Re: aluminum blocks and other mods

[Andy Bradley]

I nominate Skip for Grand Poo-Bah, due to his extreme sense of sense.
--
Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

[mrbadger]

I know what you mean Andreas.
I have about ten cars right now, everything from a 1925 Delage with a
boat-tailed skiff body to a 1965 Aston Martin DB-5 Vantage spec coupe
(just like James Bonds car but minus the gadgets). One of the cars in
the middle is a hot rod 1934 Alvis with a 3.4 liter Jag engine and a
bunch of other stuff that I built but, the thing is I started off with
nothing but an abandoned junk chassis. It's these guys that start off
with a perfectly good basically original car and bastardize the poor old
thing in a misguided attempt to make it into something it ain't and lose
track of the fact that a vintage car is not SUPPOSED to drive and handle
like a 1998 BMW that bug the Hell out of me.
Derek

Andreas Pichler wrote:

>
> Hmmm...I understand Mr Badger. But on the other hand, I have a certain
> feeling while, using a classic car. You are driving it. You exactly know
> how to improve this special car. You cant withstand...aluminium
> cylinder hand, improved shock absorbers...you are buying everything MOSS
> will sell you.
> Then you have the perfect car. But its no more a classic car. Therefore
> you buy another, old unrestored classic car...vicious circle.
> My receipe? You need two cars, at least. I have an MGTD, pretty
> original, well restored (John Davis/Bob Luebbert). This is my claasic
> car. No modifications. For every day use, there is an MGA, 5 speed box
> and all the stuff. Possible to build it back. And if I want to have
> really much power - there is a HERTZ car rental at every airport
> To become serious: If a modification is re-buildable - why not?
> Otherwise - buy a modern car.
> (These PORSCHES or so - buy the way, did any gentleman studied the list
> of the LE JOG gold medal winners...)?
> Regards,
> Andreas
>
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[Andy Bradley]

Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one "perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such,
and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and
encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would satisfy the rest of us......

--
Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

[mrbadger]

Better stick with your Beemer sport, how much fun can you have in a TC
on a freeway anyway. Stick to the back country roads (if you still have
any out there) and you'll get a more realistic view of what TCs are all
about.
In terms of motoring history, a humble MG TC may be of greater overall
significance than even an 8c Alfa. Don't put it down.

AJChalmers@aol.com wrote:

>
> If it was an 8c2300 Alfa I could understand the pur sang thing, but these
> cars of ours, to keep driving in California anyway, had better be up to it,
> and that means freeway speeds and safety.

[mrbadger]

You've totally missed the point Andy!
These cars are to be used and maintained and enjoyed. They are not to
be be placed in lucite blocks and they are not to be kept going by
bastardizing them at the expense of originality and design integrity.
I will ignore your second and infinitely more rude comment.

Andy Bradley wrote:

>
> Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one "perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such,
> and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and
> encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would satisfy the rest of us......
>
> --
> Cheers....Andy B.
> Bradley Restoration

[Mark McCombs]

Dont have a soul?
I wish you were here when my "never, ever" failed to start TD wouldnt even
turn over when
a perspective buyer sat in it....I think it didnt want to go!
Anyway, I would say they all have a personality, if not a soul. Any changes
made to the car therefore changes the personality of it, for better or
worse.
Mark McCombs
TC EXU (and for faster trips, 924S)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Silva
To: mrbadger
Cc: Skip Kelsey ; MG-TABC
Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: aluminum blocks and other mods

>I can only hope that you can have a more open mind when the doctor

recommends a

>pacemaker for you or someone that you care for, get a grip they are only a

bunch of

>assembled parts, they really don't have a soul!!
>
>mrbadger wrote:
>
>> Why stop with the Datsun steering box? If safety is your ultimate goal,
>> I can think of lots of changes you could make! How about anti-lock
>> brakes, airbags, collapsible steering column, disc brakes with power
>> assist, lo-pro radial tires, but if you go that far, you might as well
>> just bolt on a Camaro front sub frame, a chrome Jag IRS unit and drop in
>> a small block! Hey, what the hell, you could still call it an MG if you
>> want to, I don't care.
>> Happy motoring! Derek
>>
>> >
>>
>> Skip Kelsey wrote:
>> >
>> > Derek:
>> >
>> > You certainly have a right to your opinion, and can do or not do

anything

>> > that you want to your car. But to flatly state that if I improve the
>> > steering, by installing a Datsun steering box in a TC, then it is no

longer

>> > an MG is laughable. I agree that major engine swaps and the like are

not

>> > the way to go, but to make the car safer to drive is acceptable. I do

not

>> > feel that this will turn it into a "hot rod".
>> >
>> > Cheers;
>> >
>> > Skip.....................
>> >
>> > At 04:05 PM 3/4/00 -0500, mrbadger wrote:
>> > >Greetings Skip.
>> > >Let me clarify by saying that, certainly, you or anyone else has every
>> > >right to modify his or her own car in any way that he or she sees fit
>> > >but please, lets understand that, once modified, it will no longer be

an

>> > >MG. Now I'm not talking about precisely the exact right original

color

>> > >or precisely the exact original size of the rear window, (although

these

>> > >things are also important), I'm talking about the kind of radical
>> > >alterations that I have seen recently discussed such as a radical

change

>> > >in the material of which the engine block is made or installation of a
>> > >Nissan steering box, or a re-engineering of a portion of the

suspension

>> > >system. I have a great appreciation for a really good hot rod, in

many

>> > >ways it is more difficult to come up with a truly successful hot rod
>> > >than it is to do a proper restoration. (I've done both), but let's
>> > >understand the difference. Once the original, factory, mechanical
>> > >design integrity of the car has been breached, it may be a wonderful

and

>> > >a very fine car indeed, and it may or may not still look like and MG,
>> > >but it is NOT an MG.
>> > >Derek Durst
>> > >
>> > >Skip Kelsey wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Derek:
>> > >>
>> > >> I think that we went thru this thread with a gentleman from Cape

Town. I

>> > >> dont think anyone has the right to be critical of someone elses way

of

>> > >> thinking about their car, and its mods. I like the saying "Safety

Fast",

>> > >> which was coined by MG in the early days. Those were the folks that

were

>> > >> always striving for improvements to their cars. I have owned my "T"

MG

>> > >> since 1960. I have made several mods to it, so that its reliabilty

will be

>> > >> enhanced. I have put 128,000 miles on it, and itrs a long way from

the

>> > >> "junkyard". This thing about being custodians, is in my opinion, a

lot of

>> > >> horse dung. It is my car, and by god I will drive it and maintain to

my

>> > likes.
>> > >> Lets have more positive input please!!!
>> > >>
>> > >> Cheers:
>> > >>
>> > >> Skip Kelsey.....................
>> > >>
>> > >> At 02:18 PM 3/4/00 -0500, mrbadger wrote:
>> > >> >It is certainly not my intent to attack TATerry or anyone else
>> > >> >personally and I will be very pleased to make some positive

comments

>> > >> >based on my 40 years experience driving a TC. Back around the time

that

>> > >> >I bought my TC which was the spring of 1960, it was not at all

uncommon

>> > >> >to see TCs, TDs, even pre-war cars in daily everyday use or parked

on

>> > >> >the street much as you might see an MGB in use today, I did a

little

>> > >> >racing and I used to hang out at the old Thompson race track in the

N.E.

>> > >> >corner of Connecticut and others, I remember there were a couple of

guys

>> > >> >who had put Ford V-8 60s into their TCs, other popular conversions

were

>> > >> >Triumph and Volvo engines. While these cars mostly went faster

than the

>> > >> >stock ones, I noticed that these well intentioned attempts at
>> > >> >"improvement" ultimately hastened these "better" cars arrival at

the

>> > >> >local scrap yard, I well remember the rows of butchered TCs and TDs

at

>> > >> >Stuckey's junkyard in Staten Island, NY during the mid 1960s, of

course,

>> > >> >some of them were eventually restored back to their original
>> > >> >configuration also. The point that I am trying to make here is

that by

>> > >> >re-designing/re-engineering/updating/modernizing/ a major component

of

>> > >> >one's MG, while I'm sure one's intentions are honorable, just as

were

>> > >> >the intentions of those guys "updating" and "improving" their cars

with

>> > >> >V8-60s and while the car may seem to be better off for a while, in

the

>> > >> >end, you will have something that is certainly no longer an MG and
>> > >> >probably less than an MG. I would like to make it clear at this

point

>> > >> >that I am not just addressing the issue of aluminum blocks but also

to

>> > >> >all the other mods I have been reading about such as mods to wheel
>> > >> >bearings, spindles, steering, lighting, electrical, timber framing,

and

>> > >> >others.
>> > >> >I don't believe that we actually own our old cars, I believe that

we are

>> > >> >really acting as temporary custodians to a little piece of history

and

>> > >> >as such, it behooves us to maintain the original design integrity

and

>> > >> >not to alter it on personal whim or to satisfy an ego. I believe

we owe

>> > >> >that to history and to the future "owners" of our cars.
>> > >> >Derek Durst
>> > >> >
>> > >> >TATERRY@aol.com wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Derek, you know we've done business on Ebay....and

recently...however if

>> > >> you
>> > >> >> are not interested in a alloy block, why not just continue to

lurk on

>> > the
>> > >> >> list...why do you have to attack me? You have never surfaced

before on

>> > >> this
>> > >> >> list...why now?
>> > >> >> Instead, why don't you say some positive things MG wise so that

we all

>> > >> might
>> > >> >> learn from your 40 years of TC driving? I bought my first MG in

1957,

>> > >> TC in
>> > >> >> 1962...I know whats out there...and FYI, I've had a LOT of

interest

>> > in the
>> > >> >> possibility of a new bare block...so just back off.
>> > >> >> Terry
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >> >-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
>> > >> >-- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/mg-tabc/?m=1
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >
>> >
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
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>>
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>> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
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>
>
>

[Skip Kelsey]

Andy:

Your priceless!!!!I wish that I had said it.


Cheers:

Skip....................

At 05:08 PM 3/4/00 -0800, Andy Bradley wrote:

>Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one

"perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such,

>and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the

Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and

>encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would

satisfy the rest of us......

>
>--
>Cheers....Andy B.
>Bradley Restoration
>
>
>
>

[mrbadger]

Yes, Terry the first MG was a hot rodded Morris but the TC was a quality
production car and you ain't no Cecil Kimber.
Can't get the bearing nut off a TC first motion shaft? Why bother? Why
not toss that old lump of a gearbox and adapt a 5 speed from some Jap
job?

TATERRY@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 3/4/00 7:51:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, mrbadger@home.com
> writes:
>
> >
>
> My last thought on the dreaded thread. We beat this kind of thing to death a
> while back and it resulted in several folks getting off the list. It also
> resulted in some our most enthusiastic Tabc'ers in to going into permanent
> lurk mode and now we don't have the benefit of their experience here.
>
> Thank God that Cecil Kimber didn't feel like Derek and others do. If he did,
> there would have only been Morris's and NO MG's. MG's were hot rodded
> Morris's and the never hesitated to modify the cars to make them better....
>
> Your particular TC is just a snapshot in time, use it as you wish, but don't
> castigate other for having fun and safe driving as they see it. Now lets
> drop this thread before someone paints themselves into a corner.
>
> We have serious problem out here trying to get the bearing nut off the first
> motion shaft of a TC gearbox....could we have some (positive) suggestions on
> how to do this. From which end is the shaft viewed when considering the LHT
> nut?
>
> Cheers.......Safety Fast........Terry

[DickShaler@aol.com]

Allan in a beemer and not having a firm grip on the idea of what TCs are "all
about"?
Now that's funny or would that be impossibly ridiculous.

Greetings All Dick

[AndyJ]

Lurking, no more, I come out of the woodwork to try to spread Duckhams on
troubled waters. The recent thread reminds me of going to
church,(synagogue, Mosque, Ashram, etc., etc.) The preacher is called to
remind us of our higher purpose and the congregation, in its lowly, worldly,
real self is shamed into right thinking for at least another week. Well,
this forum is not church (etc., etc.) and our cars are not as pure as the
driven snow. they have been "modified here and there over the years by
practical people to enable, safer, more comfortable operation. On the other
hand other cars are or have been put back into more or less original
condition. In the case of the former, I like to think of my car as a
rolling piece of history, and what former owners have done with it, (so long
as the changes have been relatively minor like using neoprene where rubber
once was, or replacing wood screws with bolts, or rubber fuel lines with
silicone lined stainless steel mesh fuel lines, or living with my
Clearhooter horn while my restored Altette hangs on the garage wall (I just
like the name Clearhooter, better - it makes me laugh)

Now in the case of the latter, We have several museums around here with Mg's
in them and even an original PA Airline coupe, too, and we all enjoy seeing
them. Their owners, or more correctly curators, take great pains to make
sure they have an un-bastardized car. (Bastardize - A very curious and
inflammatory term indeed to be used to describe the condition of a car - why
not mongrelized, or degenerative, or blasphmized,,,that would really put
those bastards in their place!) My TC has had a life of loving use and
disuse by a few folks (I only wish I knew who) who handed the car down to me
in relatively complete and original condition. What they did with the car
is all part of that car's history, and I do not wish to turn the clock back
to 1949 to regain its lost "soul". When MG's die do they go to heaven or
hell? I guess it depends on whether they have any foreign parts on them)
Gadzooks! I better run out and remove those Bosch sparking plugs...now where
in heaven or hell did i put those pink Lodges!

So, dear curators, drivers, racers, hillclimbers, hot-rodders, and even the
the exalted, MG protectors of the Faith, now that we have taken the topic
from the serious to the ridiculous, can we all agree to live and let live.
Why not let's all agree that at the Grand Concours in the sky the complete
and original car will win and the rest of will politely applaud the winner.
The winner's owner may be allowed to conduct clinics and break-out sessions
on how to maintain a 100 point car and the rest will dutifully listen and
take notes. And the rest who have raced with 16" wheels and Pertronics
ignition, and other hi-tech or foreign mods will be allowed to smile and
remember the fun they had with their cars. But for now, here on Earth,
let's just have a little fun and put our differences behind us!!!
From: mrbadger
To: ; MG-TABC
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 3:58 AM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: aluminum blocks and other mods

> Yes, Terry the first MG was a hot rodded Morris but the TC was a quality
> production car and you ain't no Cecil Kimber.
> Can't get the bearing nut off a TC first motion shaft? Why bother? Why
> not toss that old lump of a gearbox and adapt a 5 speed from some Jap
> job?
>
> TATERRY@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 3/4/00 7:51:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,

mrbadger@home.com

> > writes:
> >
> > >
> >
> > My last thought on the dreaded thread. We beat this kind of thing to

death a

> > while back and it resulted in several folks getting off the list. It

also

> > resulted in some our most enthusiastic Tabc'ers in to going into

permanent

> > lurk mode and now we don't have the benefit of their experience here.
> >
> > Thank God that Cecil Kimber didn't feel like Derek and others do. If he

did,

> > there would have only been Morris's and NO MG's. MG's were hot rodded
> > Morris's and the never hesitated to modify the cars to make them

better....

> >
> > Your particular TC is just a snapshot in time, use it as you wish, but

don't

> > castigate other for having fun and safe driving as they see it. Now

lets

> > drop this thread before someone paints themselves into a corner.
> >
> > We have serious problem out here trying to get the bearing nut off the

first

> > motion shaft of a TC gearbox....could we have some (positive)

suggestions on

> > how to do this. From which end is the shaft viewed when considering the

LHT

> > nut?
> >
> > Cheers.......Safety Fast........Terry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
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