what star sign are you ? nklr

[d0ch011iday]

I've heard this alot lately. "Why are we so bent on going to war with Iraq and yet want to give diplomacy a chance with the North Koreans?" They are totally different scenarios. Iraq: The Iraqi government has shown a willingness to use chemical weapons on its own people and has a motive to share such weapons with enemies of the US and non-Muslem countries. It doesn't have WMDs that can seriously threaten a friendly nation. At worst he could lob a few slime tipped scuds at Israel, Turkey, or the Saudis, but it wouldn't cause much damage. We have the military forces in the region right now, to make such an overwhelming shock assualt, that the Iraqi army will collapse with very few casualties (for us AND them). Korea: With conventional artilery alone, NK could LEVEL Seoul. And all that firepower is prepositioned, preplotted, and on a hair trigger. If someone sneezes to loudly at one of the nuke sites, Hell will break loose along the DMZ. The Korean penisula will become a battlefield again. That means no more Huindyas, boom boxes, or the thousands of other products you take for granted at home. The predictions are for 100,000 DEAD in the first 24 hrs (this includes 75% of the 30,000 US soldiers there). By the time the war ends with either the NK Army overrunning the last resistance at the tip of SK, or they run out of bodies and ammo and we beat them back, over 1 MILLION people, military and civilian will have died. You can double that number if things go chemical/nuclear. There is no military option in Korea.

[Zachariah Mully]

On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 14:20, d0ch011iday wrote:

> There is no military option in Korea.

Lemme get this straight, we should only go to war with the little non-nuke country whom you've illustrated represents little or no threat to us?? But we should pussyfoot around a country that is actually a "threat" to us and one that we could have a REAL war with?? I would think the supporters of the "War on Iraqi" would be rabid to change that to "War on North Korea"... Unless you really don't want a war?! This is so totally grade-school. Z

[James G]

--- Zachariah Mully wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 14:20, d0ch011iday wrote: > > There is no military option in Korea. > > Unless you really don't > want a war?!

No I don't want to go to war. War sucks. War means being away from your family. War means being dirty, cold or hot, and miserable for months at a time. War means watching your friends die. Been there, done that. Have no desire to do it again. But sometimes it has to be done. There are evil people in this world that you can't negotiate with, can't reason with, who only understand one thing. Force and violence. That is something all these anti-war people don't understand. Sanctions don't work. Inspections don't work. At BEST all you do is contain the problem, but it doesn't go away just because you say nice words. If we destroy Saddam now, there is a chance to rebuild Iraq into a prosperous, democratic society that may stablilize the entire Islamic world. If we don't. If we fail to meet this challenge, then not only will the Iraqi people suffer for decades more, we may have sown the seeds of our own destruction with the hate that is slowly simmering in that part of the world. Only history will judge whether the decisions of the President are right or wrong. Do you really think that in 10 years, when we know everything about what is going on, that he or any of his advisors would risk being revealed as liars? Assides from the personal honor at state, that would be political suicide for the entire Republican party. So the claims that Bush is lying or holding back information is the desperate, flimsy grasping for motive by people without all the answers. I don't have all the information either, and have my own doubts and questions about what is going on. But I DO know enough to trust that President Bush will steer the right course and bring this nation and the world thru this crisis. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Zachariah Mully wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 14:20, d0ch011iday wrote: > > There is no military option in Korea. > > Lemme get this straight, we should only go to war with the little > non-nuke country whom you've illustrated represents little or no

threat

> to us?? But we should pussyfoot around a country that is actually a > "threat" to us and one that we could have a REAL war with?? I would > think the supporters of the "War on Iraqi" would be rabid to change

that

> to "War on North Korea"... Unless you really don't want a war?! > > This is so totally grade-school. > > Z DC

Until about six weeks ago several senior generals were on record in opposition to an Iraq war. We haven't heard from them lately. I wonder why.

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, James G wrote:

> --- Zachariah Mully wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 14:20, d0ch011iday wrote: > > > There is no military option in Korea. > > > > Unless you really don't > > want a war?! > > No I don't want to go to war. War sucks. War means > being away from your family. War means being dirty, > cold or hot, and miserable for months at a time. War > means watching your friends die. > Been there, done that. Have no desire to do it again. > > But sometimes it has to be done. There are evil > people in this world that you can't negotiate with, > can't reason with, who only understand one thing. > Force and violence. > That is something all these anti-war people don't > understand. Sanctions don't work. Inspections don't > work. At BEST all you do is contain the problem, but > it doesn't go away just because you say nice words. > > If we destroy Saddam now, there is a chance to rebuild > Iraq into a prosperous, democratic society that may > stablilize the entire Islamic world. > > If we don't. If we fail to meet this challenge, then > not only will the Iraqi people suffer for decades > more, we may have sown the seeds of our own > destruction with the hate that is slowly simmering in > that part of the world. > > Only history will judge whether the decisions of the > President are right or wrong. Do you really think that > in 10 years, when we know everything about what is > going on, that he or any of his advisors would risk > being revealed as liars? Assides from the personal > honor at state, that would be political suicide for > the entire Republican party. So the claims that Bush > is lying or holding back information is the desperate, > flimsy grasping for motive by people without all the > answers. > I don't have all the information either, and have my > own doubts and questions about what is going on. But I > DO know enough to trust that President Bush will steer > the right course and bring this nation and the world > thru this crisis. >

One reason I lack confidence in Bush is that he is so wound up over Iraq that he is forgetting that he might be able to defuse most of the trouble coming from this part of the world just by paying some attention to a resolution of Palestine. That won't satisfy the most rabid fanatics, but it will defuse their support in a great deal of the Islam world. Makes me think he's more interested in his reelection than anything else. Where he should be offering statesmanship he gives us self-serving jingoism instead.

[Zachariah Mully]

On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 15:22, James G wrote:

> If we destroy Saddam now, there is a chance to rebuild > Iraq into a prosperous, democratic society that may > stablilize the entire Islamic world.

Sounds like Central America during the 70's and 80's to me. And that worked out really, really well for all the Central American peoples.

> If we don't. If we fail to meet this challenge, then > not only will the Iraqi people suffer for decades > more, we may have sown the seeds of our own > destruction with the hate that is slowly simmering in > that part of the world.

Errr. Hate has been simmering in the cradle of civilization since, oh well, the start of civilization. A great book about this is "Skinny legs and all" by Tom Robbins. Further US presence in the Middle East is *not* a stabilizing influence.

> own doubts and questions about what is going on. But I > DO know enough to trust that President Bush will steer > the right course and bring this nation and the world > thru this crisis.

There is no crisis. Notice how no one but the Brits will agree with us that there is one? Shit, the only reason the Israelis side with us is so they can make sure we support their efforts to forceably and brutually prevent a Palestinian state. Z DC

[Harry Seifert]

Harry Seifert bseifert71@... Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

> [Original Message] > From: James G > To: Zachariah Mully > Cc: KLR List DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Date: 1/24/03 12:22:21 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: NKLR Strategy: Iraq vs. N. Korea NKLR > > --- Zachariah Mully wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 14:20, d0ch011iday wrote: > > > There is no military option in Korea. > > > > Unless you really don't > > want a war?! > > No I don't want to go to war. War sucks. War means > being away from your family. War means being dirty, > cold or hot, and miserable for months at a time. War > means watching your friends die. > Been there, done that. Have no desire to do it again. > > But sometimes it has to be done.

It seems that the situation is somewhat similar to any sort of antibiotic therapy; you've got all those millions of Staph A. microbes just cruising around in your blood stream, minding their own business, which just happens to be if not making you sick, just outright killing you. We decide to employ an antibiotic that happens to kill the microbes and restore health. Too simple, perhaps. Way too jingoistic. But damn it, there are bad people, who do bad things. They are the cancer of society...if you want to die of the cancer, just let it go...if you want a chance to survive, go after it with every weapon in your arsenal. As for the rest of the Middle Eastern bullshit, when will we all wise up and realize that we all worship the same God, Yaweh, Allah, and come from the same father, Abraham, Ibrahim. There is a deep set moral cancer infecting the leaders of Christianity, Islam and Judaism if they all can't sit back, look at what is and get their acts together as the brothers that the Bible,Qu ran and Talmud say we are. And no, I do not espouse any religious faith. As for the North Koreans, yeah they've got Seoul zeroed in and less than 1 minute to annihilation from when the first gun fires, we do have methods of pre-empting these little shits, but it will get in the way of us cozying up to the Chinese...who will probably own the world in 20 years or so. Enough of this political crap......SoCal is bright, sunny and warm, as you will probably see this Sunday. FORGET THE FRIGGIN" POLITICS AND LET'S RIDE. I don't care what happens, just let me have enough gas to ride when and where I want to go...and when the gas runs out, I'll redo my moonshinin' still and make bike fuel.....

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert" wrote:

> Enough of this political crap......SoCal is bright, sunny and warm,

as you

> will probably see this Sunday. FORGET THE FRIGGIN" POLITICS AND

LET'S

> RIDE. I don't care what happens, just let me have enough gas to

ride when

> and where I want to go...and when the gas runs out, I'll redo my > moonshinin' still and make bike fuel.....

That's easy for you to say. Jud in MN. 6 above this morning, and my septic is still frozen.

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 9:40 PM +0000 1/24/2003, Judson D. Jones wrote:

>--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert" >wrote: FORGET THE FRIGGIN" POLITICS AND >LET'S >> RIDE. >> > > >That's easy for you to say. >Jud in MN. 6 above this morning,

Ya, it's easy... I rode in to work yesterday (4F in the AM) & today (9F this morning). I get off on knowing that I'm harder than 99.999% of those pansies on cruisers.

>and my septic is still frozen.

Drink more booze & eat more salt. Mark B2 A2 A3

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Tengai Mark Van Horn

> Drink more booze & eat more salt.

Don't forget grease (the essentials for the maintenance of weight and blood pressure)