XPAG Pistons and Rings

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Werner Hofstetter
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:50 pm

XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Werner Hofstetter » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:39 am

After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?

Werner

TC 3078

Switzerland


Frank Graham
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:12 pm

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Frank Graham » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:35 am

#ygrps-yiv-1895144849 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} If you know the dimensions of the current rings check and see if either Sealed Power or Total Seal offer a set of gapless rings that will fit your pistons. Frank [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:20 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings    

After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?

Werner

TC 3078

Switzerland


Bill Hyatt
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:23 am

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Bill Hyatt » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:15 am

Werner,Not enough info to resolve your question as to breaking in rings.Could be any number of causes that fitting new pistons/rings may or may not fix. Was there a leak down test?  Were cylinders honed to break    up any glazing? Were cylinder bores checked     with bore gage for taper/out of    round on ring working area?  Were valve guides checked for     out of spec. wear? Is piston ring gap clearance, side    side clearance in or out of spec.? Proper ring break-in procedure   Carried out? Was there any welding of    aluminum transferred to top    of rings from piston lands? https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2018/05/how-to-break-in-your-piston-rings-the-right-way/And: https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/breakin_procedure.htm https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/11/13/engine-break-guide-10-tips-help-properly-break-engine/

Straight break-in mineral oil    used? oil changed from break-in oil to    daily driver oil after 750km or    so? Personally my preferred method of breaking in new rings when fitting new pistons & rings to freshly deglazed cylinder is to: mix up a slurry of oil and Bon Ami    scouring powder Slather the slurry on installed    rings fit to pistons. With piston fit to rod install    assembly, piston first into TOP of    block Using rod, cycle assembly up    and down throughout full engine    stroke  length 10-12 times. thoroughly clean cylinder,        Pistons & rings with hot soapy    water several times! wipe down cylinders with clean    lint free white cloth & ATF or 2    cycle oil till absolutely clean. When Ford had customer complaints re.New car rings not seating their solution was to pour a few ounces (60-90cc s) of petrol, oil, Bon Ami mix down carb. & start engine. Made big smoke screen in neighborhood, but seated rings reliably. This -assuming - cylinder is round & not tapered, as might be expected on high mileage engine, should assure good ring break in, and minimal Leak-down on post-installation test after driving a couple of hundred km. XPAG valve guides are prone to excess wear & can overload E. valve seals. Easy to confirm with Leak Down test. If do not opt for slurry treatment follow steps in links provided above, or straight from ring mfgr. who have a vested interest in insuring customers are happy & repeat buyers. https://www.enginelabs.com/features/editorials-opinions/tech5-total-seals-keith-jones-offers-break-in-advice/ WSHTC 4926 -Bill HyattSent from my iPhone
On Mar 5, 2019, at 10:20 AM, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?

Werner

TC 3078

Switzerland


Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:52 pm

I have used this type of ring on engines from time to time and have not had any problems. One must be careful on assembly that the rings and expander are placed properly and do not overlap where they shouldn't. Steve TC2911 --------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/5/19, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 5, 2019, 10:20 AM After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing). My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers? Werner TC 3078 Switzerland #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108 -- #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp #yiv2334370108hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp #yiv2334370108ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp .yiv2334370108ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp .yiv2334370108ad p { margin:0;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-mkp .yiv2334370108ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-sponsor #yiv2334370108ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-sponsor #yiv2334370108ygrp-lc #yiv2334370108hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv2334370108 #yiv2334370108ygrp-sponsor #yiv2334370108ygrp-lc .yiv2334370108ad { 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Bill Hyatt
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:23 am

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Bill Hyatt » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:32 pm

Frank,Last I looked Hastingshttps://www.hastingspistonrings.com/still offered XPAG rings as a cataloged part off shelf. -Bill HyattSent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2019, at 1:35 PM, Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  If you know the dimensions of the current rings check and see if either Sealed Power or Total Seal offer a set of gapless rings that will fit your pistons. Frank [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:20 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings    

After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?

Werner

TC 3078

Switzerland


Werner Hofstetter
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:50 pm

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Werner Hofstetter » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:14 am

Many thanks to all who responded. The general consensus apart from other valuable hints seems to be to give the engine more running-in time in order to settle the rings properly. I will have to go for runs during nights in order to not stretch the peoples goodwill for old cars towing a blue plume of smoke behind my TC . . .

 


Clive Sherriff
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:11 pm

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Clive Sherriff » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:09 am

I've missed some of this threads replies, but for what it's worth getting blue smoke is not unusual after a rebore with new pistons / rings. It usually settles down quickly as the rings wear into the bores. Is it happening on all cylinders ? The plugs should show that. However, with today's highly developed oils this sometimes does not happen. These oils are just too slippery to let the rings wear against our old cast iron cylinder walls and so they don't bed in properly. E.g. Synthetics are not good news for running in on our old engines. Whilst another cause with the rings you are describing is that one or both of the flat rings were twisted on assembly by the machine shop (not too hard to do if you are not used to them as yours seems not to have been) However, if that was OK, then I have on a number of occasions when presented with this blue smoke problem, drained the "Super / Synthetic whatever Oil" out and run the car for a while (500 - 1000 miles) on a straight old fashioned oil without all the additives and the problem has disappeared, usually after just a few 100 miles. Might be worth a try if all else seems OK. CliveOxford UKm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmma few K miles. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1552107431&sig=b85vlGdNRYbcvH38B.WnaA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:21, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).[u][/u][u][/u]

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?[u][/u][u][/u]

Werner[u][/u][u][/u]

TC 3078[u][/u][u][/u]

Switzerland[u][/u][u][/u]

[img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1552107431&sig=b85vlGdNRYbcvH38B.WnaA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

Tweed
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:46 pm

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Tweed » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:41 am

Being 'too easy' on a newly built engine can cause the bores to glaze.  A friend of mine rebuilt the engine in his wife's Austin A40 and she 'ran it in' to the book.  After 1500 miles it was still smoking like pipe and the guy that did the rebore suggested putting a spoonful of scouring powder done each bore and running it for a 50 miles or so!   Obviously he didn't, he opted for honing the bores with a glazebuster! Don't be afraid of making the engine work a bit.  TweedTC 0632Cambridge UK   
On Friday, 8 March 2019, 11:09:45 GMT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  I've missed some of this threads replies, but for what it's worth getting blue smoke is not unusual after a rebore with new pistons / rings.  It usually settles down quickly as the rings wear into the bores.  Is it happening on all cylinders ?  The plugs should show that. However, with today's highly developed oils this sometimes does not happen.  These oils are just too slippery to let the rings wear against our old cast iron cylinder walls and so they don't bed in properly.  E.g. Synthetics are not good news for running in on our old engines. Whilst another cause with the rings you are describing is that one or both of the flat rings were twisted on assembly by the machine shop (not too hard to do if you are not used to them as yours seems not to have been)  However, if that was OK, then I have on a number of occasions when presented with this blue smoke problem, drained the "Super / Synthetic whatever Oil" out and run the car for a while (500 - 1000 miles) on a straight old fashioned oil without all the additives and the problem has disappeared, usually after just a few 100 miles.  Might be worth a try if all else seems OK. CliveOxford UKm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmma few K miles. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1552107431&sig=b85vlGdNRYbcvH38B.WnaA--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avast.com On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:21, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u]   After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).[u][/u][u][/u]

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?[u][/u][u][/u]

Werner[u][/u][u][/u]

TC 3078[u][/u][u][/u]

Switzerland[u][/u][u][/u]

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Bob Grunau
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:26 am

Re: XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by Bob Grunau » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:39 am

Might be the valve seals?? The first TD engine I built in 1958 was horrible smoke, turns out the young idiot who installed the valve seals put them in wrong and the O rings were not trapped by the spring keepers/washer. Horrible smoke!! Yes, that we me. Never again J

Bob

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, March 08, 2019 6:09 AM [b]To:[/b] Werner Hofstetter [b]Cc:[/b] yahoogroups [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings

 

 

I've missed some of this threads replies, but for what it's worth getting 

blue smoke is not unusual after a rebore with new pistons / rings.  

It usually settles down quickly as the rings wear into the bores.  Is it 

happening on all cylinders ?  The plugs should show that.

 

However, with today's highly developed oils this sometimes does not 

happen.  These oils are just too slippery to let the rings wear against 

our old cast iron cylinder walls and so they don't bed in properly.  E.g. 

Synthetics are not good news for running in on our old engines.

 

Whilst another cause with the rings you are describing is that one or 

both of the flat rings were twisted on assembly by the machine shop (not 

too hard to do if you are not used to them as yours seems not to have been) 

 

However, if that was OK, then I have on a number of occasions when presented 

with this blue smoke problem, drained the "Super / Synthetic whatever Oil" out 

and run the car for a while (500 - 1000 miles) on a straight old fashioned oil 

without all the additives and the problem has disappeared, usually after just a 

few 100 miles. 

 

Might be worth a try if all else seems OK.

 

Clive

Oxford UK

m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

a few K miles.

 

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On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:21, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing).

My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers?

Werner

TC 3078

Switzerland

 

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laf48@aol.com
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:03 pm

Fwd: [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings

Post by laf48@aol.com » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:09 am

Attachments : And this is the BEST a Teflon Positive Stop valve stem seal. $ 38. for a set of 8. In stock. Len Fanelli -----Original Message----- From: 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: 'CLIVE SHERRIFF' csherriff99@gmail.com>; 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch> Cc: 'yahoogroups' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2019 8:39 am Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings #ygrps-yiv-2087390639 #ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567 -- .ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#ygrps-yiv-2087390639 #ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567 div.ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;}#ygrps-yiv-2087390639 #ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567 div.ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567photo-title a, #ygrps-yiv-2087390639 #ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567 div.ygrps-yiv-2087390639yiv6825163567photo-title 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The first TD engine I built in 1958 was horrible smoke, turns out the young idiot who installed the valve seals put them in wrong and the O rings were not trapped by the spring keepers/washer. Horrible smoke!! Yes, that we me. Never again  J Bob   [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, March 08, 2019 6:09 AM [b]To:[/b] Werner Hofstetter [b]Cc:[/b] yahoogroups [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] XPAG Pistons and Rings     I've missed some of this threads replies, but for what it's worth getting  blue smoke is not unusual after a rebore with new pistons / rings.   It usually settles down quickly as the rings wear into the bores.  Is it  happening on all cylinders ?  The plugs should show that.   However, with today's highly developed oils this sometimes does not  happen.  These oils are just too slippery to let the rings wear against  our old cast iron cylinder walls and so they don't bed in properly.  E.g.  Synthetics are not good news for running in on our old engines.   Whilst another cause with the rings you are describing is that one or  both of the flat rings were twisted on assembly by the machine shop (not  too hard to do if you are not used to them as yours seems not to have been)    However, if that was OK, then I have on a number of occasions when presented  with this blue smoke problem, drained the "Super / Synthetic whatever Oil" out  and run the car for a while (500 - 1000 miles) on a straight old fashioned oil  without all the additives and the problem has disappeared, usually after just a  few 100 miles.    Might be worth a try if all else seems OK.   Clive Oxford UK m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm a few K miles.   [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1552107431&sig=b85vlGdNRYbcvH38B.WnaA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com  
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 16:21, 'Werner Hofstetter' hofstetter.werner@bluewin.ch [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  After 115'000 kms since the last rebuild 15 years ago, I had my engine honed and rebuilt. Amongst other new items I chose Aerolite Pistons from a large US MG parts supplier. Unfortunately with the result of thick blue smoke coming from the exhaust when accelerating. Now I am looking again for new Pistons (1'250 cc + 0.80) and Rings for fast road use (no racing). My engine shop man did not like the rings that came with the Pistons, in particular the Oil Scraper ring (No. 3) which consists of two separate flat rings with some sort of corrugated springy steel in between. He prefers a solid, slotted ring with a circumferencial spring over a guiding wire behind it. What are the groups view? Any suggestions for Brands/Suppliers? Werner TC 3078 Switzerland   [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1552107431&sig=b85vlGdNRYbcvH38B.WnaA--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

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