valve shim history - update & corrections

[Steve Dyer]

List traffic is slow, so OK all you motor oil freaks... or as Nicholas Cage would have said in 'The Rock" (1996)... you motor oil SUPERfreaks... what are the major differences between 2-cycle motor oils and 4-cycle oils? I know the applications they're designed for, but what do we know about their differences from a manufacture/formulation standpoint? Today I ran out of the major brand 2-stroke 'chainsaw' oil that I use in the weed-eaters and the chainsaw. Dropped by the convenient local auto parts store in hopes they stocked this type of oil. Yes they did, but it was all some very cheap off-brands, and while the oil that winds up in these as well as our favorite brand bottles might very well come from the same vat, this stuff was just too el cheapo looking for me to happily dump it in my engines if there were alternatives. On the next aisle there was a closeout rack with some dusty old pint bottles of Mobil 1 synthetic 2-cycle motorcycle oil. It was about half off regular price, but despite its age I felt it might have been better stuff to begin with than the cheap brands so I picked up a couple pints. At the counter I told the sales guy this oil looked ancient and asked how old it might be. He just said 'ooo-old'. Bought it anyway but the whole episode got me to wondering what makes this oil different from 4-stroke oils, and once we're on 2-stroke oils what makes one better than the other, and what the hell is the difference between 2-stroke weedeater oil, chainsaw oil, motorcycle oil and marine engine oil? Steve in Norman, OK Stihl 031AV chainsaw Stihl string trimmer John Deere edger/trimmer

[Jeff Khoury]

As I understand it, 2-stroke oil is much lighter in viscosity, is of a different origin and has additives which reduce ashing when burned, hence that almost aphrodisiac smell it has. mmmmm. The differences between different types of 2-stroke oil? Dunno. Probably very little. I ran almost every type available through my old Enduro 125 without any ill-effects (I was a poor teenager, and you use what you can find). YMMV. My gut feeling is that they are simply labeled that way so people who don't understand the term "2-stroke" can go: "Look, it haz a pitcher uv uh chaynsaw on it, that's thuh raight stuff." -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dyer" To: "dsn klr650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 12:16:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR 2-cycle Oil List traffic is slow, so OK all you motor oil freaks... or as Nicholas Cage would have said in 'The Rock" (1996)... you motor oil SUPERfreaks... what are the major differences between 2-cycle motor oils and 4-cycle oils? I know the applications they're designed for, but what do we know about their differences from a manufacture/formulation standpoint? Today I ran out of the major brand 2-stroke 'chainsaw' oil that I use in the weed-eaters and the chainsaw. Dropped by the convenient local auto parts store in hopes they stocked this type of oil. Yes they did, but it was all some very cheap off-brands, and while the oil that winds up in these as well as our favorite brand bottles might very well come from the same vat, this stuff was just too el cheapo looking for me to happily dump it in my engines if there were alternatives. On the next aisle there was a closeout rack with some dusty old pint bottles of Mobil 1 synthetic 2-cycle motorcycle oil. It was about half off regular price, but despite its age I felt it might have been better stuff to begin with than the cheap brands so I picked up a couple pints. At the counter I told the sales guy this oil looked ancient and asked how old it might be. He just said 'ooo-old'. Bought it anyway but the whole episode got me to wondering what makes this oil different from 4-stroke oils, and once we're on 2-stroke oils what makes one better than the other, and what the hell is the difference between 2-stroke weedeater oil, chainsaw oil, motorcycle oil and marine engine oil? Steve in Norman, OK Stihl 031AV chainsaw Stihl string trimmer John Deere edger/trimmer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[The Reverend]

While I am sure that any regular motor oil would work as a lubricant in a 2-stroke engine, it's mainly an issue with deposits. You can't have the engine ash up from the regular oil, thus you use the 2-stroke oil. I'm sure there are more in-depth explanations and differences, but that's what I understand is the main one. I wonder if oil will deteriorate if it sits for a long time in a sealed, light-blocking container. I can't think of what would go bad, but I'm no chemist. -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Dyer ancient and asked how old it might be. He just said 'ooo-old'. Bought it anyway but the whole episode got me to wondering what makes this oil different from 4-stroke oils, and once we're on 2-stroke oils what makes one better than the other, and what the hell is the difference between 2-stroke weedeater oil, chainsaw oil, motorcycle oil and marine engine oil?

[roncriswell@sbcglobal.net]

I used to run a mosquito killer ratio in my old Hodaka of 20 to 1. Kllied bugs like crazy .... Hallehuaahh ... or what ever it is called, The only thing green then was our teeth. A buddy ... not known for being particular about oil and being inclined to be called ...rather .... . ahhh ... cheap. He loaned me some of his magic mix when we were out riding in a serous dirt / mud situation. Ahh ... this was before the really good oils we have today. He may have mixed Amway or hair cream in his somewhere around 35 to 1 mix. Maybe even recycled oil. Ahh ... the Hodaka did not like his mix .... er.... with about 2 inches of mud on the cylinder / head. It was the only bike I have ever seized. I have not been cheap since and I have tried to seek more expensive friends. Mud isn't good for cooling. Criswell

On Aug 9, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Jeff Khoury wrote: > As I understand it, 2-stroke oil is much lighter in viscosity, is > of a different origin and has additives which reduce ashing when > burned, hence that almost aphrodisiac smell it has. mmmmm. > > The differences between different types of 2-stroke oil? Dunno. > Probably very little. I ran almost every type available through my > old Enduro 125 without any ill-effects (I was a poor teenager, and > you use what you can find). YMMV. > > My gut feeling is that they are simply labeled that way so people > who don't understand the term "2-stroke" can go: "Look, it haz a > pitcher uv uh chaynsaw on it, that's thuh raight stuff." > > -Jeff Khoury > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Dyer" > To: "dsn klr650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 12:16:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR 2-cycle Oil > > List traffic is slow, so OK all you motor oil freaks... or as > Nicholas Cage > would have said in 'The Rock" (1996)... you motor oil > SUPERfreaks... what > are the major differences between 2-cycle motor oils and 4-cycle > oils? I > know the applications they're designed for, but what do we know > about their > differences from a manufacture/formulation standpoint? > > Today I ran out of the major brand 2-stroke 'chainsaw' oil that I > use in the > weed-eaters and the chainsaw. Dropped by the convenient local auto > parts > store in hopes they stocked this type of oil. Yes they did, but it > was all > some very cheap off-brands, and while the oil that winds up in > these as well > as our favorite brand bottles might very well come from the same > vat, this > stuff was just too el cheapo looking for me to happily dump it in > my engines > if there were alternatives. On the next aisle there was a closeout > rack > with some dusty old pint bottles of Mobil 1 synthetic 2-cycle > motorcycle > oil. It was about half off regular price, but despite its age I > felt it > might have been better stuff to begin with than the cheap brands so > I picked > up a couple pints. At the counter I told the sales guy this oil looked > ancient and asked how old it might be. He just said 'ooo-old'. Bought > it anyway but the whole episode got me to wondering what makes this > oil > different from 4-stroke oils, and once we're on 2-stroke oils what > makes one > better than the other, and what the hell is the difference between > 2-stroke > weedeater oil, chainsaw oil, motorcycle oil and marine engine oil? > > Steve in Norman, OK > Stihl 031AV chainsaw > Stihl string trimmer > John Deere edger/trimmer > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick McCauley]

My A17 has 19,400 miles on it. The valves were checked at 600miles, 5,000 miles, again around 12,000 miles, and recently at a little over 18,000 miles. The intake shims are still the original ones from the factory. The exhaust shims were changed at the last (18,000) miles point, even though they were still within specs. They were changed to bring the gap back up to the maximum setting. I would like to back of checking intervals too, but my paranoid nature won't let me. Rick A17

--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Spike55 wrote: From: Spike55 Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Valve Shim History - Update & Corrections To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 6:32 PM While preparing for my 'Sunset Tour', where I pick a day and ride off into the sunset (but actually start that morning so I can really get somewhere), I'm checking my valve clearances and I also discovered my 'basement' notes from previous clearance jobs. I bought a new 2006 KLR in late April 2006. It now has 17,500+ miles and seems to be my primary bike versus the '81 BMW R100, which gets about 3,000-4,000 miles of use per year too. First thing you'll notice is that these clearance numbers aren't 'tight' - I'm an imperfect human. I'm shooting for 0.15-0.25mm on the exhausts and 0.10-0.20mm on the intakes. First clearance check was July 2, 2007 @ 5,047 miles: old-L-Ex 255mm shim w/ 0.178mm clearance new-L-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.228mm clearance - not actually measured old-R-Ex 255mm shim w/ 0.178mm clearance new-R-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.228mm clearance - not actually measures old-L-In 255mm shim w/ 0.102mm clearance new-L-In 245mm shim w/ 0.202mm clearance - not actually measured old-R-In 260mm shim w/ 0.102mm clearance new-R-In 250mm shim w/ 0.202mm clearance - not actually measured Second clearance check was March 22, 2008 @ 8,721 miles and I bought a metric feller gauge to check the final clearances (not initial clearances): old-L-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.203mm clearance new-L-Ex 245mm shim w/ 0.220mm clearance - metric feeler gauge old-R-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.229mm clearance new-R-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.210mm clearance - metric feeler gauge old-L-In 245mm shim w/ 0.178mm clearance new-L-In 245mm shim w/ 0.170mm clearance - metric feeler gauge old-R-In 250mm shim w/ 0.203mm clearnace new-R-In 250mm shim w/ 0.170mm clearance - metric feeler gauge Third clearance check was August 9, 2009 @ 17,500+ miles: old-L-Ex 245mm shim w/ 0.190mm clearance - metric feeler gauge new-L-Ex 245mm shim - will update when done old-R-Ex 250mm shim w/ 0.200mm clearance - metric feeler gauge new-R-Ex 245mm shim - will update when done old-L-In 245mm shim w/ 0.190mm clearance - metric feeler gauge new-L-In 245mm shim - will update when done old-R-In 250mm shim w/ 0.190mm clearance - metric feeler gauge new-R-In 250mm shim - will update when done Everything seems to be heading in the right direction and no surprises. I should be able to go on an extended maintenance schedule after this one. Don R100, A6F [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[fasteddiecopeman]

One of my LAST 2 strokes was a Sachs Hercules 125 Enduro bike (also had a professional Sachs-Dolmar chain saw), and their recommendation for BOTH, was to use Shell Rotella diesel engine oil at a 25-1 ratio. Smoked like hell, but NEVER fouled plugs. My .02$. Ed ... and the exhaust kept 'skeeters away TOO!

[Cindy & Wayne Burner]

I am running the one for all mix right now. The oil comes in a small plastic tube, and is premixed for all mixes of two strokes. One tube per gallon of gas is the same mix for 15:1 or 50:1. Any body else using this type of snake oil. It sure cuts down on the amount of premix cans with different ratios hanging around getting stale :>) Stihl chainsaw, weedwacker, and even the Yamaha Razz scooter don't seem to mind. Wayne(rice)Burner