socal listers - nklr

[guymanbro@excite.com]

I'm looking at the Garmin comparison page and the eTrex Legend seems to have everything the 12Map and III+ have. And then some. Anybody know why the Legend is cheaper? It has 148 more tracklog points, more pixels, it's lighter by almost 4 oz., WAAS capable (whatever that is), celestial info page, 6.56MB more memory, 20 more waypoints per route... The only drawbacks I see are it only has a single level backlit display as opposed to 2 level (how much of a difference is that?), and the screen is a tad smaller and can't be rotated (this isn't important to me, since I haven't been spoiled by one that can yet), and it gets half the battery life (would hardwire it anyway). Anyone wanna tell me why the 12Map and III+ are worth $100 more? I need a unit that will best handle a route that covers 5000 miles in 9 days with minimal fussing if that helps narrow down the list. dat brooklyn bum (working on a Christmas list)

[Brad J. Morris]

After spending a week looking at all the Garmins, I came to the same conclusion you did. I can't see any advantage to buying a III+ (better antenna?). Hearing people talk about the III+ was what got me interested in GPS the first place and I was planning on buying one. But like you, I found the eTrex (Vista in my case) to be *much* more bang for the same $$$. I actually bought the Vista and played with it for a couple of hours before deciding that, though it was really cool (altimeter/compass/point & go), I really wanted the Garmin GPS V (auto routing/free detailed cities). So I took the Vista back and ordered the GPS V from cycoactive.com (so much for my budget). You might as well add $120 to the cost of the Legend, because you'll definately need to get a detailed cities CD. If you have any specific questions about the Legend let me know (I'm sure it works a lot like the Vista). One thing, they definately do not work indoors. It did work fine in my car though. Take care, Brad J. Morris A16 :( Illinois

> I'm looking at the Garmin comparison page and the eTrex Legend seems > to have everything the 12Map and III+ have. And then some. Anybody > know why the Legend is cheaper? It has 148 more tracklog points, more > pixels, it's lighter by almost 4 oz., WAAS capable (whatever that > is), celestial info page, 6.56MB more memory, 20 more waypoints per > route... > > The only drawbacks I see are it only has a single level backlit > display as opposed to 2 level (how much of a difference is that?), > and the screen is a tad smaller and can't be rotated (this isn't > important to me, since I haven't been spoiled by one that can yet), > and it gets half the battery life (would hardwire it anyway). > > Anyone wanna tell me why the 12Map and III+ are worth $100 more? > > I need a unit that will best handle a route that covers 5000 miles in > 9 days with minimal fussing if that helps narrow down the list. > > dat brooklyn bum (working on a Christmas list)

[Steve Anderson]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., guymanbro@e... wrote:

> I'm looking at the Garmin comparison page and the eTrex Legend seems > to have everything the 12Map and III+ have. And then some. Anybody > know why the Legend is cheaper? It has 148 more tracklog points, more > pixels, it's lighter by almost 4 oz., WAAS capable (whatever that > is), celestial info page, 6.56MB more memory, 20 more waypoints per > route... > > The only drawbacks I see are it only has a single level backlit > display as opposed to 2 level (how much of a difference is that?), > and the screen is a tad smaller and can't be rotated (this isn't > important to me, since I haven't been spoiled by one that can yet), > and it gets half the battery life (would hardwire it anyway). > > Anyone wanna tell me why the 12Map and III+ are worth $100 more?

The Etrex Legend, Vista, and Venture are very ill suited for any fixed mount vehicle application IMO. The screens are much harder to read than something like the III+/12map due to poorer contrast and smaller display. The backlight being nonadjustable is way too bright at night. They have very slow processors that give very poor map updates. If they aren t getting good signal reception, they are even slower. They do not have internal power conditioning / regulators allowing direct wiring to the vehicles electrical. The buttons are much more difficult to use than the III+/12map, especially with gloves and aren t lit at night making dark nighttime use not only blinding, but very difficult in trying to figure out which button to press. Even though you are looking to use this on a MC, I still should point out that they work very poorly inside of a car. These units are designed for hiking and hunting, not for vehicles and it shows. I haven t had any experience with the V , but I would be just a little concerned about the display contrast. It may still be a good unit if you want auto-routing though. For me, the auto-routing is more a novelty, and so I opted for the 176. Another unit that shouldn t be overlooked if 8MB is adequate map memory would be the Map76. This a great value that looks like a super unit for MC s, but seems to be missed in most folks considerations. Personally, I need more than 8MB though. I would recommend anyone wanting to use a unit on their bike to stay away from the units that are principally designed for hiking; they are cheap, but they just are nowhere near as good as the units designed for vehicles. More and more of the boating units (like the Map76 and the 176) are now getting highway functionality and are exceptionally rugged. Remember, the III+/12Map were originally designed for boating. I strongly recommend either looking at these units or the units designed for automotive, i.e. eMap, V , or the StreetPilot III. In other words, the units that work best on a MC will be found on: http://garmin.com/mobile/ http://garmin.com/marine/ Just make certain that boating units that support 8MB or more of map memory have MetroGuide support; many still don t. The III+ and 12map are still great units mostly hindered only by their lack of map memory. It's not that you can't use the eTrex series on a MC, they just simply aren't designed for this type of use and it shows compared to units that are... Steve A. in AZ BTW, my experience running GPS s on MC s for extended periods is limited to: 45 12XL 12Map 12CX II+ III StreetPilot (original) III+ eMap Vista 176 I still need to borrow someone s V , StreetPilot III, Map76, 176C, 182/182C ;-]

[Joe]

Yo Brooklyn Bum.... Despite what I've read in the responding posts...I love the Etrex Legend on my A15!!! I have a simple mount and because this is my first GPS, the screen size and resolution fits me just fine. It also works flawlessly in my car and truck, despite what other listers report. Once you get used to the button location, hitting them with gloves on, even at night is a breeze. I do have the Roads and Recreation CD for more detailed maps, but even without the CD, it does an adequate job of detail. Let me know if you have any other questions. Joe in Kansas

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., guymanbro@e... wrote: > I'm looking at the Garmin comparison page and the eTrex Legend seems > to have everything the 12Map and III+ have. And then some. Anybody > know why the Legend is cheaper? It has 148 more tracklog points, more > pixels, it's lighter by almost 4 oz., WAAS capable (whatever that > is), celestial info page, 6.56MB more memory, 20 more waypoints per > route... > > The only drawbacks I see are it only has a single level backlit > display as opposed to 2 level (how much of a difference is that?), > and the screen is a tad smaller and can't be rotated (this isn't > important to me, since I haven't been spoiled by one that can yet), > and it gets half the battery life (would hardwire it anyway). > > Anyone wanna tell me why the 12Map and III+ are worth $100 more? > > I need a unit that will best handle a route that covers 5000 miles in > 9 days with minimal fussing if that helps narrow down the list. > > dat brooklyn bum (working on a Christmas list)

[Steve Anderson]

Joe, I have a question: Have you used the other units he's speaking of? If not, then how can you compare units like he is asking? I didn't say you couldn't use the Legend on an MC, just that the other units are much better and the reasons why... For doing a day ride, I would grab a 12map or III+ any time over the Legend for all the reasons I mentioned. What about you? Why do you prefer the Legend over those unit? This would be presuming you have used the III+/12Map on a MC of course. BTW, there are listgroups out there that have discussed these differences over and over; these are not just my opinions. A relative comparison is a different thing than a simple unit review (rave)... So you can actually use that little click stick thingy on the Legend while riding? ;-] Steve A. in AZ

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Joe" wrote: > Yo Brooklyn Bum.... > > Despite what I've read in the responding posts...I love the Etrex > Legend on my A15!!! I have a simple mount and because this is my > first GPS, the screen size and resolution fits me just fine. > > It also works flawlessly in my car and truck, despite what other > listers report. > > Once you get used to the button location, hitting them with gloves > on, even at night is a breeze. > > I do have the Roads and Recreation CD for more detailed maps, but > even without the CD, it does an adequate job of detail. > > Let me know if you have any other questions. > > Joe > in Kansas > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., guymanbro@e... wrote: > > I'm looking at the Garmin comparison page and the eTrex Legend > seems > > to have everything the 12Map and III+ have. And then some. Anybody > > know why the Legend is cheaper? It has 148 more tracklog points, > more > > pixels, it's lighter by almost 4 oz., WAAS capable (whatever that > > is), celestial info page, 6.56MB more memory, 20 more waypoints per > > route... > > > > The only drawbacks I see are it only has a single level backlit > > display as opposed to 2 level (how much of a difference is that?), > > and the screen is a tad smaller and can't be rotated (this isn't > > important to me, since I haven't been spoiled by one that can yet), > > and it gets half the battery life (would hardwire it anyway). > > > > Anyone wanna tell me why the 12Map and III+ are worth $100 more? > > > > I need a unit that will best handle a route that covers 5000 miles > in > > 9 days with minimal fussing if that helps narrow down the list. > > > > dat brooklyn bum (working on a Christmas list)

[Brad J. Morris]

Steve, Thanks for the thorough and well informed information. I'm even happier wit= h my decision to return the Vista and order the "V". And even though the III+ looks like a nice unit, I couldn't get past its la= ck of memory and other features. I want a unit that will at least seem current for a few years, the III+ can't even use some of the CDs= that are available now. Now whether I would ever use any of those missing features, I don't know...it's just that the "V" has to= be better...they said so...they wouldn't lie... I certainly hope the "V"s display is adequate. Since I have nothing to comp= are it to (this is my first GPS unit) it will probably seem usable to me. The next time your in Peoria (the real one, in Illinois, where Mark Grace b= egan his professional baseball career, not the trailer- park one, in AZ, where Mark Grace got the World Series ring he deserves, st= upid Cubs) stop by and I'll let you borrow it for a while ;-] Brad J. Morris A16 :( Illinois P.S. I wished I lived in the trailer park one right now. At least I could b= e out riding today.

> The Etrex Legend, Vista, and Venture are very ill suited for any fixed mo=

unt

> vehicle application IMO. The screens are much harder to read than someth=

ing

> like the III+/12map due to poorer contrast and smaller display. The > backlight being nonadjustable is way too bright at night. They have very= > slow processors that give very poor map updates. If they aren't getting > good signal reception, they are even slower. They do not have internal > power conditioning / regulators allowing direct wiring to the vehicles > electrical. The buttons are much more difficult to use than the III+/12m=

ap,

> especially with gloves and aren't lit at night making dark nighttime use =

not

> only blinding, but very difficult in trying to figure out which button to= > press. Even though you are looking to use this on a MC, I still should > point out that they work very poorly inside of a car. > > These units are designed for hiking and hunting, not for vehicles and it > shows. > > I haven't had any experience with the "V", but I would be just a little > concerned about the display contrast. It may still be a good unit if you= > want auto-routing though. For me, the auto-routing is more a novelty, an=

d

> so I opted for the 176. Another unit that shouldn't be overlooked if 8MB=

is

> adequate map memory would be the Map76. This a great value that looks li=

ke

> a super unit for MC's, but seems to be missed in most folks consideration=

s.

> Personally, I need more than 8MB though. > > I would recommend anyone wanting to use a unit on their bike to stay away= > from the units that are principally designed for hiking; they are cheap, =

but

> they just are nowhere near as good as the units designed for vehicles. > > More and more of the boating units (like the Map76 and the 176) are now > getting highway functionality and are exceptionally rugged. Remember, th=

e

> III+/12Map were originally designed for boating. I strongly recommend > either looking at these units or the units designed for automotive, i.e. > eMap, "V", or the StreetPilot III. > > In other words, the units that work best on a MC will be found on: > http://garmin.com/mobile/ > http://garmin.com/marine/ > > Just make certain that boating units that support 8MB or more of map memo=

ry

> have MetroGuide support; many still don't. > > The III+ and 12map are still great units mostly hindered only by their la=

ck

> of map memory. It's not that you can't use the eTrex series on a MC, the=

y

> just simply aren't designed for this type of use and it shows compared to= > units that are... > > > Steve A. in AZ > > > BTW, my experience running GPS's on MC's for extended periods is limited =

to:

> > 45 > 12XL > 12Map > 12CX > II+ > III > StreetPilot (original) > III+ > eMap > Vista > 176 > > > I still need to borrow someone's "V", StreetPilot III, Map76, 176C, > 182/182C ;-]

[RM]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 jayed36@... wrote:

>There may be a few of us from Northern CA going down to Baja in January. >We're thinking of trailering the bikes to San Diego. Are there any >listers in the San Diego area who have a lot or an area where we could >park the vehicle and trailer for 2 weeks? Any help is appreciated.

If you don't get any answers, you might try asking here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCalDualSport I'd offer you the room to store your stuff if I had it... RM

[N/A]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Steve Anderson" wrote:

> Joe, > > I have a question: > > Have you used the other units he's speaking of? If not, then how

can you

> compare units like he is asking? I didn't say you couldn't use the

Legend

> on an MC, just that the other units are much better and the reasons

why...

> > For doing a day ride, I would grab a 12map or III+ any time over

the Legend

> for all the reasons I mentioned. What about you? Why do you

prefer the

> Legend over those unit? This would be presuming you have used the > III+/12Map on a MC of course. > > > BTW, there are listgroups out there that have discussed these

differences

> over and over; these are not just my opinions. A relative

comparison is a

> different thing than a simple unit review (rave)... > > So you can actually use that little click stick thingy on the

Legend while

> riding? ;-] > > > > Steve A. in AZ

To change the subject just a bit, what about a GPS for multiple uses? I want a GPS for use on my motorcycle as well as for hiking and mountain biking. I'm leaning towards the vista because it appears to be the best all- around unit. It appears to be a bit of a compromise for vehicular use, but will work, and is small enough and light enough for non- vehicular uses. Am I mistaken in assuming that the vista is a good unit for my requirements? -Trevor