soapbox on, cellphones...

[Mike Frey]

A High Impact Polypropylene Copolymer with a Flex Modulus of about 200,000 psi would be the best polypropylene for the fenders. I suspect that they are already made from something close to that. Even the copolymers dramatically lose impact properties as temps approach -40 but most of us are not riding in those temperatures. Suspecting that most readers will not understand (or even care about) the above, here's another description: Polypropylene is one of the worst plastics when it comes to weathering and aging, which will fade them. The UV inhibitors are in the colorant, not the plastic. I have yet to see unpainted polypropylene of any color remain fade free after a year or two exposed to sunlight. Black and White are usually best, all other colors will fade faster. Jeff Khoury wrote:

As to the plastics fading: The old KLRs had polypropylene (e.g. Tupperware) plastics all over. Poly is a soft, flexible plastic made to bend rather than break, but UV takes its toll. The new KLRs have polypropylene fenders (front and rear), side panels and handguards. They will fade at approximately the same rate as the old ones. The radiator shrouds and upper cowling are ABS plastic which is harder, shinier and lasts longer in the sun. It also will crack easier than poly. Most sportbike fairings are ABS. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark ward" To: "Brad" , "DSN KLR650" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? All I "Hear" is the new style fender will snap right off with the slightest dump. Yet I have not seen ANY snapping, and one friend dropped his 08-09, 3 times in one day. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... AZxncQ--~E[/img] (some fun, sandy, muddy, Big puddles, hilly, trails. I felt Lucky I didn't) Before 08 all you would hear is how "UGLY" the KLR is, now all I "HEAR" is,.... Looks good BUT, it will fall apart, the fender will snap. Anyone, personaly KNOW, of lots of breakage?? What I'm wondering, do'es the plastic fade as fast? Mark (W. Mi.) [b]From:[/b] Brad [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thu, July 15, 2010 7:34:48 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks Brad

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-635398440 p {margin:0;}WOW!  And I though I was the king of too much technical information... I humbly bow to your materials engineering greatness. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Frey" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:12:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? A High Impact Polypropylene Copolymer with a Flex Modulus of about 200,000 psi would be the best polypropylene for the fenders. I suspect that they are already made from something close to that. Even the copolymers dramatically lose impact properties as temps approach -40 but most of us are not riding in those temperatures. Suspecting that most readers will not understand (or even care about) the above, here's another description: Polypropylene is one of the worst plastics when it comes to weathering and aging, which will fade them. The UV inhibitors are in the colorant, not the plastic. I have yet to see unpainted polypropylene of any color remain fade free after a year or two exposed to sunlight. Black and White are usually best, all other colors will fade faster. Jeff Khoury wrote: [quote]  As to the plastics fading: The old KLRs had polypropylene (e.g. Tupperware) plastics all over.  Poly is a soft, flexible plastic made to bend rather than break, but UV takes its toll. The new KLRs have polypropylene fenders (front and rear), side panels and handguards.  They will fade at approximately the same rate as the old ones.  The radiator shrouds and upper cowling are ABS plastic which is harder, shinier and lasts longer in the sun.  It also will crack easier than poly.  Most sportbike fairings are ABS. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark ward" To: "Brad" , "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ?   All I "Hear" is the new style fender will snap right off with the slightest dump.   Yet I have not seen ANY snapping, and one friend dropped his 08-09, 3 times in one day. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... RNETDg--~E[/img] (some fun, sandy, muddy, Big puddles, hilly, trails. I felt Lucky I didn't) Before 08 all you would hear is how "UGLY" the KLR is, now all I "HEAR" is,.... Looks good BUT, it will fall apart, the fender will snap.   Anyone, personaly KNOW,  of lots of breakage??   What I'm wondering, do'es the plastic fade as fast? Mark (W. Mi.)   [b]From:[/b] Brad [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thu, July 15, 2010 7:34:48 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ?   I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks Brad

[/quote]

[Mike Frey]

I got totally technical just to be a wise guy there. You seem to have some kind of working knowledge of plastics, so I was just showing off. My first two paragraphs would be more appropriate for an opening statement to a bunch of plastics engineers. Plastics has been my occupation since 1976. It was "just a job" at first, but I realized I could make a career out of it. I'm better known among my peers by being able to identify grades of plastic by setting them on fire and sniffing the fumes. The "burn and sniff" test. Jeff Khoury wrote:

WOW! And I though I was the king of too much technical information. .. I humbly bow to your materials engineering greatness. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Frey" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:12:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? A High Impact Polypropylene Copolymer with a Flex Modulus of about 200,000 psi would be the best polypropylene for the fenders. I suspect that they are already made from something close to that. Even the copolymers dramatically lose impact properties as temps approach -40 but most of us are not riding in those temperatures. Suspecting that most readers will not understand (or even care about) the above, here's another description: Polypropylene is one of the worst plastics when it comes to weathering and aging, which will fade them. The UV inhibitors are in the colorant, not the plastic. I have yet to see unpainted polypropylene of any color remain fade free after a year or two exposed to sunlight. Black and White are usually best, all other colors will fade faster. Jeff Khoury wrote: As to the plastics fading: The old KLRs had polypropylene (e.g. Tupperware) plastics all over. Poly is a soft, flexible plastic made to bend rather than break, but UV takes its toll. The new KLRs have polypropylene fenders (front and rear), side panels and handguards. They will fade at approximately the same rate as the old ones. The radiator shrouds and upper cowling are ABS plastic which is harder, shinier and lasts longer in the sun. It also will crack easier than poly. Most sportbike fairings are ABS. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark ward" To: "Brad" , "DSN KLR650" Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? All I "Hear" is the new style fender will snap right off with the slightest dump. Yet I have not seen ANY snapping, and one friend dropped his 08-09, 3 times in one day. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... RNETDg--~E[/img] (some fun, sandy, muddy, Big puddles, hilly, trails. I felt Lucky I didn't) Before 08 all you would hear is how "UGLY" the KLR is, now all I "HEAR" is,.... Looks good BUT, it will fall apart, the fender will snap. Anyone, personaly KNOW, of lots of breakage?? What I'm wondering, do'es the plastic fade as fast? Mark (W. Mi.) [b]From:[/b] Brad [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogro ups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thu, July 15, 2010 7:34:48 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks Brad

[Jeff Khoury]

#ygrps-yiv-2010205788 p {margin:0;}I guess "working knowledge" (quotes added) might be accurate.  As with most things, if something interests me, I read up on it.  I'm familiar with polypropylene from a seamanship perspective, having used it in the Coast Guard, and knowing its properties in comparison to Nylon, Kevlar and other various fibers.  For instance, poly is stiffer, slicker and more abrasion resistant than Nylon line, but if left out in the sun and salt it will deteriorate in nothing flat.  I wouldn't trust my life to poly line unless it was fresh off the spool and I did all the splicing myself.  On the other hand, double-braid nylon will last much longer in the sun, but it requires more skill and tools to make quality splices and whippings.  It can also be more dangerous in terms of synthetic-line snapback, and if you want to keep your legs, you'll be mindful of it. When I see a piece of plastic (don't ask me why) I look for the little stamp that says what kind it is.  All my knowledge is based upon observation of all the bits of plastic around me.  I do this with lots of stuff.  I have a touch of OCD when it comes to learning about stuff. I probably can't smell differences in burning plastic samples, but being in the IT business for a long time, I can listen to modems chatter and tell you what protocol they're using and the speed at which they connect.  -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Frey" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:52:42 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ?   I got totally technical just to be a wise guy there. You seem to have some kind of working knowledge of plastics, so I was just showing off. My first two paragraphs would be more appropriate for an opening statement to a bunch of plastics engineers. Plastics has been my occupation since 1976. It was "just a job" at first, but I realized I could make a career out of it. I'm better known among my peers by being able to identify grades of plastic by setting them on fire and sniffing the fumes. The "burn and sniff" test. Jeff Khoury wrote: [quote]  WOW!  And I though I was the king of too much technical information... I humbly bow to your materials engineering greatness. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Frey" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:12:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? A High Impact Polypropylene Copolymer with a Flex Modulus of about 200,000 psi would be the best polypropylene for the fenders. I suspect that they are already made from something close to that. Even the copolymers dramatically lose impact properties as temps approach -40 but most of us are not riding in those temperatures. Suspecting that most readers will not understand (or even care about) the above, here's another description: Polypropylene is one of the worst plastics when it comes to weathering and aging, which will fade them. The UV inhibitors are in the colorant, not the plastic. I have yet to see unpainted polypropylene of any color remain fade free after a year or two exposed to sunlight. Black and White are usually best, all other colors will fade faster. Jeff Khoury wrote:   As to the plastics fading: The old KLRs had polypropylene (e.g. Tupperware) plastics all over.  Poly is a soft, flexible plastic made to bend rather than break, but UV takes its toll. The new KLRs have polypropylene fenders (front and rear), side panels and handguards.  They will fade at approximately the same rate as the old ones.  The radiator shrouds and upper cowling are ABS plastic which is harder, shinier and lasts longer in the sun.  It also will crack easier than poly.  Most sportbike fairings are ABS. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark ward" To: "Brad" , "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ?   All I "Hear" is the new style fender will snap right off with the slightest dump.   Yet I have not seen ANY snapping, and one friend dropped his 08-09, 3 times in one day. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2 ... RNETDg--~E[/img] (some fun, sandy, muddy, Big puddles, hilly, trails. I felt Lucky I didn't) Before 08 all you would hear is how "UGLY" the KLR is, now all I "HEAR" is,.... Looks good BUT, it will fall apart, the fender will snap.   Anyone, personaly KNOW,  of lots of breakage??   What I'm wondering, do'es the plastic fade as fast? Mark (W. Mi.)   [b]From:[/b] Brad [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thu, July 15, 2010 7:34:48 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ?   I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks Brad

[/quote]

[dooden]

Oh ya... Back in the day I could whistle a 9600 baud connection... Dooden A15 Green Ape

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Khoury wrote: > > I guess "working knowledge" (quotes added) might be accurate. As with most things, if something interests me, I read up on it. I'm familiar with polypropylene from a seamanship perspective, having used it in the Coast Guard, and knowing its properties in comparison to Nylon, Kevlar and other various fibers. For instance, poly is stiffer, slicker and more abrasion resistant than Nylon line, but if left out in the sun and salt it will deteriorate in nothing flat. I wouldn't trust my life to poly line unless it was fresh off the spool and I did all the splicing myself. On the other hand, double-braid nylon will last much longer in the sun, but it requires more skill and tools to make quality splices and whippings. It can also be more dangerous in terms of synthetic-line snapback, and if you want to keep your legs, you'll be mindful of it. > > When I see a piece of plastic (don't ask me why) I look for the little stamp that says what kind it is. All my knowledge is based upon observation of all the bits of plastic around me. I do this with lots of stuff. I have a touch of OCD when it comes to learning about stuff. > > I probably can't smell differences in burning plastic samples, but being in the IT business for a long time, I can listen to modems chatter and tell you what protocol they're using and the speed at which they connect. > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Frey" > To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:52:42 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? > > > > > > > > I got totally technical just to be a wise guy there. You seem to have some kind of working knowledge of plastics, so I was just showing off. My first two paragraphs would be more appropriate for an opening statement to a bunch of plastics engineers. > > Plastics has been my occupation since 1976. It was "just a job" at first, but I realized I could make a career out of it. I'm better known among my peers by being able to identify grades of plastic by setting them on fire and sniffing the fumes. The "burn and sniff" test. > > > Jeff Khoury wrote: > > > > WOW! And I though I was the king of too much technical information... > > I humbly bow to your materials engineering greatness. > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Frey" > To: "Jeff Khoury" , "List KLR" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:12:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? > > A High Impact Polypropylene Copolymer with a Flex Modulus of about 200,000 psi would be the best polypropylene for the fenders. I suspect that they are already made from something close to that. > > Even the copolymers dramatically lose impact properties as temps approach -40 but most of us are not riding in those temperatures. > > Suspecting that most readers will not understand (or even care about) the above, here's another description: > > Polypropylene is one of the worst plastics when it comes to weathering and aging, which will fade them. The UV inhibitors are in the colorant, not the plastic. I have yet to see unpainted polypropylene of any color remain fade free after a year or two exposed to sunlight. Black and White are usually best, all other colors will fade faster. > > Jeff Khoury wrote: > > > > > > As to the plastics fading: > > The old KLRs had polypropylene (e.g. Tupperware) plastics all over. Poly is a soft, flexible plastic made to bend rather than break, but UV takes its toll. > > The new KLRs have polypropylene fenders (front and rear), side panels and handguards. They will fade at approximately the same rate as the old ones. The radiator shrouds and upper cowling are ABS plastic which is harder, shinier and lasts longer in the sun. It also will crack easier than poly. Most sportbike fairings are ABS. > > -Jeff Khoury > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mark ward" > To: "Brad" , "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:11:16 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? > > > > > > > All I "Hear" is the new style fender will snap right off with the slightest dump. > > Yet I have not seen ANY snapping, and one friend dropped his 08-09, 3 times in one day. > (some fun, sandy, muddy, Big puddles, hilly, trails. I felt Lucky I didn't) > Before 08 all you would hear is how "UGLY" the KLR is, now all I "HEAR" is,.... Looks good BUT, it will fall apart, the fender will snap. > > Anyone, personaly KNOW, of lots of breakage?? > > What I'm wondering, do'es the plastic fade as fast? > Mark (W. Mi.) > > > > > > From: Brad > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 7:34:48 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] 08 vs 07 ? > > > > > I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks > > Brad >

[Jud]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Brad" wrote:

> > I'am going to buy a KLR 650. My question is the new model the best one to get or stick with the tried and true 07 and previous. The upgrades on the 08 look nice but what about all that plastic? The groups opinions would be appreciated. Thanks > > > Brad >

I've got a '98. The '08 differs mainly in having better brakes (good) and more bodywork (bad, for my purposes, at least). With a DR650SE, you get less bodywork and better brakes. Just something to consider. The DR and the KLR both need a better seat; the Corbin for the DR is one of the best I have ever had. The DR needs a bigger tank. The KLR needs radiator protection, which costs about the same. I'm not trying to steer you away from a KLR. I really like mine. But I bought a DR, too, and I like it better.

[Jud]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, transalp1@... wrote:

> > a horn that will make a dog drop a t*rd in the road {really happened!}.

LOL. If I know dogs, that one was just waiting for an excuse.