got me a new used truck

[traderpro2003]

Here's the deal... DS was having problems with the supplier paying attention to details...in Navy special ops, we know this usually gets people killed. Ok, this is merely attempting to substitute stout and reliable zippers for smaller cheaper types that break at the worst time and waste your money. Well, DS said "no thanks" to this supplier. Bitter sweet. Yes, for now the bags are not available, but they are trying to find a new LOCAL Washington supplier. I respect tremendously the adage, if it's worth doing do it right. Many people want to make the bags for DS...people are knocking on their door often actually. But DS wants them made in USA and preferably in Washington where the rest of there gear is made and they can supervise the details (that make the bag so successful). It's noble. I respect and support this (and the company with purchases in past/future). Now here's what disturbed me from my phone call... 1. The people offering to make replacement bags can meet the quality standards, etc. but the manufacturing will be from China. Not the end of the world in today's global economy as most of our bikes are imported including the 1000s of KLRs each year. But these same people want to increase the price by double or more! So it's profit profit profit. I'd rather they be made in the US with a reasonable profit to the local manufacturer/supplier than middlemen with no skin in the game. Beyond this as consumers, if you can't afford it, don't buy it! But jacking the price and off-shoring it in the name of profit??? No thanks. Kudos to DS for sticking to its small business/family business guns here. They like doing what they do and aren't going to bend to cons and the almighty buck. 2. Someone on the board suggested DS customer service is a problem. Well folks, let's get something clear and the facts. You order it you should pay for it. Now I realize somethings just don't work- out. But when you install something and then complain it doesn't fit b/c you didn't know you have a bike that's been lowered? Come on. But it gets better. Someone (you know who you are) orders $300 of goods and then calls the credit card company and cancels the charge...leaving DS out $300 because this person claims they never received it despite DS phone records?? AND then never returning the merchandise? It's wrong and you give other riders a bad image not to mention put undue stress on a small company. This individual should be charged with theft. It's wrong. Furthermore, if you use something but then change your mind, suck it up. Sell it on eBay vs. trying to ram it down DS or some other vendors throat in some worn/used condition. But to have the nerve to threaten them with defaming comments or slanderous remarks on the internet? This is another crime. It's a small market...a tough market...and it only hurts the majority of us when a few bad apples spoil the lot for these suppliers. 3. Lastly, I've become aware that knock-offs of DS products are showing up in a lot of places. These are similar in design but inferior/cheaper quality. To each his own, right? But the bogus thing is the same people buying these DS-like goods are returning them to Dual Star and complaining the quality isn't good and/or want refund/replacement. Well, it's NOT DS product and therefore they aren't going to support or warranty it. These are knock-off products coming from China...cheaper and inferior. So don't mail this crap to DS and then complain it's not a good company standing behind it's products. Personally, I've never had any issues with DS. Not to say the company is perfect in every way either. But do business with them and make the decision for yourself. If you're not satisfied, don't establish a relationship. But don't return your unwanted or (worse) used stuff because you changed your mind, etc. and expect a small company pick-up the tab. Furthermore, don't bad mouth the company or illegally threaten them either. Just move on and post your experience in fact if you must. I have a DS tank bag and other products of theirs and frankly the bag is bombproof, high-quality. See for yourself with other products or if/when the tank bag returns. Just be fair about it and do business in good faith. We need these dealers/suppliers that are committed to the KLR and the sport in general vs. the fly-by-night snake oil salesmen out there looking to make a fast buck with inferior, look- alike products. Thanks for reading. - Brian

[Zachariah Mully]

On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 01:05 +0000, traderpro2003 wrote:

> 1. The people offering to make replacement bags can meet the quality > standards, etc. but the manufacturing will be from China. Not the

And they're losing business because of it. If this was the first time they couldn't deliver a product it might be different, but it seems like DS is in a continual stocking crisis and they've never figured out how to solve whatever problems they're having. If they've not been able to find a manufacturer in China who can do it right for the right price, I'm not sure they're looking hard enough (or more likely, they've a shitty agent in China, people on the ground are crucial for Chinese ventures).

> 2. Someone on the board suggested DS customer service is a problem. > Well folks, let's get something clear and the facts. You order it > you should pay for it.

I think there are plenty of people who have well founded issues with DS customer service. Whether or not people have been trying to rip them off or not is not particular to DS, every business has issues with fraud. But just because you drank the kool aid doesn't mean that month long waits, blatant lies about shipping, poor customer serivce and the like didn't happen. They've made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

> > 3. Lastly, I've become aware that knock-offs of DS products are > showing up in a lot of places. These are similar in design but > inferior/cheaper quality. To each his own, right?

And so? As anyone knows, it's hard to make, maintain and support a brand. Maybe if DS hadn't blown their lead so damn early in the game, the field wouldn't have been left open for others to step in and fill in for their incompetence. The demand has existed for awhile, and as long as I've known about DS, they've had supply and customer service issues. This isn't something that came out of nowhere, they had 3-4 years in which they didn't exploit their first mover advantage. They blew it and now they're paying for it. And I don't particularly see any reason not to make the products in China, if it delivers a good product at a good price. The world is flat now, dotcha know? DS could have dominated their market if they had Aerostitch level customer service, but they didn't, and now that market is very competitive and crowded. Z

[traderpro2003]

Well, I'm not their business manager or advisor, so I'm not sure if logistics are a constant issue. Arguably, local production is old school as is complete vertical integration. However, wanting to support American jobs and maintain a high level of quality aren't bad things. Losing business? Perhaps. But establishing a reputation of...it once made good things but sold-out for profit with cheaper, inferior goods...well, it's hard to bring disenchanted customers back- -especially when find an alternative that will last many many years. These aren't consumables. But the point is they don't want a Chinese supplier. According to DS, everything they supply is made in Washington. You can drive to their suppliers. Is this 100% true? Hmmm. Anyway, I go to China often and could help them with contacts, etc. but flat-out they weren't interested. So I gave them another company in NH that probably could deliver the exact design and quality standards...again cool reception. Well, perhaps the company is being too picky/selective in only using Washington facilities to control QC. In this case, a GM or Toyota wouldn't work.

> And they're losing business because of it. If this was the first

time

> they couldn't deliver a product it might be different, but it seems

like

> DS is in a continual stocking crisis and they've never figured out

how

> to solve whatever problems they're having. If they've not been able

to

> find a manufacturer in China who can do it right for the right

price,

> I'm not sure they're looking hard enough (or more likely, they've a > shitty agent in China, people on the ground are crucial for Chinese > ventures). > > > 2. Someone on the board suggested DS customer service is a

problem.

> > Well folks, let's get something clear and the facts. You order

it

> > you should pay for it. > > > I think there are plenty of people who have well founded issues

with DS

> customer service. Whether or not people have been trying to rip

them off

> or not is not particular to DS, every business has issues with

fraud.

> But just because you drank the kool aid doesn't mean that month long > waits, blatant lies about shipping, poor customer serivce and the

like

> didn't happen. They've made their bed, and now they have to lie in

it.

> > > > > 3. Lastly, I've become aware that knock-offs of DS products are > > showing up in a lot of places. These are similar in design but > > inferior/cheaper quality. To each his own, right? > > And so? As anyone knows, it's hard to make, maintain and support a > brand. Maybe if DS hadn't blown their lead so damn early in the

game,

> the field wouldn't have been left open for others to step in and

fill in

> for their incompetence. The demand has existed for awhile, and as

long

> as I've known about DS, they've had supply and customer service

issues.

> This isn't something that came out of nowhere, they had 3-4 years in > which they didn't exploit their first mover advantage. They blew it

and

> now they're paying for it. And I don't particularly see any reason

not

> to make the products in China, if it delivers a good product at a

good

> price. The world is flat now, dotcha know? > > DS could have dominated their market if they had Aerostitch level > customer service, but they didn't, and now that market is very > competitive and crowded. > > > Z >

[Jim Bolton]

I don't think that many companys make it 3-4 years with shitty service and bad customer relations.... but then there is corbin who has a bad rep and they still soldier on.... not sure why......seems that a company should do it all and then the loyal following would be worth it... Zachariah Mully wrote: On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 01:05 +0000, traderpro2003 wrote:

> 1. The people offering to make replacement bags can meet the quality > standards, etc. but the manufacturing will be from China. Not the

And they're losing business because of it. If this was the first time they couldn't deliver a product it might be different, but it seems like DS is in a continual stocking crisis and they've never figured out how to solve whatever problems they're having. If they've not been able to find a manufacturer in China who can do it right for the right price, I'm not sure they're looking hard enough (or more likely, they've a shitty agent in China, people on the ground are crucial for Chinese ventures).

> 2. Someone on the board suggested DS customer service is a problem. > Well folks, let's get something clear and the facts. You order it > you should pay for it.

I think there are plenty of people who have well founded issues with DS customer service. Whether or not people have been trying to rip them off or not is not particular to DS, every business has issues with fraud. But just because you drank the kool aid doesn't mean that month long waits, blatant lies about shipping, poor customer serivce and the like didn't happen. They've made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

> > 3. Lastly, I've become aware that knock-offs of DS products are > showing up in a lot of places. These are similar in design but > inferior/cheaper quality. To each his own, right?

And so? As anyone knows, it's hard to make, maintain and support a brand. Maybe if DS hadn't blown their lead so damn early in the game, the field wouldn't have been left open for others to step in and fill in for their incompetence. The demand has existed for awhile, and as long as I've known about DS, they've had supply and customer service issues. This isn't something that came out of nowhere, they had 3-4 years in which they didn't exploit their first mover advantage. They blew it and now they're paying for it. And I don't particularly see any reason not to make the products in China, if it delivers a good product at a good price. The world is flat now, dotcha know? DS could have dominated their market if they had Aerostitch level customer service, but they didn't, and now that market is very competitive and crowded. Z --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I had a problem about a year and a half ago about trying to get an IMS tank from them. Got the same run-around about when it would be shipped. -every few weeks I was told it would ship the following week- after about 3 months, I was told there was a supply problem with IMS. I canceled my order then, went on the internet, found another supplier in about 5 minutes (and cheaper by $20), ordered it, and had it in 3 days. Jeff A20 **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[traderpro2003]

As a consumer, you sent the right message. From emails, it appears DS needs some help with logistics and to rethink LT strategies. It's a small, family business that enjoys doing what it's doing. But when consumers like yourself start to shop elsewhere b/c product is not in- stock, or available at the right time...well, this is logistics 101 and sure-fire way to going out of business if you lack diversity and scale in your lines/business. Again, it might be the nature of the business with many of the items not being consumables (like say air/oil filters). Hell, I can't get an Acerbis locking gas cap for the IMS tank from (cranky) Fred until February! Apparently his Moab mule has bad gas from something it ate...shipping all backed-up. That's the rumor anyway...

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, jokerloco9@... wrote: > > I had a problem about a year and a half ago about trying to get an IMS tank > from them. Got the same run-around about when it would be shipped. -every > few weeks I was told it would ship the following week- after about 3 months, I > was told there was a supply problem with IMS. I canceled my order then, went > on the internet, found another supplier in about 5 minutes (and cheaper by > $20), ordered it, and had it in 3 days. > > Jeff A20 > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007? NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Zachariah Mully]

On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 18:38 -0800, Jim Bolton wrote:

> I don't think that many companys make it 3-4 years with shitty service > and bad customer relations.... but then there is corbin who has a bad > rep and they still soldier on.... not sure why......seems that a > company should do it all and then the loyal following would be worth > it...

My point exactly. They manage to produce good products, but I don't think they ever capitalized on their market position. Now it's being eroded by a host of one-offs who have figured out that good service is almost as worth as much as good product. They've really begun to squander their goodwill as of late if I'm to believe all the reports of their issues. Z

[Don Pendergraft]

I have read this as well. I have also read that you can cut a short piece of PVC and vertically wedge it between your tire and fender and then have the freedom to crank away on those straps! I will have to try it the next time I have to load my bike in a pickup. Don+ _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dooden Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:22 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Got me a NEW used Truck Advise DO NOT RATCHET the front end too tight, the forks will compress and if left that way chances are you will be replacing fork seals, there is aproduct made to fit between the front tire and the fender mounting area that keeps the froks from compressing. (cut a chunk of 2x4 if you want) Recent Activity * 15 New http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZTZpbmc1BF9TA zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1ic nMEc3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Members * 6 New http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzFqbmg5BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdnBob3Q Ec3RpbWUDMTE5NjMzODkyOQ--> Photos Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_KLR650;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMWNpcWhiBF9TAzk3MzU5N zE0BGdycElkAzQ4ODM4NQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyNjIEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZ QMxMTk2MzM4OTI5> Your Group Y! Sports for TV Access http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12ji8n17m/M=493064.10729671.11699924.9977693/D= groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4767085/R=0/SIG=127pn01k0/*h ttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49021/*http://digitalhome.yahoo.com/sports> it for free Get Fantasy Sports stats on your TV. Yahoo! News Fashion http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jfmcr9j/M=493064.10729659.12153716.8674578/D= groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=3848621/R=0/SIG=12u6o6g3h/*h ttp://news.yahoo.com/i/1597;_ylt=A9FJqa5Gxa5E2jgAYQKVEhkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA2MnU4c zRtBHNlYwNzbg--> News What's the word on fashion and style? HDTV Support The http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12joenaev/M=493064.10972170.11554072.8674578/D= groups/S=1705126262:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1196346129/A=4706132/R=0/SIG=11f8fj6tf/*h ttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/samsunghd/> official Samsung Y! Group for HDTVs and devices. . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=488385/grpspId=1705126262/msgId= 180151/stime=1196338929/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848621/nc3=4706132> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> But it gets better. Someone (you know who you are) orders $300 of > goods and then calls the credit card company and cancels the > charge...leaving DS out $300 because this person claims they never > received it despite DS phone records?? AND then never returning the > merchandise? It's wrong and you give other riders a bad image not to > mention put undue stress on a small company. This individual should > be charged with theft. It's wrong.

I'm not this particular person, but I ordered $300 worth of camping gear from a small vendor (similar to Dual Star) who shipped it to me via UPS. Finally the UPS tracking site said it'd been delivered, and I ran home and... nothing there. Somebody stole it, but it certainly wasn't me. Indeed, there's no proof that the driver himself did not steal it -- there was no signature collected as proof of delivery despite the vendor's request for proof of delivery. The vendor sighed, shipped me another set of gear to the office rather than to my home address, and filed a claim with UPS. UPS paid him off on the claim after not being able to find the package within their own system. But if the vendor had refused to ship me another set of gear, you're damned right I would have called the credit card company and cancelled the charge. I paid for camping gear, not a tracking number! And that, my friend, is... the rest of the story.

[Stephen Grisanti]

One of the hazards you encounter with shipping. I was a rep in bike biz for years with samples arriving at my house weekly. Amazingly, there was only one theft and later while walking the dog I happened to find the discarded box in the neighborhood with many of the items still in it. Still a pain. Stephen --- "E.L. Green" wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" > > wrote: > > But it gets better. Someone (you know who you > are) orders $300 of > > goods and then calls the credit card company and > cancels the > > charge...leaving DS out $300 because this person > claims they never > > received it despite DS phone records?? AND then > never returning the > > merchandise? It's wrong and you give other riders > a bad image not to > > mention put undue stress on a small company. This > individual should > > be charged with theft. It's wrong. > > I'm not this particular person, but I ordered $300 > worth of camping > gear from a small vendor (similar to Dual Star) who > shipped it to me > via UPS. Finally the UPS tracking site said it'd > been delivered, and > I ran home and... nothing there. > > Somebody stole it, but it certainly wasn't me. > Indeed, there's no > proof that the driver himself did not steal it -- > there was no > signature collected as proof of delivery despite the > vendor's request > for proof of delivery. The vendor sighed, shipped me > another set of > gear to the office rather than to my home address, > and filed a claim > with UPS. UPS paid him off on the claim after not > being able to find > the package within their own system. But if the > vendor had refused to > ship me another set of gear, you're damned right I > would have called > the credit card company and cancelled the charge. I > paid for camping > gear, not a tracking number! > > And that, my friend, is... the rest of the story. > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

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