Restoring the original steering to a TC

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Bob Stein
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:22 am

Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Bob Stein » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:50 am

My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

 

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required. Any suggestions for a good resource?

 

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount. As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap. Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

 

Thanks for any assistance!

 

Bob Stein

TC5308

 


doug fromtheframeup.com
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:13 am

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by doug fromtheframeup.com » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:21 am

Hi Bob and all,

 

FTFU provides this service.  We have all of the parts on the shelf.

 

ALSO NOTE:  FTFU now has new Sector Shafts and Drop Arms.  Both are forged out of modern high strength steel.  The drop arm looks exactly like original.  And the sector shaft has been made to already accept the Tomkins adjust screw.

 

Reminder to all:  Have your items checked for cracks.

 

[b][i]Doug Pelton[/i][/b]

 

From The Frame Up

4064 E. Presidio St.  #104

Mesa, AZ  85215

480-588-8185

 

For fastest service:  order@fromtheframeup.com

Check out our website:   www.FromTheFrameUp.com

Keep up to date with:      FaceBook

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:51 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC

 

 

My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

 

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required.  Any suggestions for a good resource?

 

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount.  As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap.  Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

 

Thanks for any assistance!

 

Bob Stein

TC5308

 


Clive Sherriff
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:11 pm

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Clive Sherriff » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:22 am

Bob, It should be a straight swop. Make sure you have a TC chassis bracket not a TA one. The box is a simple restoration, bore the box, new sector shaft with oversized shaft if you can get one, or even hard chrome up a new one to suit would be good, or bush back to standard, and new worm and peg, Flat grind the lid. New bearings of course. Some fit an oil seal at the bottom of the sector shaft. You should NOT. The box depends on a slow "flow" loss of oil down the shaft to clear out the small amounts of metal which wear off in normal use. If there is no flow down the shaft you just end up with a static mass of dirty metal filled oil which simply acts as a sort of grinding paste. In extreemis it can lock the box solid !This is one drip you do need ! This is another reason you use OIL and not grease in the box, and top it up regularly. Check the chassis and axle alignment and the steering geometry, Use the wedges, and set the toe in generously. Here toe in can be used to make driving nicer depending on where you drive.It does alter the feel. If you do long straight roads then a generous toe in helps self alignment of the wheels, but makes the steering a bit heavier on bends, if you drive twisting backroads then the "book" 1/4 inch is probably best to lighten the steering. As adjusting toe in is quite simple it's worth trying a few settings to see which suits you best.
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 12:50, Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

[u][/u] [u][/u]

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required. Any suggestions for a good resource?

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount. As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap. Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Thanks for any assistance!

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Bob Stein

TC5308

[u][/u] [u][/u]


Clive Sherriff
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:11 pm

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Clive Sherriff » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:39 am

Doug makes a very good point re the steering box and axle components ~ " Reminder to all: Have your items checked for cracks." And (no offence Doug) but that does include any new parts you might have sourced too. Steering drop arms. the ball joints , drag links etc. And if youve taken off the front axle make sure both it and the hubs go back the right way round! Once had a case come in where the hubs were on the wrong side ~ the wheel nuts undid and the wheel came off and rushed down the road ahead !
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 14:21, doug fromtheframeup.com doug@fromtheframeup.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Hi Bob and all,[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

FTFU provides this service. We have all of the parts on the shelf.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

ALSO NOTE: FTFU now has new Sector Shafts and Drop Arms. Both are forged out of modern high strength steel. The drop arm looks exactly like original. And the sector shaft has been made to already accept the Tomkins adjust screw.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Reminder to all: Have your items checked for cracks.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b][i]Doug Pelton[u][/u][u][/u][/i][/b]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

From The Frame Up[u][/u][u][/u]

4064 E. Presidio St. #104[u][/u][u][/u]

Mesa, AZ 85215[u][/u][u][/u]

480-588-8185[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

For fastest service: order@fromtheframeup.com[u][/u][u][/u]

Check out our website: www.FromTheFrameUp.com[u][/u][u][/u]

Keep up to date with: FaceBook[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:51 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u] [u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required. Any suggestions for a good resource?[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount. As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap. Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

Thanks for any assistance![u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

Bob Stein[u][/u][u][/u]

TC5308[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]

[u][/u][u][/u]


Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:51 am

The steering box in TC2911 is in good shape as is the rest of the car for the most part. The biggest improvement in steering and directional stability was realized when I increased the toe to 1/2" per the TA/TB specs. Steering effort really did not change, lost motion is very minimal and the car no longer wanders left and right, while I don't drive it much over 60 mph, it is more to keep the revs down and save the engine rather than a steering issue. Steve TC2911 On Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 9:22:20 AM EDT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Bob, It should be a straight swop.   Make sure you have a TC  chassis bracket not a TA one. The box is a simple restoration, bore the box, new sector shaft with oversized shaft if you can get one, or even hard chrome up a new one to suit would be good, or bush back to standard, and new worm and peg, Flat grind the lid. New bearings of course. Some fit an oil seal at the bottom of the sector shaft.  You should NOT.  The box depends on a slow "flow" loss of oil down the shaft to clear out the small amounts of metal which wear off in normal use.  If there is no flow down the shaft you just end up with a static mass of dirty metal filled oil which simply acts as a sort of grinding paste.  In extreemis it can lock the box solid !This is one drip you do need ! This is another reason you use OIL and not grease in the box, and top it up regularly. Check the chassis and axle alignment and the steering geometry, Use the wedges, and set the toe in generously.   Here toe in can be used to make driving nicer depending on where you drive.It does alter the feel.  If you do long straight roads then a generous toe in helps self alignment of the wheels, but makes the steering a bit heavier on bends, if you drive twisting backroads then the "book" 1/4 inch is probably best to lighten the steering. As adjusting toe in is quite simple it's worth trying a few settings to see which suits you best. On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 12:50, Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
[u][/u]   My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

[u][/u] [u][/u]

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required.  Any suggestions for a good resource?

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount.  As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap.  Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Thanks for any assistance!

[u][/u] [u][/u]

Bob Stein

TC5308

[u][/u] [u][/u]

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Norman Verona
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:21 am

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Norman Verona » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:20 am

Dear all,

 

[b]This is for those in the UK.[/b],[b][/b]

 

Having just completed the Peaks to Lakes run . I ve had my arm twisted to do another run next year.

 

I think we should go back to August for next year as many of us were on holiday during the first week of September.

 

My initial thoughts are to start at the Midland Hotel, Morecambe, which was a very popular choice to start from last year. We would wend our way on the quiet roads through the Lake District to Penrith and then cross the North Pennines to the coast somewhere near Sunderland (don t worry all those from the South you won t get nose bleeds that far North ). We would stay in a hotel to be chosen and then visit the Beamish living Museum on the Sunday. This is a fantastic place (http://www.beamish.org.uk/) . We can then stay over one more night or, those not living too far south go home in the afternoon. You can easily spend all day at Beamish and I will enquire if we can bring the Classic cars in.

 

[b]If you would be interested can you respond with a yes[/b]. The cost would be 10 per car plus whatever the admission fee is for Beamish, if you want to visit. I would require 30 to confirm your place and refund 20 towards meals or hotels. No money yet please, let s see how many are interested.

 

For those worried about driving their T series on long runs, Mine has done over 450 miles over the weekend, not missed a beat, climbed all the hills and used about pint of oil (but two and a half tanks of fuel )

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

[b][u]Norman Verona aka "Email Norman"[/u][/b]

11 Cherry close, Royston, S71 4LZ

Mob: 0741 9905 741

Web: www.frenchblat.com

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 11 September 2019 15:47 [b]To:[/b] Bob Stein Posti@aol.com>; CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC

 

 

The steering box in TC2911 is in good shape as is the rest of the car for the most part. The biggest improvement in steering and directional stability was realized when I increased the toe to 1/2" per the TA/TB specs. Steering effort really did not change, lost motion is very minimal and the car no longer wanders left and right, while I don't drive it much over 60 mph, it is more to keep the revs down and save the engine rather than a steering issue. Steve TC2911

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 9:22:20 AM EDT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

 

Bob,

 

It should be a straight swop.  

 

Make sure you have a TC  chassis bracket not a TA one.

 

The box is a simple restoration, bore the box, new sector shaft with 

oversized shaft if you can get one, or even hard chrome up a new one to 

suit would be good, or bush back to standard, and new worm and peg, 

Flat grind the lid. New bearings of course.

 

Some fit an oil seal at the bottom of the sector shaft.  You should NOT.  

The box depends on a slow "flow" loss of oil down the shaft to clear out 

the small amounts of metal which wear off in normal use.  If there is no flow 

down the shaft you just end up with a static mass of dirty metal filled oil which 

simply acts as a sort of grinding paste.  In extreemis it can lock the box solid !

This is one drip you do need !

 

This is another reason you use OIL and not grease in the box, and top it up 

regularly.

 

Check the chassis and axle alignment and the steering geometry, Use the 

wedges, and set the toe in generously.  

 

Here toe in can be used to make driving nicer depending on where you drive.

It does alter the feel.  If you do long straight roads then a generous toe in helps 

self alignment of the wheels, but makes the steering a bit heavier on bends, 

if you drive twisting backroads then the "book" 1/4 inch is probably best to 

lighten the steering..

 

As adjusting toe in is quite simple it's worth trying a few settings to see which 

suits you best.

 

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 12:50, Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

 

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required.  Any suggestions for a good resource?

 

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount.  As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap.  Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

 

Thanks for any assistance!

 

Bob Stein

TC5308

 


Trevor Burnett
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Trevor Burnett » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 am

Dear All,

 

Thanks for the most interesting discussion, please advise what the toe in would be in degrees.

 

Rgds Trevor Burnett ( TC 7196)

 

 

 

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 2019/09/11 04:47 PM [b]To:[/b] Bob Stein Posti@aol.com>; CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC

 

 

The steering box in TC2911 is in good shape as is the rest of the car for the most part. The biggest improvement in steering and directional stability was realized when I increased the toe to 1/2" per the TA/TB specs. Steering effort really did not change, lost motion is very minimal and the car no longer wanders left and right, while I don't drive it much over 60 mph, it is more to keep the revs down and save the engine rather than a steering issue. Steve TC2911

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 9:22:20 AM EDT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 

 

Bob,

 

It should be a straight swop.  

 

Make sure you have a TC  chassis bracket not a TA one.

 

The box is a simple restoration, bore the box, new sector shaft with 

oversized shaft if you can get one, or even hard chrome up a new one to 

suit would be good, or bush back to standard, and new worm and peg, 

Flat grind the lid. New bearings of course.

 

Some fit an oil seal at the bottom of the sector shaft.  You should NOT.  

The box depends on a slow "flow" loss of oil down the shaft to clear out 

the small amounts of metal which wear off in normal use.  If there is no flow 

down the shaft you just end up with a static mass of dirty metal filled oil which 

simply acts as a sort of grinding paste.  In extreemis it can lock the box solid !

This is one drip you do need !

 

This is another reason you use OIL and not grease in the box, and top it up 

regularly.

 

Check the chassis and axle alignment and the steering geometry, Use the 

wedges, and set the toe in generously.  

 

Here toe in can be used to make driving nicer depending on where you drive.

It does alter the feel.  If you do long straight roads then a generous toe in helps 

self alignment of the wheels, but makes the steering a bit heavier on bends, 

if you drive twisting backroads then the "book" 1/4 inch is probably best to 

lighten the steering..

 

As adjusting toe in is quite simple it's worth trying a few settings to see which 

suits you best.

 

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 12:50, Bob Stein Posti@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

My TC came with a VW steering box conversion already installed I would like to swap back to original and have a few questions.

 

First, I was able to buy an original TC steering column/box but want to get it checked out and rebuilt as required.  Any suggestions for a good resource?

 

Next I have picked up associated parts the steering arm and frame mount.  As far as I can tell, that should be all I need to reverse the swap.  Has anyone else done the change back, and are there any things I should be aware of?

 

Thanks for any assistance!

 

Bob Stein

TC5308

 


Bob Stein
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:22 am

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Bob Stein » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:12 am

All:

 

Thanks for the advice and comments. I will be sending the original box to Doug Pelton for inspection and overhaul as required. Since I have a good VW setup in place I don t need to rush this. Having owned TCs with both setups, I think the original steering is more responsive.

 

Bob Stein

TC5308

 


Frank Graham
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:12 pm

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Frank Graham » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:00 am

#ygrps-yiv-1873774923 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} Trevor, Castor and camber settings are angular measurements expressed in degrees between the steering and a vertical axis. Toe in is the relationship between the front wheels and it is the difference in linear measurements taken at the front and rear of the wheel rim. You can't use  a reference line like a vertical axis to express toe in as an angular measurement. I suppose that theoretically you could measure an angle between a line projected from the front wheels and the vehicle center line when the steering is straight ahead. However, since toe in is quite small the intersect would occur far in front of the vehicle and be impractical to measure. Its much easier to measure the difference in width across the vehicle at the front and rear edges of the wheel rims.    Regards, Frank  [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Trevor Burnett' trevor@safxmarine.co.za [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:38 AM [b]To:[/b] 'Stephen D Stierman' morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; 'Bob Stein' Posti@aol.com>; 'CLIVE SHERRIFF' csherriff99@gmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC    

Dear All,

 

                  Thanks for the most interesting discussion, please advise what the toe in would be in degrees.

 

                                                   Rgds Trevor Burnett ( TC 7196)


Norman Verona
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:21 am

Re: Restoring the original steering to a TC

Post by Norman Verona » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:46 am

Frank,

 

The old Dunlop alignment gauge uses angles and this may be why the angle is required.

 

Building a “square” around the car with 4 axle stands and two poles across the front and back with fine twine running down the centre line (or as near as you can get to a CL) of the car is the way the F1 cars are set up. You can then measure each side from the string to the tyre (tire) edge at the front and rear of the front wheel until you have the wheel ” further away from the twine at the front both sides. This will give you ” toe in and will be far more accurate than any optical gauge. Each time you adjust the track rod move the car back and forward to centre the front wheels, which will have twisted the rubber tyre when the adjustment is made. I have my axle stand a couple of feet in front and behind the car so I can do this without disturbing the strings.

 

The main advantage of building a box around the car is the wheels do not have to be dead straight ahead for accuracy.

 

[b][u]Norman Verona aka "Email Norman"[/u][/b]

11 Cherry close, Royston, S71 4LZ

Mob: 0741 9905 741

Web: www.frenchblat.com

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Frank Graham frankgraham@msn.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 12 September 2019 17:05 [b]To:[/b] Trevor Burnett trevor@safxmarine.co.za> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC

 

 

Trevor,

 

Castor and camber settings are angular measurements expressed in degrees between the steering and a vertical axis. Toe in is the relationship between the front wheels and it is the difference in linear measurements taken at the front and rear of the wheel rim. You can't use  a reference line like a vertical axis to express toe in as an angular measurement. I suppose that theoretically you could measure an angle between a line projected from the front wheels and the vehicle center line when the steering is straight ahead. However, since toe in is quite small the intersect would occur far in front of the vehicle and be impractical to measure. Its much easier to measure the difference in width across the vehicle at the front and rear edges of the wheel rims.   

 

Regards,

Frank 

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Trevor Burnett' trevor@safxmarine.co.za [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:38 AM [b]To:[/b] 'Stephen D Stierman' morgan7709@sbcglobal.net>; 'Bob Stein' Posti@aol.com>; 'CLIVE SHERRIFF' csherriff99@gmail.com> [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Restoring the original steering to a TC

 

 

Dear All,

 

                  Thanks for the most interesting discussion, please advise what the toe in would be in degrees.

 

                                                   Rgds Trevor Burnett ( TC 7196)


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