healthy valves

[Jeff Layton]

Letter text says it all. Do any of you want to check your gage & tell me the readings so I can get a bigger sampling? Jeff Layton A15 in Austin, TX P.S. This guy is the CEO of Kawasaki Motors Corp USA. Mr. Scott Kiyama Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A. 9950 Jeronimo Road Irvine, CA 92618 Dear Mr. Kiyama: Please forgive me for seeking your direct assistance with my problem. I have sought resolution both through my dealer as well as through the Customer Service line, but after more than 5 months with no progress, I (and they) need additional help in achieving resolution. I own a 2001 Kawasaki KLR650 Dual Sport Motorcycle (which I enjoy very much). It has always run hot, much warmer than the KLR650's my friends own. Using the Factory Service Manual, I began to diagnose the problem. As you may be aware, the KLR650 Factory Service Manual is comprised of the KLR600 Factory Service Manual (PN 99924-1050-01) along with the KLR 650 Supplement (PN 9992401080-61). After working through the diagnosis and finding no other problems, I began to suspect the gage itself. On Page 14-21 of the KLR600 Service Manual, there is a procedure titled Water Temperature Gage Check. Using that procedure, I found my gage to be out of specification. Since that discovery, made in December 2005, I have ordered four new gages through two different sources (gage PN 28011-1091), and every new gage has been out of spec as well. I have checked three other gages already in use on other KLR's & found one to be perfect, and two to be out of spec as well. This makes a total of 8 gages checked, with 7 being out of spec, for a 87.5% failure rate. (As a side note, using the gage that is in-spec on my bike resolves all abnormal temperature conditions, confirming it is indeed simply a gage problem.) I would like your help in getting a new gage that is in-spec. The first dealer I purchased a replacement gage from was a mail-order dealer. Due to the difficulty returning bad electrical parts mail-ordered, I chose a local dealer for remaining gages. The second dealer is simply ordering new gages & sending the bad ones back. Two calls to the Customer Service over the course of five months have not gotten closer to a solution either. I'm sure you would like to investigate the 87.5% failure rate supplier quality issue as well as the internal quality control procedures that let this many bad gages slip through to the service parts operation as well as to the production line. However, for the near-term, I would like your help in getting me a gage that meets specification. Thank you Jeff Layton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

On Wed, 24 May 2006 08:27:03 -0500 "Jeff Layton" writes:

> Letter text says it all. Do any of you want to check your gage & tell > me the readings so I can get a bigger sampling? > > Jeff Layton > A15 in Austin, TX > > P.S. This guy is the CEO of Kawasaki Motors Corp USA.

SNIP

> After working through the diagnosis and finding no other problems, I > began to suspect the gage itself. On Page 14-21 of the KLR600 > Service Manual, there is a procedure titled Water Temperature Gage > Check. Using that procedure, I found my gage to be out of > specification.

SNIP <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Jeff, Very nice well written letter. I hope you get some positive results with it. I took a break from my clean up getting ready for an Airhead Tech Day to check my gage. It only took about 10 minutes to remove the fairing, disconnect wires, test using two different meters and then put it all back together. I didn't see a color code explanation but I only looked in the manual for about 30 seconds. I figure BK/Y is Black with a Yellow tracer. W/Y is White with a Yellow tracer and BR is Brown. Here are the results. First meter: BK/Y meter W/Y 53.3 ohms BR meter W/Y 112.9 ohms Second meter: BK/Y meter W/Y 53.3 ohms BR meter W/Y 112.5 ohms So I guess that means I have a bad meter too. : ( Maybe if it bothers me enough on my trip starting next Tuesday I'll use my extended warranty to let the dealer get me a new meter. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[Jeff Layton]

Thanks for checking, Jeff. I'll add this to the letter. Did you check two temperature gauges, or one gauge with two OhmMeters? thanks Note that you won't find any good meters in stock in the States yet - let me get this fixed first! Jeff Layton

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Saline" > > I didn't see a color code explanation but I only looked in the manual for > about 30 seconds. I figure BK/Y is Black with a Yellow tracer. W/Y is > White with a Yellow tracer and BR is Brown. > > Here are the results. > > First meter: > BK/Y meter W/Y 53.3 ohms > BR meter W/Y 112.9 ohms > > Second meter: > BK/Y meter W/Y 53.3 ohms > BR meter W/Y 112.5 ohms > > So I guess that means I have a bad meter too. : ( Maybe if it bothers > me enough on my trip starting next Tuesday I'll use my extended warranty > to let the dealer get me a new meter.

[Tony JONES]

> After working through the diagnosis and finding no other problems, > I began to suspect the gage itself. On Page 14-21 of the KLR600 > Service Manual, there is a procedure titled Water Temperature Gage > Check. Using that procedure, I found my gage to be out of > specification.

Or the manual is incorrect and you have one unit that is reading underspec! It wouldn't be a first for the manual to be incorrect. You said "It has always run hot, much warmer than the KLR650's my friends own" ---followed by--- "I have checked three other gages already in use on other KLR's & found one to be perfect". Do the ones your friends own == the three you tested? In which case two are running cooler than yours yet still have an "out of spec" reading, no? Tony

[Jeff Saline]

On Wed, 24 May 2006 11:32:45 -0500 "Jeff Layton" writes:

> Thanks for checking, Jeff. I'll add this to the letter. Did you check > two > temperature gauges, or one gauge with two OhmMeters? > > thanks > > Note that you won't find any good meters in stock in the States yet > - let me > get this fixed first! > > Jeff Layton

<><><><><> <><><><><> Jeff, I checked one gage (from a 2003 KLR650) with two meters. Steve Rankin is expected here tomorrow afternoon late. If I remember we'll check his gage too. He's got a 96 model. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[Harry Seifert]

Jeff, An excellent letter. Would you share the response (if any) with the list. I am taking a SCADA class next week with a local electronics wizard and I'm going to ask him if adding a resistor in series on the proper lead will correct the problem. Keep us in the loop. Buddy Jeff Layton wrote: Letter text says it all. Do any of you want to check your gage & tell me the readings so I can get a bigger sampling? Jeff Layton A15 in Austin, TX P.S. This guy is the CEO of Kawasaki Motors Corp USA. Mr. Scott Kiyama Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A. 9950 Jeronimo Road Irvine, CA 92618 Dear Mr. Kiyama: Please forgive me for seeking your direct assistance with my problem. I have sought resolution both through my dealer as well as through the Customer Service line, but after more than 5 months with no progress, I (and they) need additional help in achieving resolution. I own a 2001 Kawasaki KLR650 Dual Sport Motorcycle (which I enjoy very much). It has always run hot, much warmer than the KLR650's my friends own. Using the Factory Service Manual, I began to diagnose the problem. As you may be aware, the KLR650 Factory Service Manual is comprised of the KLR600 Factory Service Manual (PN 99924-1050-01) along with the KLR 650 Supplement (PN 9992401080-61). After working through the diagnosis and finding no other problems, I began to suspect the gage itself. On Page 14-21 of the KLR600 Service Manual, there is a procedure titled Water Temperature Gage Check. Using that procedure, I found my gage to be out of specification. Since that discovery, made in December 2005, I have ordered four new gages through two different sources (gage PN 28011-1091), and every new gage has been out of spec as well. I have checked three other gages already in use on other KLR's & found one to be perfect, and two to be out of spec as well. This makes a total of 8 gages checked, with 7 being out of spec, for a 87.5% failure rate. (As a side note, using the gage that is in-spec on my bike resolves all abnormal temperature conditions, confirming it is indeed simply a gage problem.) I would like your help in getting a new gage that is in-spec. The first dealer I purchased a replacement gage from was a mail-order dealer. Due to the difficulty returning bad electrical parts mail-ordered, I chose a local dealer for remaining gages. The second dealer is simply ordering new gages & sending the bad ones back. Two calls to the Customer Service over the course of five months have not gotten closer to a solution either. I'm sure you would like to investigate the 87.5% failure rate supplier quality issue as well as the internal quality control procedures that let this many bad gages slip through to the service parts operation as well as to the production line. However, for the near-term, I would like your help in getting me a gage that meets specification. Thank you Jeff Layton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Layton]

Actually Harry, I tried that. I put a 33 ohm resistor in series with one of the leads. I don't remember which one, but I had to choose the one that would allow the resistance measured on one pair to go up without affecting the resistance of the other pair. Since there's no schematic of the gage (gauge!) innards, it's only a SWAG to see if it makes a difference. It didn't. I imagine it could if you could open up the gage innards & put it in the right place. Jeff Layton A15 Austin, TX

----- Original Message ----- From: HARRY SEIFERT To: Jeff Layton ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Cc: Eric Sumpter Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] The Letter to Kawasaki Jeff, An excellent letter. Would you share the response (if any) with the list. I am taking a SCADA class next week with a local electronics wizard and I'm going to ask him if adding a resistor in series on the proper lead will correct the problem. Keep us in the loop. Buddy Jeff Layton wrote: Letter text says it all. Do any of you want to check your gage & tell me the readings so I can get a bigger sampling? Jeff Layton A15 in Austin, TX P.S. This guy is the CEO of Kawasaki Motors Corp USA. Mr. Scott Kiyama Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A. 9950 Jeronimo Road Irvine, CA 92618 Dear Mr. Kiyama: Please forgive me for seeking your direct assistance with my problem. I have sought resolution both through my dealer as well as through the Customer Service line, but after more than 5 months with no progress, I (and they) need additional help in achieving resolution. I own a 2001 Kawasaki KLR650 Dual Sport Motorcycle (which I enjoy very much). It has always run hot, much warmer than the KLR650's my friends own. Using the Factory Service Manual, I began to diagnose the problem. As you may be aware, the KLR650 Factory Service Manual is comprised of the KLR600 Factory Service Manual (PN 99924-1050-01) along with the KLR 650 Supplement (PN 9992401080-61). After working through the diagnosis and finding no other problems, I began to suspect the gage itself. On Page 14-21 of the KLR600 Service Manual, there is a procedure titled Water Temperature Gage Check. Using that procedure, I found my gage to be out of specification. Since that discovery, made in December 2005, I have ordered four new gages through two different sources (gage PN 28011-1091), and every new gage has been out of spec as well. I have checked three other gages already in use on other KLR's & found one to be perfect, and two to be out of spec as well. This makes a total of 8 gages checked, with 7 being out of spec, for a 87.5% failure rate. (As a side note, using the gage that is in-spec on my bike resolves all abnormal temperature conditions, confirming it is indeed simply a gage problem.) I would like your help in getting a new gage that is in-spec. The first dealer I purchased a replacement gage from was a mail-order dealer. Due to the difficulty returning bad electrical parts mail-ordered, I chose a local dealer for remaining gages. The second dealer is simply ordering new gages & sending the bad ones back. Two calls to the Customer Service over the course of five months have not gotten closer to a solution either. I'm sure you would like to investigate the 87.5% failure rate supplier quality issue as well as the internal quality control procedures that let this many bad gages slip through to the service parts operation as well as to the production line. However, for the near-term, I would like your help in getting me a gage that meets specification. Thank you Jeff Layton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stuart Mumford]

> -----Original Message----- > From: "Jeff Layton" jeff@... > Date: Wed May 24, 2006 6:28am(PDT) > Subject: The Letter to Kawasaki > > Letter text says it all. Do any of you want to check your gage & > tell me the readings so I can get a bigger sampling? > > Jeff Layton > A15 in Austin, TX > > P.S. This guy is the CEO of Kawasaki Motors Corp USA. > > > Mr. Scott Kiyama >

If my fan works and my bike runs good, I could care less about the temperature guage. Seems about this time of year, like clockwork, someone will ask the list about the temperature guage. When the ambient temperature gets hotter, your bike's temperature guage will read higher. Does your fan not work? Is your bike puking coolant? Does your bike act/smell like it is running hot? If the answer to all these questions is "No", then who gives a crap what the guage says? You could always trade it in on a DR-650 or an XR and then there wouldn't be a molehill of a temperature guage to make a mountain out of. Thanks CA Stu

[Jeff Layton]

Stu: This started long ago because my gauge says the bike is overheating. This was in december, not suddenly started now (check the archives). It says it's overheating on 40 degree days and also on 90 degree days. Given that a mistake here means a new motor, I'd rather be safe than sorry. If you want to treat your equipment otherwise, that's your God-given right. More power to ya. For me, I'm *very* particular about everythng I put my money into being right, especially when being wrong means even more money.. That's my God-given right also. YMMV. Jeff Layton A15 Austin CA Stu wrote: If my fan works and my bike runs good, I could care less about the temperature guage. Seems about this time of year, like clockwork, someone will ask the list about the temperature guage. When the ambient temperature gets hotter, your bike's temperature guage will read higher. Does your fan not work? Is your bike puking coolant? Does your bike act/smell like it is running hot? If the answer to all these questions is "No", then who gives a crap what the guage says? You could always trade it in on a DR-650 or an XR and then there wouldn't be a molehill of a temperature guage to make a mountain out of. Thanks CA Stu

[Mike Peplinski]

Take it easy Jeff, we don't need to get God into this one just yet. The temp gauge does swing quite a bit on mine too. Even in cold weather if I'm idling or not going very fast it gets pretty hot but the fan kicks in. I think the critical point is that the fan kicks in. The first time I rode my bike the fan came on after I parked it. I'm not even certain that there is a fixed "normal" position. I'm not a "wrench" but unless the gauge is way high or the fan is not kicking in you aren't overheating. The gauge could be getting funky, or the sender. My experience is that an overheating engine runs irregular before damage is done. Now if you're cruising along at 85 mph and the gauge is climbing, you better think real hard about slowing down but otherwise. they're really pretty tolerant.

>From: "Jeff Layton" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: The Letter to Kawasaki >Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 10:14:15 -0500 > >Stu: > >This started long ago because my gauge says the bike is overheating. This >was in december, not suddenly started now (check the archives). It says >it's >overheating on 40 degree days and also on 90 degree days. Given that a >mistake here means a new motor, I'd rather be safe than sorry. If you want >to treat your equipment otherwise, that's your God-given right. More power >to ya. For me, I'm *very* particular about everythng I put my money into >being right, especially when being wrong means even more money.. That's my >God-given right also. > >YMMV. > >Jeff Layton >A15 Austin > > > CA Stu wrote: > >If my fan works and my bike runs good, I could care less about the >temperature guage. > >Seems about this time of year, like clockwork, someone will ask the list >about the temperature guage. When the ambient temperature gets hotter, your >bike's temperature guage will read higher. > >Does your fan not work? > >Is your bike puking coolant? > >Does your bike act/smell like it is running hot? > >If the answer to all these questions is "No", then who gives a crap what >the >guage says? > >You could always trade it in on a DR-650 or an XR and then there wouldn't >be >a molehill of a temperature guage to make a mountain out of. > >Thanks >CA Stu > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >