[dsn_klr650] torque wrench for valve job

[Bill Watson]

Jeff only one flaw in your thought process. The Thermo-Bob only raises coolant temperatures in the cooler months when it s 70, 60, 50F outside. But when it s hotter outside, a stock bike s thermostat is wide-open, trying to cool the bike, and so is a Thermo-Bobs. Either way you re at the mercy of the factory radiator sizing, so the coolant is the same temp either way. Thus one bike doesn t have hotter oil than the other. The oil in either case is around 190-240F depending on how the bike is being ridden. In the cooler months, that s when you do want the oil to be warmer than stock, because stock is pretty cold. In fact, cold enough to not boil out the water that gets in the oil during normal operation. In those cooler months, the oil might only make it into the 170 F range after a 30 mile ride. Each winter we see posts of people who see fogged oil sight glasses because of the moisture in their oil. Holding the entire cylinder at 195 with a Thermo-Bob helps get more heat into the oil than a stock bike with coolant being 120F at the bottom and 160 F at the top. Simple as that. To over generalize a little to keep this on track, a stock bike has oil temps of 170 in the winter and 220 in the summer, and a Thermo-Bob bike has oil temps of 190 in the winter and 220 in the summer. We re just raising the floor of operating temperature. Watt-man [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

Your oil temp chart specs a 60-65 degree day. Not what I would call "cold". -Jeff Khoury From: "Bill Watson" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:46:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea Jeff only one flaw in your thought process. The Thermo-Bob only raises coolant temperatures in the cooler months when it s 70, 60, 50F outside. But when it s hotter outside, a stock bike s thermostat is wide-open, trying to cool the bike, and so is a Thermo-Bobs. Either way you re at the mercy of the factory radiator sizing, so the coolant is the same temp either way. Thus one bike doesn t have hotter oil than the other. The oil in either case is around 190-240F depending on how the bike is being ridden. In the cooler months, that s when you do want the oil to be warmer than stock, because stock is pretty cold. In fact, cold enough to not boil out the water that gets in the oil during normal operation. In those cooler months, the oil might only make it into the 170 F range after a 30 mile ride. Each winter we see posts of people who see fogged oil sight glasses because of the moisture in their oil. Holding the entire cylinder at 195 with a Thermo-Bob helps get more heat into the oil than a stock bike with coolant being 120F at the bottom and 160 F at the top. Simple as that. To over generalize a little to keep this on track, a stock bike has oil temps of 170 in the winter and 220 in the summer, and a Thermo-Bob bike has oil temps of 190 in the winter and 220 in the summer. We re just raising the floor of operating temperature. Watt-man [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

I'd be interested to see an oil temp comparison on a hot day, say like 90+ ambient temperature for instance. I think that would be the "proof in the pudding". I think I'd be less skeptical (or critical so to speak) of the device if I were sure that it didn't raise oil temps on hot days. On cold days (I mean- really cold) I think it might be beneficial, but you don't want to sacrifice hot weather performance when damage DEFINITELY could occur to your engine. -Jeff Khoury From: "Jeff Khoury" To: "Bill Watson" Cc: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:30:51 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea Your oil temp chart specs a 60-65 degree day. Not what I would call "cold". -Jeff Khoury From: "Bill Watson" < gcurve2000@... > To: "DSN KLR650" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:46:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea Jeff only one flaw in your thought process. The Thermo-Bob only raises coolant temperatures in the cooler months when it s 70, 60, 50F outside. But when it s hotter outside, a stock bike s thermostat is wide-open, trying to cool the bike, and so is a Thermo-Bobs. Either way you re at the mercy of the factory radiator sizing, so the coolant is the same temp either way. Thus one bike doesn t have hotter oil than the other. The oil in either case is around 190-240F depending on how the bike is being ridden. In the cooler months, that s when you do want the oil to be warmer than stock, because stock is pretty cold. In fact, cold enough to not boil out the water that gets in the oil during normal operation. In those cooler months, the oil might only make it into the 170 F range after a 30 mile ride. Each winter we see posts of people who see fogged oil sight glasses because of the moisture in their oil. Holding the entire cylinder at 195 with a Thermo-Bob helps get more heat into the oil than a stock bike with coolant being 120F at the bottom and 160 F at the top. Simple as that. To over generalize a little to keep this on track, a stock bike has oil temps of 170 in the winter and 220 in the summer, and a Thermo-Bob bike has oil temps of 190 in the winter and 220 in the summer. We re just raising the floor of operating temperature. Watt-man [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Marc]

To me it just has more negatives then positives. Negatives- Cost More points of failure Low return value or unproven value Positives- Regulates temps more consistently For a bike I bought next to new (411 miles on it) for $3200, it just doesn't make sense. All the mods done have been proven useful- Ammo can pans, throttle lock, homemade raising links 16 t sprocket and tank bag. I still think about the 17t sprocket as I ride mostly on road, but the 16t just barely works off road. Just my thoughts on the subject. ________________________________ From: Jeff Khoury To: Bill Watson Cc: DSN KLR650 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 10:45:25 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea I'd be interested to see an oil temp comparison on a hot day, say like 90+ ambient temperature for instance. I think that would be the "proof in the pudding". I think I'd be less skeptical (or critical so to speak) of the device if I were sure that it didn't raise oil temps on hot days. On cold days (I mean- really cold) I think it might be beneficial, but you don't want to sacrifice hot weather performance when damage DEFINITELY could occur to your engine. -Jeff Khoury From: "Jeff Khoury" To: "Bill Watson" Cc: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:30:51 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea Your oil temp chart specs a 60-65 degree day. Not what I would call "cold". -Jeff Khoury From: "Bill Watson" < gcurve2000@... > To: "DSN KLR650" < DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:46:06 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Thermo-Bob and why I think it's a good idea Jeff only one flaw in your thought process. The Thermo-Bob only raises coolant temperatures in the cooler months when it s 70, 60, 50F outside. But when it s hotter outside, a stock bike s thermostat is wide-open, trying to cool the bike, and so is a Thermo-Bobs. Either way you re at the mercy of the factory radiator sizing, so the coolant is the same temp either way. Thus one bike doesn t have hotter oil than the other. The oil in either case is around 190-240F depending on how the bike is being ridden. In the cooler months, that s when you do want the oil to be warmer than stock, because stock is pretty cold. In fact, cold enough to not boil out the water that gets in the oil during normal operation. In those cooler months, the oil might only make it into the 170 F range after a 30 mile ride. Each winter we see posts of people who see fogged oil sight glasses because of the moisture in their oil. Holding the entire cylinder at 195 with a Thermo-Bob helps get more heat into the oil than a stock bike with coolant being 120F at the bottom and 160 F at the top. Simple as that. To over generalize a little to keep this on track, a stock bike has oil temps of 170 in the winter and 220 in the summer, and a Thermo-Bob bike has oil temps of 190 in the winter and 220 in the summer. We re just raising the floor of operating temperature. Watt-man [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Critchley]

If the extension is on the same axis as the socket, there is no problem, but if you put a snipe, (an extension) on the wrench handle, you just changed the whole ball game,. (The last bit is for the sports fans out there). DC -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Torque wrench for valve job Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:55:38 -0700 (PDT) From: mark ward To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, revmaaatin CAUTION! Many people use extensions, etc., with torque wrenchs, but it changes the outcome of the torque. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]