King Pin Bolt and Nut

[DougPulver@aol.com]

After removing my car's king pins this morning, I noticed that the replacement king pin bolt and nut from Moss (part number 261-097) do not have a nut (or head) on both sides like the one I took off. I understand that this "outside nut" serves as a steering "stop" to keep the wheel from scuffing the fenders. Should I install the Moss bolt or is there an alternative replacement I should get? Thanks in advance. Doug Pulver TC 5850 San Diego, CA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Cole]

Doug, The king pin is fixed in place in the beam axle by what we call a cotter pin, but I believe you use that term for what we call a split pin. Confusing isn't it? Anyway, a cotter pin is essentially a round head-less pin with a thread at one end and a tapered flat along its length and was commonly used to hold the cranks in place on a bicycle. I believe that the original cotter pins fitted to our cars were different in as much as they had a special head that engaged with the special screw fitted into the concave face of the stub axle. (The cotter pin being fitted from the rear of the axle.) These two parts meet to form a steering stop which comes into play just before the Bishop's cam reaches the end of its travel. If the part is different from the original the stop may not operate at the correct point, or may not operate at all, which may put additional stress on the Bishop's cam. I believe Roger Furneaux of this list can supply the correct parts. Peter Cole. DougPulver@aol.com wrote:

>After removing my car's king pins this morning, I noticed that the replacement king pin bolt and nut from Moss (part number 261-097) do not have a nut (or head) on both sides like the one I took off. I understand that this "outside nut" serves as a steering "stop" to keep the wheel from scuffing the fenders. Should I install the Moss bolt or is there an alternative replacement I should get? > >Thanks in advance. > >Doug Pulver >TC 5850 >San Diego, CA > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >

[Bob Grunau]

Doug, I would not install the Moss bolt/cotter as it does not give you a steering stop. You can duplicate your own cotter by filing a 3/8" NF stud to a taper to match the old bolt/cotter, then install a 3/8" nut on the front, tap in the cotter tight, re-tighten front nut, then install a 3/8" nut on the backside to act as the steering stop. Shim with washers on the back nut if you want to adjust the stop position. Bob Bob Grunau 150 Pinewood Trail, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, L5G-2L1 905-274-4136 -----Original Message----- From: DougPulver@aol.com [mailto:DougPulver@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 2:41 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [mg-tabc] King Pin Bolt and Nut After removing my car's king pins this morning, I noticed that the replacement king pin bolt and nut from Moss (part number 261-097) do not have a nut (or head) on both sides like the one I took off. I understand that this "outside nut" serves as a steering "stop" to keep the wheel from scuffing the fenders. Should I install the Moss bolt or is there an alternative replacement I should get? Thanks in advance. Doug Pulver TC 5850 San Diego, CA

[D&J Edgar]

Doug, Now it has been about 30 years since I did this but as I recall with my feeble mind that I had bought Moss cotter pins which came with an enlarged cylindrical head for the steering stop. I thought they looked ugly though and evidently found another source as what I have on there now has the nut type head. May have gotten them from Abingdon or Kimble Engineering. Suppliers to those companies may have changed in 30 years though. Note also that said cotter pin head meet up with a second bolt head. This second bolt fits into the steering knuckle to form the second half of the stop. Gotta have both parts for stop action to take place. Regarding making up your own cotter, Bob is far more experienced at this than I but if you make up your own cotter from a 3/8" stud I am not sure if it will fit through the front side of the knuckle. I think the front side hole is smaller (maybe along a 1/4" size) so you may have to turn end of cotter down in size and rethread. Inspection of the knuckle, since you have it off, will verify or discredit that part of my memory. And lastly, Doug had asked me direct in another email about where to get the king pin bushings reamed to fit. In thinking about it more last night I now don't remember having them reamed. I had gotten Moss king pin sets (bushings, pin, thrust washer and felt) to fit and once pressed in I believe the king pins just slid in with a comfortable fit. Weather I am remembering this right is up for grabs. Maybe I was just lucky in the fit and reaming is the standard procedure. Whatever - they have served well for 30 years. David Edgar, TC 5108 El Cajon, California

On 3/10/05 6:07 AM, "Bob Grunau" grunau.garage@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Doug, > I would not install the Moss bolt/cotter as it does not give you a steering > stop. > You can duplicate your own cotter by filing a 3/8" NF stud to a taper to > match the old bolt/cotter, then install a 3/8" nut on the front, tap in the > cotter tight, re-tighten front nut, then install a 3/8" nut on the backside > to act as the steering stop. Shim with washers on the back nut if you want > to adjust the stop position. > Bob > Bob Grunau > 150 Pinewood Trail, > Mississauga, Ontario, > Canada, L5G-2L1 > 905-274-4136

[SSkoesten@makinglifecount.com]

Some advice please. While I had the axle shaft out of my TC replacing the rear wheel bearing I thought I might as well replace the rear springs too. My repair manual says to remove the split pin and the outside lower nut on the rear shackle as well as the front nut and retaining washer for the front shackle. Then the spring should pull off the manual says. Well I've done that but the spring won't budge. Does the inside split pin and nut also need to be removed or do I just need to bash the spring more to get it off? Stewart TC8862 EXU

----- Original Message ----- From: "D&J Edgar" djedgar@pacbell.net> To: "TABC" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] King Pin Bolt and Nut > > Doug, > > Now it has been about 30 years since I did this but as I recall with my > feeble mind that I had bought Moss cotter pins which came with an enlarged > cylindrical head for the steering stop. I thought they looked ugly though > and evidently found another source as what I have on there now has the nut > type head. May have gotten them from Abingdon or Kimble Engineering. > Suppliers to those companies may have changed in 30 years though. > > Note also that said cotter pin head meet up with a second bolt head. This > second bolt fits into the steering knuckle to form the second half of the > stop. Gotta have both parts for stop action to take place. > > Regarding making up your own cotter, Bob is far more experienced at this > than I but if you make up your own cotter from a 3/8" stud I am not sure if > it will fit through the front side of the knuckle. I think the front side > hole is smaller (maybe along a 1/4" size) so you may have to turn end of > cotter down in size and rethread. Inspection of the knuckle, since you have > it off, will verify or discredit that part of my memory. > > And lastly, Doug had asked me direct in another email about where to get the > king pin bushings reamed to fit. In thinking about it more last night I > now don't remember having them reamed. I had gotten Moss king pin sets > (bushings, pin, thrust washer and felt) to fit and once pressed in I believe > the king pins just slid in with a comfortable fit. Weather I am remembering > this right is up for grabs. Maybe I was just lucky in the fit and reaming > is the standard procedure. Whatever - they have served well for 30 years. > > David Edgar, TC 5108 > El Cajon, California > > On 3/10/05 6:07 AM, "Bob Grunau" grunau.garage@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > > Doug, > > I would not install the Moss bolt/cotter as it does not give you a steering > > stop. > > You can duplicate your own cotter by filing a 3/8" NF stud to a taper to > > match the old bolt/cotter, then install a 3/8" nut on the front, tap in the > > cotter tight, re-tighten front nut, then install a 3/8" nut on the backside > > to act as the steering stop. Shim with washers on the back nut if you want > > to adjust the stop position. > > Bob > > Bob Grunau > > 150 Pinewood Trail, > > Mississauga, Ontario, > > Canada, L5G-2L1 > > 905-274-4136 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

[Rick Waters]

There is no front shackle on the rear springs. I assume you mean the silent bloc bushing. Have you removed the complete rear shackle "arm" on the outside of the spring? It should pull (bash) off the silent bloc and the rear pin. I think it's best to take the entire rear shackle assembly apart while you are at this. You can replace all the bushings, clean and paint, etc.... SSkoesten@makinglifecount.com wrote: Some advice please. While I had the axle shaft out of my TC replacing the rear wheel bearing I thought I might as well replace the rear springs too. My repair manual says to remove the split pin and the outside lower nut on the rear shackle as well as the front nut and retaining washer for the front shackle. Then the spring should pull off the manual says. Well I've done that but the spring won't budge. Does the inside split pin and nut also need to be removed or do I just need to bash the spring more to get it off? Stewart TC8862 EXU

----- Original Message ----- From: "D&J Edgar" To: "TABC" Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] King Pin Bolt and Nut > > Doug, > > Now it has been about 30 years since I did this but as I recall with my > feeble mind that I had bought Moss cotter pins which came with an enlarged > cylindrical head for the steering stop. I thought they looked ugly though > and evidently found another source as what I have on there now has the nut > type head. May have gotten them from Abingdon or Kimble Engineering. > Suppliers to those companies may have changed in 30 years though. > > Note also that said cotter pin head meet up with a second bolt head. This > second bolt fits into the steering knuckle to form the second half of the > stop. Gotta have both parts for stop action to take place. > > Regarding making up your own cotter, Bob is far more experienced at this > than I but if you make up your own cotter from a 3/8" stud I am not sure if > it will fit through the front side of the knuckle. I think the front side > hole is smaller (maybe along a 1/4" size) so you may have to turn end of > cotter down in size and rethread. Inspection of the knuckle, since you have > it off, will verify or discredit that part of my memory. > > And lastly, Doug had asked me direct in another email about where to get the > king pin bushings reamed to fit. In thinking about it more last night I > now don't remember having them reamed. I had gotten Moss king pin sets > (bushings, pin, thrust washer and felt) to fit and once pressed in I believe > the king pins just slid in with a comfortable fit. Weather I am remembering > this right is up for grabs. Maybe I was just lucky in the fit and reaming > is the standard procedure. Whatever - they have served well for 30 years. > > David Edgar, TC 5108 > El Cajon, California > > On 3/10/05 6:07 AM, "Bob Grunau" wrote: > > > > > Doug, > > I would not install the Moss bolt/cotter as it does not give you a steering > > stop. > > You can duplicate your own cotter by filing a 3/8" NF stud to a taper to > > match the old bolt/cotter, then install a 3/8" nut on the front, tap in the > > cotter tight, re-tighten front nut, then install a 3/8" nut on the backside > > to act as the steering stop. Shim with washers on the back nut if you want > > to adjust the stop position. > > Bob > > Bob Grunau > > 150 Pinewood Trail, > > Mississauga, Ontario, > > Canada, L5G-2L1 > > 905-274-4136 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links -Rick Waters --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]