securely mounting a third leg to use sidestand to break beads?

[clint lee jin yew]

hi all, my a2's stock rear shock is starting to soften up ( all the riding with side bags and passenger and bad roads) so now comes the question: can i do a full service ( change its oil, recharge the gas ) and have the same or better performance? or just get an ohlins shock and worry on how to pay my credit card company? i won't consider any other brand because its hard to find them in malaysia. and most are not fully rebuildable all suggestions welcome. ccto my email too ok wcf1250@... thanks clint

[rsanders30117]

The web site below covers the procedure for rebuilding a KLR650 OEM shock. I've not tried it yet but the instructions seem complete & logical. http://calgarydualsport.tripod.com/klr650shock/procedure.html --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "clint lee jin yew" wrote:

> hi all, my a2's stock rear shock is starting to soften up ( all the > riding with side bags and passenger and bad roads) > > so now comes the question: > > can i do a full service ( change its oil, recharge the gas ) and

have

> the same or better performance? > > > or > > just get an ohlins shock and worry on how to pay my credit card

company?

> > > i won't consider any other brand because its hard to find them in > malaysia. and most are not fully rebuildable > > all suggestions welcome. ccto my email too ok > wcf1250@y... > > thanks > > clint

[Robin Van Eyk]

Does the rear shock on a KLR650 need a little air pressure in it? Or is it self contained with liquid only? I hate asking stupid questions, but if it helps, it's worth it. Thanks, Robin

[Norm Keller]

>Does the rear shock on a KLR650 need a little >air pressure in it? Or is it self contained with >liquid only? I hate asking stupid questions, but >if it helps, it's worth it. >Thanks, >Robin

Robin, you need to be careful about asking stupid questions on this list. Asking stupid questions is the sole prerogative of some of us with more list seniority. (VBG) The rear shock as a Schrader valve but the valve us used by the manufacturer to install Nitrogen gas. You are best advised to avoid check ing pressure or any other operation which will vent Nitrogen from the shock because it will be a royal PIA to have re-pressurized. Nitrogen is used because it transfers heat better and bubbles leave the oil faster than does air. HIH Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[KL650B2]

On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Norm Keller wrote:

> Nitrogen is used because it transfers heat better and bubbles leave > the oil faster than does air.

Here's a question: What about charging it with argon? Mark

[Norm Keller]

>Here's a question: What about charging it >with argon? >Mark

I don't know. Is Argon a crime? Reminds me of the skit set in a small town court room. The judge asks the police officer, "So what's this young man charged with, Clem?" Officer: "He's charged with arson, your honour!" Judge: "Arson! There's been altogether too much of that lately. Son, you marry that girl!" In case you think I'm being sarcastic, you should know that the question is about the sum total of my knowledge in the matter. Argon is an inert gas but the concern is not a chemical interaction between the shock oil and the charging gas. I have seen demonstrations of the relative rates of bubble escapement from oil which compared Nitrogen and air bubbles. The difference is quite graphic! Nitrogen bubbles leave the oil much more rapidly than do air bubbles which serves to reduce the aeration of the oil. Since gas bubbles (air, Nitrogen, Argon, etc.) are lighter and less viscous than shock oil, any gas bubbles present in the shock oil will serve to make the oil less viscous. A reduction in shock oil viscosity will allow the oil to pass metering orifices and valves more rapidly than intended. For this reason, aeration of the shock oil is a bad thing. Hopefully someone who is either more conversant or less lazy..... (Yes, I could look it up but it's been a long day. Regardless, I make it a principle to stop at a point where I cannot respond off the top of my head. At the point where I need to do research, this activity becomes work rather than a simple sharing process.) ....will respond with more of an engineering approach to the effects of oil aeration by various gasses. I have always been interested by the phenomenon of gas bubble escapement from oil because air (78% Nitrogen) has so much lower escapement rate than pure Nitrogen. It is hard to believe that Carbon-Dioxide will influence the phenomenon appreciably because it is present in such low concentrations in the atmosphere. Oxygen sits not far from Nitrogen on the Periodic Table so one would tend to believe that the density of air will not be that much greater than Nitrogen. Interesting phenomenon but my understanding is almost purely empirical. Some high-end shocks use a diaphragm to isolate the Nitrogen used to pressurize the shock absorber from the oil. Hoping for a better explanation.....Jeff, Krokko, Blake, Fast Eddie....???? Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Blake Sobiloff]

On 10/2/06, Norm Keller wrote:

> Hoping for a better explanation.....Jeff, Krokko, Blake, Fast Eddie....????

My swag would be that oxygen is highly reactive (or, more correctly, facilitates faster reactions), while nitrogen is mostly inert, so I'd look towards the oxygen binding (or facilitating binding) with the shock fluid--or something along those lines. Of course, I got a "C" in chemistry in college, so I'm probably way off base. Oh, and I skipped argon and went straight for hydrogen--it made my bike lighter and after a few miles of riding my shock is full of partially-hydrogenated oil, making it smooth as butter. Now, if only I could figure out why my stock exhaust shouts "Parkay!" every now and then instead of tweeting... -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> San Jose, CA (USA) -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[Jeff Saline]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:45:03 -0700 "Norm Keller" writes: SNIP

> For this reason, aeration of the shock oil is a bad thing. Hopefully > someone who is either more conversant or less lazy..... > > (Yes, I could look it up but it's been a long day. Regardless, I > make it a principle to stop at a point where I cannot respond off > the top of my head. At the point where I need to do research, this > activity becomes work rather than a simple sharing process.) > > ....will respond with more of an engineering approach to the effects > of oil aeration by various gasses.

SNIP

> Hoping for a better explanation.....Jeff, Krokko, Blake, Fast > Eddie....???? > > Norm

<><><><><><> <><><><><><> Norm, Last thing before bed and I like your principle to stop when you can't respond off the top of your head. I decided to see if I had a reference handy and didn't in the house. So now the stakes are too high for me. : ) I'm heading out Wednesday on a trip (Jeep) west for about 12 days so I know I won't be trying to find an answer but will hopefully not miss a correct reply. My judgement says folks should stay with what the manufacture uses and not worry about it. Oh, your bubble analysis reminded me of some training I had about 17 years ago concerning nitrogen bubbles in the blood and pressure adjustments. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> > >Here's a question: What about charging it >with argon? > > >Mark > > I don't know. Is Argon a crime? > > Reminds me of the skit set in a small town court room. > The judge asks the police officer, "So what's this young man

charged with, Clem?"

> > Officer: "He's charged with arson, your honour!" > > Judge: "Arson! There's been altogether too much of that lately.

Son, you marry that girl!"

> > In case you think I'm being sarcastic, you should know that the

question is about the sum total of my knowledge in the matter.

> > Argon is an inert gas but the concern is not a chemical interaction

between the shock oil and the charging gas. I have seen demonstrations of the relative rates of bubble escapement from oil which compared Nitrogen and air bubbles. The difference is quite graphic! Nitrogen bubbles leave the oil much more rapidly than do air bubbles which serves to reduce the aeration of the oil.

> > Since gas bubbles (air, Nitrogen, Argon, etc.) are lighter and less

viscous than shock oil, any gas bubbles present in the shock oil will serve to make the oil less viscous. A reduction in shock oil viscosity will allow the oil to pass metering orifices and valves more rapidly than intended.

> > For this reason, aeration of the shock oil is a bad thing.

Hopefully someone who is either more conversant or less lazy.....

> > (Yes, I could look it up but it's been a long day. Regardless, I

make it a principle to stop at a point where I cannot respond off the top of my head. At the point where I need to do research, this activity becomes work rather than a simple sharing process.)

> > ....will respond with more of an engineering approach to the

effects of oil aeration by various gasses.

> > I have always been interested by the phenomenon of gas bubble

escapement from oil because air (78% Nitrogen) has so much lower escapement rate than pure Nitrogen. It is hard to believe that Carbon-Dioxide will influence the phenomenon appreciably because it is present in such low concentrations in the atmosphere. Oxygen sits not far from Nitrogen on the Periodic Table so one would tend to believe that the density of air will not be that much greater than Nitrogen.

> > Interesting phenomenon but my understanding is almost purely

empirical.

> > Some high-end shocks use a diaphragm to isolate the Nitrogen used

to pressurize the shock absorber from the oil.

> > Hoping for a better explanation.....Jeff, Krokko, Blake, Fast

Eddie....????

> > Norm >

Hi Norm, Do you have to have a Canadian accent to understand the joke? Maybe you could draw me a picture. I didn't make the list of scientific-minds, but that won't keep me from offering a sub-tangential understanding.... grin. I to am speaking at the limits of my understandings, but it does not keep me from engaging in the thought process, all of which is observed through the lens of a high school chemistry student circa 1970. I would think the use of Nitrogen or Oxygen is directly related to their position in the Periodic Table (as stated by Norm). that is: The structural size of a Nitrogen or Oxygen molecule in relationship to the size of the petroleum molecule it is touching. When the two are interfaced, i.e. Nitrogen over oil, or oxygen over oil, the molecules are able to stay better separated, or separated longer due to the difference in size of the molecule of Nitrogen vs. Oxygen. Which is largely what Norm said/speculated. Even though you suggest that O and N they are 'not far apart on the P. Table', neither are lead and gold, and there is slight difference there also in value and usefulness... both can be used for fish weights, but one makes a better conductor for things like electrical connectors on the space shuttle. Perhaps the difference is 'just enough' to make a significant difference, say, like adding baking soda vs. baking powder to biscuits. Look the same, feel the same to me, but the results are different when added to flour. I doubt that the first experimenters used a Periodic table, but said, "That didn't work, let us try this a, b, c,..." until they said, "Looks like Nitrogen worked pretty good, hmmm, much better than Oxygen." And nitrogen is (has to be cheaper, more readily available-- although Argon is more plentiful now than 20 years ago) to produce that Argon, and you don't have to marry the girl. revmaaatin.

[Norm Keller]

revmaaatin posted:

>Do you have to have a Canadian accent to >understand the joke?

We don't have accents, you do. Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]