lowering links . . . kickstand cutting

[RobertWichert]

OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the following: 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it was hard to stop. This made me fall. 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made me fall. 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost ground clearance. So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to be pointed up though. On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the freeway. I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a little. All things considered, it feels great. Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? Nobody sells lowering forks. Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. -- Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

[Jud]

The reason it seems more than 2" lower is because the link gives the swing arm more leverage over the spring, effectively softening the spring. To get your lowered bike to handle as well as it can, use the preload adjustment to set the rear spring so that it sags no more than about 3" with the weight of you and your luggage on the bike. If the sag was close to right before you installed the link, you will have to bump up the preload. If the sag was too much, you will have to bump it up still more. If you are heavy, you might even need a stiffer spring. If your rear spring is too soft, leaving the forks at stock height might simply slow down the steering without making the bike more stable. On the contrary, it could exacerbate the weight transfer to the rear wheel, unweighting the front, and give you really evil, unstable, handling combined with slower steering. It will feel stable until you get into the wrong set of conditions. If you are a slow enough rider, it may never plague you, but someday you will be in a hurry, with a big load, in a crosswind, and your bike may really scare you, or even spit you off.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, RobertWichert wrote: > > OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the > following: > > 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it > was hard to stop. This made me fall. > > 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made > me fall. > > 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. > > 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. > > 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. > > 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost > ground clearance. > > > So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to > swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more > when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. > > It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. > > Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to > be pointed up though. > > On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. > Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. > > I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only > see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the freeway. > > I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded > on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a > little. > > > All things considered, it feels great. > > > Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down > another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? > > Nobody sells lowering forks. > > > Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get > on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride > standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and > with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing > is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. > > > > > -- > > > > Robert P. Wichert P.Eng > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== >

[stuart sullivan]

Robert, i did all the above or i guess the below with the lowering links but i ended going back to stock as i found that after i loaded up the bike as in aluminum side panniers,top trunk,"blah blah" the bike was kissing the tarmac every chance it got even with the preload cranked right up and i to had an upgraded the skid plate"Good thing",course if you don't have the cases on then it might be Ok. I did not drop the forks in the clamps at first but found that the stearing was shall we say a little light so i took them down about the same amount as the lowering links 1 3/4",i ended up taking 2'' off the top of the  stock seat not the perfect solution but i can now get both balls of my feet down,i did drop it while parked on a slight off camber bit of dirt on the weekend and you always feel like a "Twit"when it happens but it's just something you have to live with i suppose when your vertically challenged.                                                                                                     Stu. P.S.I'll probably go with a lower after market seat next year or some platform boots"Not". To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: robert@... Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:05:38 -0700 Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Lowering Links - Ride Report   OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the following: 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it was hard to stop. This made me fall. 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made me fall. 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost ground clearance. So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to be pointed up though. On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the freeway. I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a little. All things considered, it feels great. Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? Nobody sells lowering forks. Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. -- Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ======================================================== #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxhd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxads {margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxad {padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass #ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-320038894ecxad p {} #ygrps-yiv-320038894 .ygrps-yiv-320038894ExternalClass 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[RobertWichert]

10-4 on the rear spring.  It's softer now.  I'm not sure this is a problem, but it's softer.  This makes it more difficult to do clutch wheelies at stop signs since it squats instead of popping the front end.  I might change it.  Other than that, what handling is affected by the rear spring?  I'm thinking it only affects bumps, and I'm not much a a whoop-dee-doo guy. Spring rate will exacerbate the weight transfer to the rear wheel?  You lost me there.  It will squat more, but it's the weight transfer that makes it squat, not the other way around.  On the freeway (I got it up to 80 MPH indicated) in numerous truck wakes and cross wind (maybe 10-15 MPH) it was more stable than stock.  You're right about it putting more weight on the rear wheel at rest and at steady-state though.  It appears to me, based on my test, that the increased rake and trail is more effective than the weight transfer and the net result is more stable steering.  I don't know about "slower". Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

On 10/5/2010 7:24 PM, Jud wrote:   The reason it seems more than 2" lower is because the link gives the swing arm more leverage over the spring, effectively softening the spring. To get your lowered bike to handle as well as it can, use the preload adjustment to set the rear spring so that it sags no more than about 3" with the weight of you and your luggage on the bike. If the sag was close to right before you installed the link, you will have to bump up the preload. If the sag was too much, you will have to bump it up still more. If you are heavy, you might even need a stiffer spring. If your rear spring is too soft, leaving the forks at stock height might simply slow down the steering without making the bike more stable. On the contrary, it could exacerbate the weight transfer to the rear wheel, unweighting the front, and give you really evil, unstable, handling combined with slower steering. It will feel stable until you get into the wrong set of conditions. If you are a slow enough rider, it may never plague you, but someday you will be in a hurry, with a big load, in a crosswind, and your bike may really scare you, or even spit you off. --- In DSN_KLR650%40yahoogroups.com, RobertWichert robert@... wrote: > > OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the > following: > > 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it > was hard to stop. This made me fall. > > 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made > me fall. > > 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. > > 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. > > 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. > > 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost > ground clearance. > > > So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to > swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more > when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. > > It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. > > Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to > be pointed up though. > > On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. > Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. > > I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only > see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the freeway. > > I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded > on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a > little. > > > All things considered, it feels great. > > > Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down > another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? > > Nobody sells lowering forks. > > > Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get > on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride > standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and > with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing > is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. > > > > > -- > > > > Robert P. Wichert P.Eng > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== >

[RobertWichert]

I don't put anything heavy on the back, but I guess I could put my wife on there and try it! It doesn't hit the skid plate on the road though, I'm sure. That's not even possible on the flat, is it? As I said previously, the steering actually feels more stable, but I guess if you had mucho weight on the back, that would mess it up big time any way. Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

On 10/5/2010 9:54 PM, stuart sullivan wrote: Robert, i did all the above or i guess the below with the lowering links but i ended going back to stock as i found that after i loaded up the bike as in aluminum side panniers,top trunk,"blah blah" the bike was kissing the tarmac every chance it got even with the preload cranked right up and i to had an upgraded the skid plate"Good thing",course if you don't have the cases on then it might be Ok. I did not drop the forks in the clamps at first but found that the stearing was shall we say a little light so i took them down about the same amount as the lowering links 1 3/4",i ended up taking 2'' off the top of the stock seat not the perfect solution but i can now get both balls of my feet down,i did drop it while parked on a slight off camber bit of dirt on the weekend and you always feel like a "Twit"when it happens but it's just something you have to live with i suppose when your vertically challenged. ; Stu. P.S.I'll probably go with a lower after market seat next year or some platform boots"Not". To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com From: robert@... Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:05:38 -0700 Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Lowering Links - Ride Report OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the following: 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it was hard to stop. This made me fall. 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made me fall. 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost ground clearance. So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to be pointed up though. On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the freeway. I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a little. All things considered, it feels great. Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? Nobody sells lowering forks. Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. -- Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

[RobertWichert]

You make wooden boats?  Just cut it off and make a wood bottom piece.  Nail the sucker on!  It's a kick-stand, not a cylinder head!  Have fun with it! Robert P. Wichert P.Eng +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ========================================================

On 10/6/2010 7:11 AM, Ron Magen wrote:   > 6a. Lowering Links - Ride Report > I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded > on. . . .http://www.iolo.com

[fasteddiecopeman]

Robert, When mine was lowered (1 1/2", and I'm 180 pounds or so) I found it would bottom on the engine guard as I rode thru gentle 'whoops' on dirt roads. Because I have a center-stand it would take a lot of the 'brunt', transferring it to my footpeg bolts which then failed, and I upgraded them from p*ss-ant 8mm square nuts and bolts to 10mm hex grade 8, and they've been fine since. I also raised the KLR back to stock and welded a piece back into the side-stand. Wanna buy a center-stand for a lowered bike...? Cheers, Ed

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, RobertWichert wrote: > > I don't put anything heavy on the back, but I guess I could put my > wife on there and try it! > > It doesn't hit the skid plate on the road though, I'm sure. That's not > even possible on the flat, is it? > > As I said previously, the steering actually feels more stable, but I > guess if you had mucho weight on the back, that would mess it up big > time any way. > > > > Robert P. Wichert P.Eng > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > > > On 10/5/2010 9:54 PM, stuart sullivan wrote: > > > > Robert, i did all the above or i guess the below with the lowering > > links but i ended going back to stock as i found that after i loaded > > up the bike as in aluminum side panniers,top trunk,"blah blah" the > > bike was kissing the tarmac every chance it got even with the preload > > cranked right up and i to had an upgraded the skid plate"Good > > thing",course if you don't have the cases on then it might be Ok. > > > > I did not drop the forks in the clamps at first but found that the > > stearing was shall we say a little light so i took them down about the > > same amount as the lowering links 1 3/4",i ended up taking 2'' off the > > top of the stock seat not the perfect solution but i can now get both > > balls of my feet down,i did drop it while parked on a slight off > > camber bit of dirt on the weekend and you always feel like a > > "Twit"when it happens but it's just something you have to live with i > > suppose when your vertically challenged. > > > > > > ; > > Stu. > > > > P.S.I'll probably go with a lower after market seat next year or some > > platform boots"Not". > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > > From: robert@... > > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:05:38 -0700 > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Lowering Links - Ride Report > > > > OK, so I decided to try the lowering links. This was based on the > > following: > > > > 1) By the time I got my foot down, the bike was so far over that it > > was hard to stop. This made me fall. > > > > 2) If the ground sloped away, I couldn't catch the bike. This made > > me fall. > > > > 3) When I fall, 2" less to fall would be good. > > > > 4) I don't ride fast enough to bottom out the shocks or the forks. > > > > 5) Lower CG can't be all bad. It might corner better. > > > > 6) I'll put a better skid plate on anyway to make up for the lost > > ground clearance. > > > > So upon first sit, it seems more than 2" lower. I mean, it's easier to > > swing over, it feels lower, and it even feels like my legs are bent more > > when I'm sitting with my feet on the pegs. This cannot be true. > > > > It also feels like the front end is pointed up. I guess it is. > > > > Riding is feeling normal in about 50 meters. The front end does seem to > > be pointed up though. > > > > On the freeway, it is actually MORE stable in winds and wakes. > > Noticeably so. More rake and trail should do that, and it does. > > > > I "may" lower the forks in the triple tree, or maybe not. I can only > > see 1" free distance there, and I kind of like the stability on the > > freeway. > > > > I cut off the kickstand and now I need to get a new bottom piece welded > > on. I have a PVC pipe plug in there for now to spread out the load a > > little. > > > > All things considered, it feels great. > > > > Progressive sells a "One-Inch-Lower" rear shock. Would that put me down > > another inch, for a total of 3" lower than stock? > > > > Nobody sells lowering forks. > > > > Just to clarify, I could always reach the ground and I could always get > > on the bike with no problem. I am just not good enough to always ride > > standing up on the pegs and balancing. I have to put a foot down, and > > with the standard height, I was always too far over and the damn thing > > is too heavy to save. So for me, lower is better. > > > > -- > > > > Robert P. Wichert P.Eng > > +1 916 966 9060 > > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > > > ======================================================== > > > > > > >