Re: crankshaft rear seals

[Viv James TraX Interconnect (Pty.) Ltd]

Hello Harry,

I've been folowing this thread with interest. Here is my story:-
Last May, I stripped my "black car" engine and installed the Moss
rear seal kit. It worked fine for about 1000 miles then the drips
reappeared. Now it is worse than with the original thrower. I can't
remember what colour the Moss seal was but it certainly looks as
though my problem is a worn out seal. If it was a positioning
problem, it would have leaked from square one. Now, having read
all the expert texts, I wonder if a Viton seal is not the answer.
Can you or anyone else tell me the part number, size and how to
make sure it is the right material etc so that I can do some
shopping before stripping the engine again. Needless to say.the
good news is that I don't have a rust problem aft of the engine!!

I have just assembed the engine of my "cream car" and with due
thanks to whoever, I did the Chevy conversion as per the web site.
This was easy because I did it while rebuilding the engine from the
bottom up so I could "line bore" the seal retainer. This should be on
the road later this year so I'm holding thumbs.

Rgds

Viv James

[Andy Bradley]

Anyone is welcome to go down to their local bearing and seal store and pour through the seal catalogs. Every one of
them has a specification section that lays out the environments that each seal will survive in. For use in engine oil
at engine temperature and with the diameter of the crank flange and the required shaft (engine) speed, a neoprene seal
will not live. A viton seal will only barely survive at low speeds. Extended highway use at speed will cook a viton
seal as well. It just takes longer. I got about 600 miles down the freeway before mine toasted.

C'mon guys! The Moss gizmo looks like an elegant solution, but it doesn't work. I personally of several shops who have
installed them in customers' cars, at their request. A living installation is the exception, rather than the rule. I
have even got Moss engineering to admit that they don't work as expected. (No names, here). Moss has a real problem on
their hands, since the same kit is availble for big Healeys. Same problems.

So give the poor thing a rest. If you have one installed and it is working for you, great. Don't touch it. But the
rest of us will have to go elsewhere.

If someone can come up with something better than my GM seal conversion, swell. I am not married to it or anything.
But it is the best thing going so far. It is cheaper than the Moss kit, since most cranks require machining anyway, or
at least the use of a speedi-sleeve at $45 a pop. And it works. It is a permanent fix. Parts are readlily available.
The seal costs about $11, compared to the large one at about $40+. Once the work is done, it is one less step in the
rebuilding of an engine. Put seal halves in and assemble bottom end. No futzing around the crank while the engine
teeters on the bench or hangs from a sling.

The Moss kit was a great idea, and it looked like the solution. We gave it a try and it just didn't pan out. Heck, I
bought one and went through three seals before giving up. But I did give up and went back to my original design. And
it works fine.

So lets give the old horse a mercy shot and get on with it.

Oh. And to the engineering types out there. Don't give up on a search for something better than the GM conversion. I
never said it was God's perfection. It is just the best so far.

--
Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

[Viv James TraX Interconnect (Pty.) Ltd]

Date sent: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:25:37 -0700
From: Andy Bradley
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] crankshaft rear seals
To: sales@trax.co.za
Send reply to: abradley@cnw.com
Organization: Bradley Engineering

Andy,

I agree with all you say and most of my miles are done on country
events at 55 to 60 mph, ie hasta la vista baby for Mr Moss's
creation. This is why I have gone you way for my current
restoration. However, the black car is all together and in regular
use so, like Gene, I want to fix it with the minimum trouble,
preferably by just pulling the flywheel and replacing the seal.

What you are saying is that no seal exists that can withstand the
friction temperatures generated by the large diameter and therefore
fast moving circumpherence of the flywheel boss. Probably there is
not enough oil in the vicinity at those rpms either. My one has
settled in to a steady rate of leak and I guess that it has just worn
enough to reduce the friction and therefore reduce the temperature.

What you are also saying is that if I just tootle along in town, the Viton
one will probably hold out. Little chance of this.

The best interim solution will probably be to replace the original
stuff for now.

Any other ideas?

Viv

[Harry Pyle]

Viv,

It sounds like you have a 'black' neoprene/nitrile seal in your kit...these
will just not last..as you have experienced. The rest of the Moss kit I
believe is very well done. Suggest you remove the old 'black' seal and
replace it with equivalent red or brown viton one. I cant help you with a
part nr because it is a different size to the original Bob Schapel ones.

Good luck...As an after thought..a phone call to Moss and I would be
surprised if they dont carry the replacement seals in viton (the correct
material)... better still..lets ask Skip Kelsey to contact you..he will read
this note from the list...Over to you Skip.

Regards Harry.

----- Original Message -----
From: Viv James TraX Interconnect (Pty.) Ltd
To:
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: crankshaft rear seals


> Hello Harry,
>
> I've been folowing this thread with interest. Here is my story:-
> Last May, I stripped my "black car" engine and installed the Moss
> rear seal kit. It worked fine for about 1000 miles then the drips
> reappeared. Now it is worse than with the original thrower. I can't
> remember what colour the Moss seal was but it certainly looks as
> though my problem is a worn out seal. If it was a positioning
> problem, it would have leaked from square one. Now, having read
> all the expert texts, I wonder if a Viton seal is not the answer.
> Can you or anyone else tell me the part number, size and how to
> make sure it is the right material etc so that I can do some
> shopping before stripping the engine again. Needless to say.the
> good news is that I don't have a rust problem aft of the engine!!
>
> I have just assembed the engine of my "cream car" and with due
> thanks to whoever, I did the Chevy conversion as per the web site.
> This was easy because I did it while rebuilding the engine from the
> bottom up so I could "line bore" the seal retainer. This should be on
> the road later this year so I'm holding thumbs.
>
> Rgds
>
> Viv James