Re: Badges

[neil and barbara bradley]

Add me to the list. I love badges!

Neil "Boomer" Bradley
TC0529

[Ulf Lindquist]

I ll go for a badge as well!

Ulf Lindquist

[Austin R. Baer]

Just returned from a week-long trip to find some really gratifying messages from so many of you. Thank you all very much for your comments... they are most gratefully received, particularly because I am very mindful of the many special interests and talents of this group. A number of you are designers, artists and engineers yourselves, so I am all the more appreciative of your comments. A couple of notes... As some of you have asked, the design will undergo a little more "tweaking" after I've heard back from the supplier with some last minute questions. For example, the colors are not yet "spec'ed". As Jim Shade observed, the brown needs to be darker. Also, the gray (which represents the nickel-plated color "barriers") needs to be corrected for line width, especially in the octagon background; the light tan needs to be carefully selected because it has to be a compromise for the flesh tone of the face (only a total of five colors are allowed). The red car will be a little on the warmer side than factory so that it "pops out" better. And I felt that an old (but hip) guy shown in driving mode represents the age and "drive-it-till-it-smokes" attitudes of many of the list members. But the center chrome of the grille cowl needs to be thinner, and the area around the hole for the crank needs reshaping. Other similar stuff probably won't be noticed, but there are a few other things that are "caricatured" because of the small size (oversize hinges, hubs, etc.) that I did on purpose to get the "feel" rather than photographic accuracy in view of the limitations of size and badge-making process. However, if there is some glaring error, please let me know (Viv, I think the horn's on the correct side!) and I'll try to accommodate. If anyone wants to have a JPEG image with the car colors left out for you to fill in you own car, grille, tonneau, hair color, etc., with Adobe Photoshop or any other fill-in paint software, let me know, and I'll send along a low, medium or high-res file for you to play with after the tweaking is done. Later, as I've said before, I'm going to try to have acetate 8-1/2 x 11's available, printed with just the nickel barriers printed in silver, so that you can either back them up with ink-jet paper images from your own printers, or I can try to supply them to you somehow. Bill Harkins asked about a copyright; I think the "list" should apply for it. Certainly, I have no more proprietary interest than any of you... perhaps an attorney in the group can do that for us; the cost is minimal. I believe a simple "C-in-circle" emblem added to the image on our website will help. Bill's got some great ideas for lapel pins, T-shirts, etc. I want the first beer mug. Thank you for your patience! Austin

[Jbtc48@aol.com]

Austin;
It sounds that you are near the end......
I assume that we will paint our own car colors if we want different colors.
We should have a copyright!!!!!!!
Thanks for a job well done.
Joe Bernert

[Gene Gillam]

Austin, I, for one, am absolutely ecstatic with the design you've created - you've captured the essence of the car and the way I imagine it looks as I drive it...isn't it nice when you can kid yourself and then find substantiation? When you do manage to get a JPEG image ready I'd love to have one to play with - add me to what I must imagine is a very large and growing list by now. Thanks again for your creation, Gene Gillam Saucier, MS 49 TC 7872

[Jbtc48@aol.com]

Austin, if you need help with the copyright let me know. We do it for a
number of our products.
Joe B

[Jbtc48@aol.com]

Austin;
I spoke with our law firm this AM.
We can register the design of the badge in colors or single color, as long as
the design retains its integrity.
Registrarion can be in an individuals, partners, or corporate name.
Since we are not a corporation or a partnership it appears that an
individual,such as yourself can register the design.
In the US the cost of incorporation runs about $200. Officers have to be
nominated elected, and records have to be kept.
It appears that the easiest way to deal with this problem is to have you, as
an individual register the design and grant the right, at your discression,to
any individual who wants to reproduce the design.
I am not sure of the cost to register but I don't believe it is expensive.
As a personal suggestion, I believe it is best for you to register the design
and grant the right to others to use it, at your discression.
The cost of registration can be incorporated into the total cost of the
badges sold. It should only add a dollor or two to the cost of each badge.
Our law firm will call back this PM if they find that there is any unforseen
glitch in this approach. They may be able to refer you to a law firm in your
area that does trademarks.
Regards,
Joe B

[Mark Jablonski]

Guys

I think we are confusing a couple of things here. There's trade mark
registration on the one hand and copyright on the other.

Copyright comes into being as soon as a work has been created and has
a physical form. In this case, Austin, you as the creator, own
copyright. In most countries copyright does not require registration
but I understand that in the US you may be able to do so but also
that this is optional. I don't think registration is required in
order to make out a case of copyright infringement (you may like to
check this with a US copyright lawyer). Copyright gives the owner
the sole right of reproducing the work.

Trade marks are used to signify the source of goods and services and
are normally owned by companies who provide goods or services. Trade
marks can be registered. Use of someone else's trade mark is against
the law. In the case of the T-ABC's Forever group, I don't think
that it is a provider of goods or services, certainly not on a
commercial basis.

You have to think through what registration will give you. It will
give you the right to prevent others from using the design, HOWEVER,
you have to go to court to do so (at least that's the case in Oz and
I presume the US is similar). Therefore you have to ask yourself -
are you/we prepared to go to court to sue an infringer?

I think that copyright gives enough protection and that a simple
copyright notice in any printed forms of the badge will suffice (hard
to do on the badge itself). The copyright symbol is simply a
reminder that someone owns copyright in the design.

IMHO there's no need to go to the expense and bother of registration,
be that copyright or trade mark.

I should add that this is not legal advice and that I'm not a lawyer,
just someone with a bit of experience in the field.

Mark Jablonski
Melbourne, Australia
TC6022 TC4820

--- In mg-tabc@egroups.com, Jbtc48@a... wrote:
> Austin;
> I spoke with our law firm this AM.
> We can register the design of the badge in colors or single color,
as long as
> the design retains its integrity.
> Registrarion can be in an individuals, partners, or corporate name.
> Since we are not a corporation or a partnership it appears that an
> individual,such as yourself can register the design.
> In the US the cost of incorporation runs about $200. Officers have
to be
> nominated elected, and records have to be kept.
> It appears that the easiest way to deal with this problem is to
have
you, as
> an individual register the design and grant the right, at your
discression,to
> any individual who wants to reproduce the design.
> I am not sure of the cost to register but I don't believe it is
expensive.
> As a personal suggestion, I believe it is best for you to register
the design
> and grant the right to others to use it, at your discression.
> The cost of registration can be incorporated into the total cost
of
the
> badges sold. It should only add a dollor or two to the cost of
each
badge.
> Our law firm will call back this PM if they find that there is any
unforseen
> glitch in this approach. They may be able to refer you to a law
firm
in your
> area that does trademarks.
> Regards,
> Joe B

[MDandGI@webtv.net]

Mark makes an interesting point re Copyright. may I remind all our
readers that the MG company (Who ever that may be right now) has tried
for years to stop the reproduction of the MG logo without success
although it is a legal C/R and is registered. For what its worth I don't
feel we need to do much more than produce the badge and sell it . Who
wants to get into a legal fight over a simple symbol, whats more the
people who will buy this are located in various countries where such
legal action could prove to be a nightmare. At the end of the day it's
just a badge like thousands of others, nice, proud to display but still
just a badge!

Regards Geoff

[Austin R. Baer]

Hi, all... Thanks to Mark, Geoff and Joe Bernet (and others) for the
"copyright/registration" inputs. I tend to agree with the idea that any
protection is only as good as our willingness to dispute any infringements,
and that our rights would be abandoned if we are unwilling to do so.
Unfortunately, I do have experience in what those costs can be.

I have a call in to my patent attorneys, with whom I have been working for
over forty years, to clarify these issues. However, I want to assure
everyone that, even if we find that it is best to simply post a "circle C"
within the badge design, and, for identification purposes, that I need to
sign off as the owner/author, the list members will have any and all rights
to it, as I do not wish to have any proprietary interest. The design
belongs to the group.

I'll let you all know what the options are, but I agree that we should not
add much cost, if any, to producing the badge. We may at least owe Mike
Sherrell a debt of gratitude for part of our name, the Abingdon folks for
the octagon logo and a bunch of talented people for the design of the car
(which was, incidentally, selected by the Museum of Modern Art in New York
City for display in a '50s exhibit), all of which appear on our badge. So,
I am not exactly in the position of "originator", despite the development of
the badge.

All the best,

Austin