happen. And look, that whole murder for hire stuff? Why are we outlawing hit men, I mean, it's just market forces in action, filling a need, right? In 1776, these words were written by a bunch of socialist commies: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to ^^ secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just powers from the consent of the governed, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Markets do not care about human rights. Markets do not care about life or liberty. Markets are a means to an end -- the end being a better life for the people of a country -- they are not an end in and of themselves. Current approaches to outsourcing leave the peoples of foreign countries enslaved to corrupt governments that are propped up by foreign investment, corrupt governments that care nothing about market forces, and often such outsourcing is simply a way to commit murder without being punished for it (Bhopal, anybody?). I know of a semiconductor company that opened up in China not because it's cheaper labor-wise (they have to bribe too many government officials for that), but because the Chinese allow them just dump chemicals on the ground and poison the groundwater used by hundreds of thousands of Chinese, amongst whom thousands will die in the future from chemically-induced cancers. In short, pure market forces literally lead to murder -- the murder of thousands. It is the job of government, not of markets, to secure the rights of the people, of which the right to life is the least of those rights. At least, that's what that raving commie Thomas Jefferson wrote. But what the hey, he was just a product of socialistic brainwashing (I mean, the very NOTION that we have certain God-given rights that are unalienable, i.e., that cannot be taken away on the whim of government or market forces!), so obviously he isn't worth listening to. -E

[aboyandhisdawg]

that's illegal? oh, crud! i wasn't there, didn't do it and y'all cant prove a damn thing! NAME WITHHELD --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> ... And look, that whole murder for hire > stuff? Why are we outlawing hit men, I mean, it's just market forces in > action, filling a need, right?

[Paul Dent]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:

> Your missing something.

It's "you're".

> with all the socialistic brain washing in public schools, and the > left wing media, of course outsourcing looks bad.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-liberalmedia.htm