motor oil prices have gone nuts - re using oil

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Magen" wrote:

> > Posted by: "revmaaatin" mjearl4@... revmaaatin > Date: Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:48 pm ((PST)) > Valvoline 10-40 shears to 30wt in less than 1000 miles when used in a > KLR 650 engine, > OK, Rev . . > That being said, what is your thinking on on 0{or 5w}/50 SYNTHETIC oil??

Hi Ron, I am not sure I 'know' enough to comment?. shrug. I am flattered you would ask. slight blush. Some conclusions I have reached by reading DSN_KLR650: What I would trust what is the published KHI oil requirements based on OAT. That being said, when the oil reaches 30w due to shearing, it no longer is adequate to design requirements. It is also difficult to shift when the oil shears to 30 wt (or so it seems). Hence, my comment and re-publishing our data specifically from Valvoline 10/40 from three different bikes; same results =1000miles VAL 10/40 sheared to 30w. What I do believe is that the bike 'requires' 10w40 for optimum performance at specific OAT temp ranges; (I don't have an owners manual handy)... and 50wt is OK if the OAT is really high. Ow or 5w if it is really cold; as per KHI owner manual. I have used syn in my KLR's in the past as the 'winter' oil and have found there has been an increase in oil lost around the C/s seal as the OAT increased above 80F and certainly towards 90F (temps before the normal oil cycle was achieved.) It was a similar experience when riding partner 'KLRbugeater' arrived at my house losing a ~qt every 500 miles traveling from San Diego to central SD (he might have been flogging ze pig as well!) His counter shaft seal was peeing oil and the EPA wanted to file charges! We cleaned the seal area with Simple Green, changed to carbon based oil and the leak stopped.) Since that experience, I have used syn 10/40 only from Nov-May in South Dakota. This year I did not change the oil to syn; the bikes will not get the syn oil treatment, nor will they be ridden until 1 April. I do use syn in all my cars (as per the Ford/Chevy manuals) for extreme temp conditions. I figure several -10 to -40F days a year quals as extreme. as I suspect you use syn at least in the winter time as well. smile. Recently, I was listening to one of those 'money' talk shows {Clark Howard? world famous oil guru. cough. if money talk shows are to believed) and a question was asked about syn oil in the car's crankcase--A. That it was overkill = wasted of money unless you lived in extreme conditions, "such as -10 to -40F." I just smiled. I do believe Clark Howard had been reading the DSN_KLR650 list wisdom. revmaaatin.

[Jeffrey]

I agree...there should be a special SD designation for motor oil. San Diego and South Dakota(and LA,CA). This is the KLR Triangle. My non-smoker KLR with 34K mils on it mysteriously used .7 qts in less than 300 miles. (From 2.7 qts to 2 quarts) Then it blew up--doohickey side failure. It should not have blown...the oil didn't get low enough. The trip started above the sight glass. KLR Engine oil capacity: 2.6 quarts (2.5 L) if filter is removed; 2.3 quarts (2.2 L) if oil only is changed. So despite Mobil 1 15-50 wt, slight overfill, magnetic drain plug, meticulous maintenance, doohickey fine...she blew! I am back to using conventional Castrol GTX or Valvoline Premium. Mobil 1 doesn't work in the KLR Triangle. The new engine will not see Mobil 1. Maybe it just wore out. Maybe Mobil 1 isn't all it is cracked up to be. IN FACT, I REUSED THE UPGRADED OLD DOOHICKEY OUT OF THE OLD ENGINE IN THE NEW ENGINE BUT ADDED TORSION SPRING. In the middle of summer, I sometimes added a shooter of chain saw oil to the gas tank when I was running dino juice. But, this wasn't middle of the summer. I don't know if the shooters accomplished anything except depositing some carbon to the piston and valve surfaces. HOW MUCH OIL CAN YOU PUT IN THE KLR WITHOUT CAUSING PROBLEMS? 2.7, 2.8, or 2.9 QUARTS? J#3 I have used syn in my KLR's in the past as the 'winter' oil and have found there has been an increase in oil lost around the C/s seal as the OAT increased above 80F and certainly towards 90F (temps before the normal oil cycle was achieved.) It was a similar experience when riding partner 'KLRbugeater' arrived at my house losing a ~qt every 500 miles traveling from San Diego to central SD (he might have been flogging ze pig as well!) His counter shaft seal was peeing oil and the EPA wanted to file charges! We cleaned the seal area with Simple Green, changed to carbon based oil and the leak stopped.)

[Jeff Khoury]

Based upon my research, there is a fundamental difference between dino and synth oils. Dino oil (for instance, a 10W-40) starts off with a 10W oil to which VIs (Viscosity Improvers) are added to bring the viscosity up to spec at operating temperature. Now, motorcycles do shear the long polymer chains, but most of the viscosity loss in dino oils come from the "wearing out" or "loss" of these VIs. Synth oil, conversely, would be a 40W base oil that is specifically formulated NOT to thicken as much on cooling. They do this by creating polymer chains that are coiled when cold, and they "unwrap" when they heat up. So while I agree with the previous poster that a 10W-40 will have a longer crankcase life than a 5W-40, I would say that's probably only true for dino oils. Ergo, according to Science!, the synthetic should be the better choice - with a couple of caveats. Caveat 1: If you change your oil at a short interval (3,000 miles or less - in a car, 1500-2000 on a bike), it doesn't matter because the dino juice stays "fresh enough". Caveat 2: Synth oil allows for much larger ranges (0W-40 for instance) without adding tons of VIs, which have been known to be the origin of sludge and other bad stuff. I also concur with running a 5w-40 in the wintertime, or at least a 10W-40 because I got stuck with a bike that wouldn't start on a sub-freezing high-altitude morning when running 20w-50. I had to use so much ether I'm surprised I didn't blow the head right off the engine. The following year I went up there running Rotella T6 and the bike fired right up, no problem. Science! also says that if you want to run a dino oil, then running one with a lower range like 15w-40 would theoretically be better because less VIs are used in the formulation. BUT, its cold-pumping viscosity would be higher so you'd probably want to let it warm up a little more before you jump on and ride off to ensure that you've got enough flow to keep everything lubed. I've run synth exclusively in all my bikes, and the KLR's pushing 30 Kilomiles with nary a complaint. On this last oil change, I decided to try Delvac 15w-40 Dino oil to see how well it does. I'm about 1,500 miles into this oil change and so far, so good. I do tend to let it warm up longer than I would if I were running synth for the reasons I mentioned above.

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" wrote:

> So despite Mobil 1 15-50 wt, slight overfill, magnetic drain plug, meticulous maintenance, doohickey fine...she blew! > > I am back to using conventional Castrol GTX or Valvoline Premium. Mobil 1 doesn't work in the KLR Triangle. The new engine will not see Mobil 1. > > Maybe it just wore out. Maybe Mobil 1 isn't all it is cracked up to be. >

Jeffrey and others-- In consideration of your bike's failure, the known-unknown is what happened to your bike, how was it cared for before you bought it. The engine failure was unfortunate--and that is why you have to look at the previous owner(s) carefully before buying a used bike. sigh. It may have been a bad part. Once upon a time, the bike may have been run low on oil. KLR's go forever, and all of mine have had at least 3 previous owners. So far, so good. maybe. One bike had 20K miles and 3 previous owners, one had 970 miles, 3 previous owners. Both have been 'nice' bikes. You just never know when the ownership gets that deep; who flogged it, who babied it. Running them out of oil is never good. frown. So your bike is for sale... What do you tell someone when they ask you about your KLR and 'How did you treat it?' I rode it. I rode it in the rain. I rode in in the mud. I dropped it. I changed the oil often. I greased the steering head bearings. I greased the swing arm. I changed the dohickey. I had fun. You will to, if you get it dirty and change the gas often. revmaaatin.

[Jeffrey]

Bought brand new from Honda of Hollywood 6525 Santa Monica Blvd. Hollywood CA 90038 Phone: (323) 466-7191 Fax: (323) 372-3200

[mark ward]

DITO...........Below 70-75+ Fine between changes, Hit the freeway a while, Drinks oil. IF, I remeber right, there was "ANOUTHER OIL THREAD" oil tread, oil thread, (Applie eco here. LOL) And that was about them Chugging oil at higher speeds, and what to do about it. (If anything.)

--- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jeff Khoury wrote: From: Jeff Khoury Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Motor Oil Prices have gone Nuts - Re using oil To: "Jeffrey" Cc: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 4:14 PM I have an '09, and I've found that the only time it uses oil is when I'm flogging the hell out of it on the freeway. When I'm just commuting on it (splitting lanes @60MPH or less and surface streets) it really doesn't use any at all. If I jump on the freeway and flog it at 75-80MPH down to San Diego or something, it drinks oil like a sailor on shore leave. I'm learning to be more... umm... relaxed on the freeway on the KLR. I think that -I- am the source of the oil consumption problem, at least with my particular specimen. I'm also starting to ride the DL1000 on those longer trips when I know that I want to operate in the supralegal speed range, it's more suited to the task. The only problem is that it doesn't drink oil, it drinks gas. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dat brooklyn bum]

> So your bike is for sale... > What do you tell someone when they ask you about your KLR and > 'How did you treat it?'

One sentence: "I abused it like no one else can. Trust me, this bike is a survivor." da Vermonster