old dual sport guy here

[jocelynlabreche]

Hi, Something strange happened to me on my way back home from work. I have a commute of 80km, and before leaving work I already had 370km on my last tank refill. I know by experience that I usually hit the reserve around 400~410km, so to avoid messing with the fuel valve on the highway I decided to put it on reserve rigth away before leaving. No problem there, I know that I can go well over 460km on a tank, since I usually fill her up with 20 liters or so when it has 450km done. Halfway in my commute on the highway the bike starts to sputter just like it's about to go out of fuel and finaly dies a few seconds later. At that point I was sure I was out of fuel but I also knew that there is some fuel on the right side of the tank that can't be reached under normal circumstances. So I leant the bike on its left side to get all the remaining fuel on the good side, put it back up and cranked it. After a couple of seconds it fired up and I aimed for the closest gas station since I was convinced that I was running on the last onces of fuel. I was expecting to put close to 25 liters of fuel in the tank but to my surprise it was filled up with only 17 liters which is well under the reserve threshold ! I had no other problem after that. Anybody has a clue to what happened ? Thanks, JL

[Big Foot]

In my opinion you had a vacuum lock, all you needed to do was open the gas cap to release the pressure, it has happened to me. As always I could be wrong. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 5:26 PM, jocelynlabreche@... [DSN_KLR650]DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Hi, Something strange happened to me on my way back home from work. I have a commute of 80km, and before leaving work I already had 370km on my last tank refill. I know by experience that I usually hit the reserve around 400~410km, so to avoid messing with the fuel valve on the highway I decided to put it on reserve rigth away before leaving. No problem there, I know that I can go well over 460km on a tank, since I usually fill her up with 20 liters or so when it has 450km done. Halfway in my commute on the highway the bike starts to sputter just like it's about to go out of fuel and finaly dies a few seconds later. At that point I was sure I was out of fuel but I also knew that there is some fuel on the right side of the tank that can't be reached under normal circumstances. So I leant the bike on its left side to get all the remaining fuel on the good side, put it back up and cranked it. After a couple of seconds it fired up and I aimed for the closest gas station since I was convinced that I was running on the last onces of fuel. I was expecting to put close to 25 liters of fuel in the tank but to my surprise it was filled up with only 17 liters which is well under the reserve threshold ! I had no other problem after that. Anybody has a clue to what happened ? Thanks, JL

[jocelynlabreche]

That could make sense. I have heard of vapor locks but I am not sure it is the same than a vacuum lock.

I will try to find more information about that.

Thanks !

[Martin Earl]

JL,the short answer: the only thing that worked was I installed another petcock. the long answerI changed: fuel lines, a gas cap, vacc line, ran the bike with the gas cap open (yikes)put a rebuild kit in the petcock,insulated the fuel line with foil,talked ugly to the bike. cough. finally changed the petcock assembly (ebay or other such sources) and it cured the stumbling. Still don't know why; it just did. m1.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:26 PM, jocelynlabreche@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi, Something strange happened to me on my way back home from work. I have a commute of 80km, and before leaving work I already had 370km on my last tank refill. I know by experience that I usually hit the reserve around 400~410km, so to avoid messing with the fuel valve on the highway I decided to put it on reserve rigth away before leaving. No problem there, I know that I can go well over 460km on a tank, since I usually fill her up with 20 liters or so when it has 450km done. Halfway in my commute on the highway the bike starts to sputter just like it's about to go out of fuel and finaly dies a few seconds later. At that point I was sure I was out of fuel but I also knew that there is some fuel on the right side of the tank that can't be reached under normal circumstances. So I leant the bike on its left side to get all the remaining fuel on the good side, put it back up and cranked it. After a couple of seconds it fired up and I aimed for the closest gas station since I was convinced that I was running on the last onces of fuel. I was expecting to put close to 25 liters of fuel in the tank but to my surprise it was filled up with only 17 liters which is well under the reserve threshold ! I had no other problem after that. Anybody has a clue to what happened ? Thanks, JL

[Norm Keller]

Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?

I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.

[SniperOne308]

I had the same issue with my '00, and went through all the same attempts as Martin plus pulling the tank to clean it even though I never found the screen anything but pristine.  When I converted the petcock to gravity feed with one of Jeff's plates the issue disappeared.Randy  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Date: 9/28/16 10:07 PM (GMT-07:00) To: DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com>, jocelynlabreche@... Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Fuel tank mystery.   JL,the short answer: the only thing that worked was I installed another petcock. the long answerI changed: fuel lines, a gas cap,  vacc line, ran the bike with the gas cap open (yikes)put a rebuild kit in the petcock,insulated the fuel line with foil,talked ugly to the bike. cough. finally changed the petcock assembly (ebay or other such sources) and it cured the stumbling. Still don't know why; it just did. m1.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:26 PM, jocelynlabreche@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi, Something strange happened to me on my way back home from work. I have a commute of 80km, and before leaving work I already had 370km on my last tank refill. I know by experience that I usually hit the reserve around 400~410km, so to avoid messing with the fuel valve on the highway I decided to put it on reserve rigth away before leaving. No problem there, I know that I can go well over 460km on a tank, since I usually fill her up with 20 liters or so when it has 450km done. Halfway in my commute on the highway the bike starts to sputter just like it's about to go out of fuel and finaly dies a few seconds later. At that point I was sure I was out of fuel but I also knew that there is some fuel on the right side of the tank that can't be reached under normal circumstances. So I leant the bike on its left side to get all the remaining fuel on the good side, put it back up and cranked it. After a couple of seconds it fired up and I aimed for the closest gas station since I was convinced that I was running on the last onces of fuel. I was expecting to put close to 25 liters of fuel in the tank but to my surprise it was filled up with only 17 liters which is well under the reserve threshold ! I had no other problem after that. Anybody has a clue to what happened ? Thanks, JL

[Martin Earl]

Hi Norm,The clogged screen seems logical, though the screen looked clean visually, and compared to another petcock, looked the same.Additionally, I think I sprayed out the screens with carb cleaner. without any effect. The one thing I don't think I did was a flow test through the petcock, which I suggest that JL should do.Trouble shooting and validating another persons petcock problem with Jeff Saline, we started a problem free KLR, and allowed the fuel bowl to be completely full.We then removed the fuel line from the carb, placed the fuel line in a beaker and started the bike and a stop watch. We observed (as I recall) at least a 1.5L/minute so we felt that a KLR bike could not possibly be consuming fuel faster than fuel deliver = no fuel delivery problem if you observed that kind of fuel flow. Unfortunately, I don't think I did that...but changing the petcock fixed the problem. m1.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Norm Keller normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?

I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.

[Martin Earl]

Hi Norm,The clogged screen seems logical, though the screen looked clean visually, and compared to another petcock, looked the same.Additionally, I think I sprayed out the screens with carb cleaner. without any effect. The one thing I don't think I did was a flow test through the petcock, which I suggest that JL should do.Trouble shooting and validating another persons petcock problem with Jeff Saline, we started a problem free KLR, and allowed the fuel bowl to be completely full.We then removed the fuel line from the carb, placed the fuel line in a beaker and started the bike and a stop watch. We observed (as I recall) at least a 1.5L/minute so we felt that the bike could not possibly be consuming fuel faster than fuel deliver = no fuel delivery problem.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Norm Keller normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?

I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.

[Yahoo]

Could that be from ethanol? I avoid ethanol laced gasoline. Paul Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:53 AM, "Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Hi Norm,The clogged screen seems logical, though the screen looked clean visually, and compared to another petcock, looked the same.Additionally, I think I sprayed out the screens with carb cleaner. without any effect. The one thing I don't think I did was a flow test through the petcock, which I suggest that JL should do.Trouble shooting and validating another persons petcock problem with Jeff Saline, we started a problem free KLR, and allowed the fuel bowl to be completely full.We then removed the fuel line from the carb, placed the fuel line in a beaker and started the bike and a stop watch.  We observed (as I recall) at least a 1.5L/minute so we felt that the bike could not possibly be consuming fuel faster than fuel deliver = no fuel delivery problem.  On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Norm Keller normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?

I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.

[jeffsaline]

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#ygrps-yiv-56745146hd { FONT-SIZE:85%;FONT-WEIGHT:700;COLOR:#628c2a;MARGIN:10px 0px;LINE-HEIGHT:122%;} #ygrps-yiv-56745146 #ygrps-yiv-56745146ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-56745146ads { MARGIN-BOTTOM:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-56745146 #ygrps-yiv-56745146ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-56745146ad { PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-56745146 #ygrps-yiv-56745146ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-56745146ad P { MARGIN:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-56745146 #ygrps-yiv-56745146ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-56745146ad A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;COLOR:#0000ff;} Listers,   I recently read on a Ural forum about a guy using a stainless steel paint gun filter on a petcock draw straw.  No long term results were available but it fixed a clogged screen fuel delivery issue.   It was stated the filter was bought at Lowe's and was Wagner PN 0516720.   I doubt the filters on the drawstraws are the issue.   Doing fuel delivery tests I suggest the norm is a gallon in three to six minutes.  If it is slower than that it might suggest an issue with the petcock.  A clogged tank vent system will also cause a reduced flow after a bit of fuel has been used and allowed a vacuum in the fuel tank.  Sometimes that is corrected by finding a pinched vent line from installing the seat carelessly.  Also if the end of the vent line is clogged (mud or insects) it can cause a vacuum in the tank.   The stock KLR petcock has two valves.  The first valve is the one on the side you can turn to select off, on or reserve.  That is the selector valve.  That valve determines if or how fuel will leave the fuel tank and be delivered to the petcock.  After fuel gets to the petcock the second valve is in play.  The second valve is the vacuum shutoff valve.  The vacuum shutoff valve determines if/when fuel will leave the petcock and be delivered to the carb.  The vacuum shutoff valve is controlled by a spring and vacuum.  The spring holds the valve closed until vacuum delivered when the engine is running overcomes the spring pressure and opens the valve.  When the engine stops the vacuum is gone and the spring pressure closes the valve.   If the vacuum line to the petcock is old it might leak a bit of vacuum.  You get two issues if that happens.  One is the vacuum might not be strong enough to fully open the vacuum shutoff valve and fuel delivery will be reduced.  The second issue is a vacuum leak will allow air into the intake after the carb and lean the air/fuel mixture.  In most cases you probably won't be able to tell a difference in engine performance except maybe at idle on a warm/hot engine.   Another issue that happens is the vacuum diaphragm in the petcock leaks and can't pull the vacuum shutoff valve fully open.  That can be a very difficult issue to resolve.  A fuel delivery test can give you data for evaluation.  If the vacuum diaphragm leaks fuel into the vacuum line it can cause stalling in closed throttle situations.  The fuel can be burnt at higher throttle settings but at idle/closed throttle it causes such a rich air/fuel mixture it is too rich to combust and the engine dies.  The test for that is to ride the bike.  Do a closed throttle deceleration and immediately pull off the road.  Remove the vacuum line and look inside it.  It should be dry.  If it is wet, damp, dripping fuel it suggests the vacuum diaphragm is leaking fuel and is causing the won't idle/dying situation.  Sometimes a rider will have the won't idle situation and will turn the idle adjusting screw to raise the idle.  What that does is open the throttle plate a bit allowing more air and leaning the rich mixture.  That allows the engine to run but the idle will now be too high.  Factory specs for the idle speed are 1,200-1,400 rpm although some owners have excellent results as low as 800 rpm.   I'll suggest having reduced fuel delivery or no fuel delivery when the tank isn't full sometimes happens.  I've had it happen to me and switching to reserve fixed the issue.  Next ride (knowing I had plenty of fuel) I switched back to on and everything worked fine.  No idea what happened and for me that is a question not worth searching for an answer.  I'll suggest it is maybe a good practice to not run a tank extremely low on fuel if it can be avoided.  I would also not intentionally put the petcock in reserve mode unless the on mode wasn't delivering fuel.  Different strokes for different folks and I'll encourage you to do what works well for you.   A clogged carb vent will cause an engine to not run as it will prevent fuel from filling the carb float bowl.  Doing the "tee" mod if usually an excellent preventative measure.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650   <><><><><><> On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:52:13 -0600 "Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   Hi Norm, The clogged screen seems logical, though the screen looked clean visually, and compared to another petcock, looked the same. Additionally, I think I sprayed out the screens with carb cleaner. without any effect. The one thing I don't think I did was a flow test through the petcock, which I suggest that JL should do. Trouble shooting and validating another persons petcock problem with Jeff Saline, we started a problem free KLR, and allowed the fuel bowl to be completely full. We then removed the fuel line from the carb, placed the fuel line in a beaker and started the bike and a stop watch.  We observed (as I recall) at least a 1.5L/minute so we felt that a KLR bike could not possibly be consuming fuel faster than fuel deliver = no fuel delivery problem if you observed that kind of fuel flow.   Unfortunately, I don't think I did that...but changing the petcock fixed the problem.   m1.   On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Norm Keller normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Martin, could the problem with your petcock, have been plugged screen(s)?   I've seen that on several types of machines in the last few years. There appears to be a "chalk-like" material which has built up on the screen wires, which restricted flow.   . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]How To Fix Your Fatigue (Do This Every Day)[/b] gundrymd.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3142/57ed43582229a43581892st01vuc [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F% ... JF1RDg--~E[/img]