nklr standard sportbikes

[RM]

Is there any future for the machinist trade? I just found out that I might qualify for state-subsidized machinist training. Never been thrilled about the trade but it could be interesting if only I knew more about it. The IT job market doesn't seem to be recovering like the rest of the labor market so it might be time to bail out (for now). Is there any kind of real demand for machinists (excluding the ones making doohickeys)? RM PS. If I enroll, I promise to make nothing but KLR parts during my lab time.

[monahanwb]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote:

> > Is there any future for the machinist trade?

Dunno about the labor aspect, but what a skill to have if you are into restoring, customizing, or altering motorcycles. How does the State subsidize the training?

[RM]

On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, monahanwb wrote:

>>Is there any future for the machinist trade? > >Dunno about the labor aspect, but what a skill to have if you are >into restoring, customizing, or altering motorcycles. > >How does the State subsidize the training?

California Employment Training Panel. It's a program for those on unemployment to re-train for a new career. I don't know how not-in-demand they consider my current profession to be, so I may not qualify. The determination seems to be somewhat subjective. I HATE HATE HATE the midwest but I'd still be at my cushy $60k/yr job with free soft drinks if I'd stayed back there. They never did eliminate my position (even though they ran most everyone else off). Then again, I'd rather live in a cardboard box in SoCal than a high-rise apartment in Arlington Heights. 10F sucks. So do summer heat waves and flat boring farmland.

[RM]

On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Jake Jakeman wrote:

>...I'd tell you......but then I'd have to kill you.

I'm hoping they'll teach me the secret machinist handshake. First rule about Machinist Club: Do Not Talk about Machinist Club!

[Monty]

Just remember fellow KLRers Machinists don t get old, they just run out of tolerance!! --- RM wrote:

> > On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Jake Jakeman wrote: > > >...I'd tell you......but then I'd have to kill you. > > I'm hoping they'll teach me the secret machinist > handshake. > > First rule about Machinist Club: Do Not Talk about > Machinist Club! > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at >

http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/cgi/lwgate.cgi/KLR650/archives/

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[davidlwilhite]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote:

> > Is there any future for the machinist trade?

I have noticed that the technical trades in general have very little respect. At least within production or manufacturing types of facilities. Many people still think that it is a dirty nasty job, but I don't suppose they've seen the shops with all the CNC and EDM type of equipment. Even Jay Leno authored an article in Popular Science (I think) a few years ago talking about the importance of the machinist trade and how there are not enough people in it. He gave an example of how hard it was to find a machinist that could make some new gears for one of his antique cars. He ended up finding some guy in Mexico or South America. It was something that could not be made on a CNC machine and had to be done on a regular mill. He even spoke about how America was losing out in the long run by not having machinists and not emphasizing the need for trades people within High Schools and such. A college education is normally a good thing, but if we don't have machinists, who will build our machines that make the products that we use everyday. Take a look at all the machines you have around you, and see how many you can find that are made in USA. I don't even think Bridgeport mills are really made in USA anymore. The same could be said for many of the trades. How many of you get pissed off when you take your bike (or car more likely) in to a mechanic for some sort of problem and they can't troubleshoot it properly. Often you have to take it back a few times while they play hit-and-miss replacing this-and-that. There will always be a need for machinists. No matter how sophisticated we get with computers and such, there still has to be someone to study a design, read the blueprints and fabricate components for any new piece of machinery. Someone still has to be able to make the CNC or the EDM machine to begin with. Pay does vary widely. Where I live (south of Atlanta, GA), where machinists make anywhere from $12.00 to $28.00+ per hour, but get 1.5X when working overtime. This may not seem like much, but there was a time when I was supervising a shop and half the people working for me were making more money than I was. Even though I was their boss and had an Engineering degree. The reason was that I was salary and they were hourly. It doesn't take much OT to make up the difference. Especially if the salaried person is working more than 40 hours per week, but doesn't get paid anything extra for it. How many salaried people do you know that only work 40 hours per week. If a machinist is getting paid $18.00 per hour and works an average of 45 hours per week, he'll make about $45,000 per year. If he averages 48 hours per week, he'll make about $49,000. Plus, they normally just work 8 hours per day like 07:00 - 15:00, whereas the salaried person has to work at least 07:00 - 16:00 because they have to take an hour for lunch. Sorry it's so long, and I could go on and on, but if I had been aware of the machinist trade, I would have gone into some form of the trade instead of getting an Engineering degree. There is just something about designing a part on CAD, getting a chunk of material, setting it up on a mill (or lathe, or surface grinder, etc.) and creating a nifty little doo-dad out of it. It seems that Engineers are a dime a dozen and a true good machinist is hard to find.

[Steven van Twuyver]

Mostly anything requiring machining in the consumer good arenas except cars is done in Taiwan or China. The reason Mr. Leno can't get a part made in the USA is because most machininst want to eat after they have done some machining. Most machines are engineered with a disposable lifespan so fabrication and repair machinist are becomming as rare as plasterers and chimney sweeps. -svt-

>but if we don't have machinists, who will build our machines >that make the

products that we use everyday. Take a look at >all the machines you have around you, and see how many >you can find that are made in USA. I don't even think >Bridgeport mills are really made in USA anymore.

[kcuf_oohay_666]

There is a need for GOOD machinists but not for bad ones. It's like anyother trade. I'm a machinist but I'm bored. It's not fun anymore. the places I've worked don't want to progress.

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote: > > Is there any future for the machinist trade? > > I just found out that I might qualify for state-subsidized machinist > training. Never been thrilled about the trade but it could be interesting > if only I knew more about it. The IT job market doesn't seem to be > recovering like the rest of the labor market so it might be time to bail > out (for now). > > Is there any kind of real demand for machinists (excluding the ones making > doohickeys)? > > RM > > PS. If I enroll, I promise to make nothing but KLR parts during my lab > time.

[swede1037]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "davidlwilhite" wrote:

> I have noticed that the technical trades in general have very

little

> respect. At least within production or manufacturing types of > facilities. Many people still think that it is a dirty nasty job, > but I don't suppose they've seen the shops with all the CNC and

EDM

> type of equipment.

I worked as a CNC machinist in a job shop/prototype/production facility. It was dirty, though not nasty, because we didn't have the time to clean things and make them purdy. We were too busy making parts to worry about the niceities. Big corporations will hire machine janitors - I've seen it - that's their job and that's all they do. As for us, we had to repair, maintain, program, alterprogram, load, and time keep the machines. Then keep track of inventory, time when and what needed to be run with the pattern torch operators. We had to be able to repair our own, because of the nearest dealer being in Denver (250 miles away) and having to set an appointment for them to fix it.

> Even Jay Leno authored an article in Popular Science (I think) a

few

> years ago talking about the importance of the machinist trade and

how

> there are not enough people in it. He gave an example of how hard

it

> was to find a machinist that could make some new gears for one of

his

> antique cars. He ended up finding some guy in Mexico or South > America. It was something that could not be made on a CNC machine > and had to be done on a regular mill.

I find it VERY hard to believe that he couldn't find anyone here that COULD make it, much less on CNC. Chances are they either wouldn't make it or he was unwilling to pay what they wanted to prototype and make just the one piece. Another thing, I ran a machine that was used primarily used as a lathe that had milling capabilities. It was still limited as to what it could do, but you could transfer to another machine and do the finish up work.

> There will always be a need for machinists. No matter how > sophisticated we get with computers and such, there still has to

be

> someone to study a design, read the blueprints and fabricate > components for any new piece of machinery. Someone still has to

be

> able to make the CNC or the EDM machine to begin with.

I totally agree.

> Sorry it's so long, and I could go on and on, but if I had been

aware

> of the machinist trade, I would have gone into some form of the

trade

> instead of getting an Engineering degree. There is just something > about designing a part on CAD, getting a chunk of material,

setting

> it up on a mill (or lathe, or surface grinder, etc.) and creating

a

> nifty little doo-dad out of it.

You don't even need to CAD it, I've made lots of parts on CNC and manual machines from chicken scratch on scrap paper or napkins. It's all in how the designer relates to the creator. Made all kinds of doo-dads and did a lot of "government work", because the shop was small enough that I could do my own work when the shift was over.

> It seems that Engineers are a dime a dozen and a true good

machinist

> is hard to find.

I can agree with that too. The sad thing is, a handfull of engineers working for a company we supplied for, had a tendency to change prints for their parts because "so and so" designed it, so they just HAD to change it. Made for a lot of grief on our part. We even produced our own products for sale, not an engineer one in the place, and it was a mighty fine product, if I do say so myself. Needless to say, it was partly the engineers, partly the management that made me decide to leave that work. Swede

[swede1037]

Don't rest on your IT experience to think you'll slide into the CNC world. Computer skills are helpful, but can get in the way. I've seen someone with no experience with computers excel on CNC and ones with computer experience not be able to understand the programming. More handy is geometry, trigonometry, and an ability to visualize the finished product and how to get the stock to that point. I'll tell you now, that most "production machinists" that work for big corporations do no more than "put the part in and push the green button". Ran into more than one of them in my time. Looking forward to being a CNC instructor in my current profession in the near future. Swede

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., RM wrote: > > Is there any future for the machinist trade? > > I just found out that I might qualify for state-subsidized machinist > training. Never been thrilled about the trade but it could be interesting > if only I knew more about it. The IT job market doesn't seem to be > recovering like the rest of the labor market so it might be time to bail > out (for now). > > Is there any kind of real demand for machinists (excluding the ones making > doohickeys)? > > RM > > PS. If I enroll, I promise to make nothing but KLR parts during my lab > time.