nklr-drivel

[Chris Norloff]

I use Method #1, with the end of the safety wire bent down onto the clip so it doesn't catch on anything. Works great. best, Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "benhua4" Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:15:22 -0000

>Hi Chris, >Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended using >safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how do you >do it? > >Method #1, like this: >http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 > >Method #2, like this: >http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 > >Or neither of the above? > >I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it coming of >at 70mph, know what I mean? > >Best regards, >Bob L > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Norloff" >wrote: >> >> Such a pain. Glad you got it fixed okay. I've used the clip-type >links for many years and many miles. After losing one clip a long >time ago I either safety-wire the clip on or clean it and put a smear >of silicon sealant on it. Works great. >> >> Chris > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

[Chris Norloff]

The safety wire is thinner than the thickness of the chain link, so it never touches the sprockets. best, Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "revmaaatin" Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:44:03 -0000

>--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" > wrote: >> >> I use method 1. >> Ed >> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "benhua4" wrote: >> > >> > Hi Chris, >> > Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended >using >> > safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how do >you >> > do it? >> > >> > Method #1, like this: >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 >> > >> > Method #2, like this: >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 >> > >> > Or neither of the above? >> > >> > I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it >coming of >> > at 70mph, know what I mean? >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Bob L > >I am surprised at either #1 or #2 as the school solution. Won't the >wire rub on the c/s and rear sproket as the chain turns...which would >be counter productive. Method #3, (sorry on picture) would be .020 >safety wire in a race track pattern in place of the clip. If >not .020 than .030--understanding I have no do in the fight--I >had 'Fred' rivit my chain to length when I bought it. Method #4 is >to just RTV the clip in place--which I have never done either...but >numerous posters here endorse it as a workable solution. > >As for the discussion of breaking the chain in the field, etal., and >needing a repair...I would imagine if that happens, which the >likelyhood is left of remote on a properly maintained bike, but if it >did occur, I would most likey have more problems than a broken >chain. shrug. Helo extraction comes to mind.... > >Others may have more anecdotal evidence/data to suggest otherwise, >but a broken-riveted chain is not very high on my 'concern' list. > >And of course, cough, the cleaning lube of choice for a riveted chain >is that wiskey/delta-40 stuff. Then again, I think K270 tires are >great! shrug-h. It works for me. > >What is not being discussed here is 'why' are the clips leaving the >chain. Believeing that most folks will get the clips installed going >the correct direction, and as Zack suggested, pressure againt the >retainer clip--1)It makes me wonder if the clips are the correct >master link for the application. 2)If master links are really a good >idea in the long run for use with O/X ring chains. Judging from the >comments and problems that folks register here about their >masterlinks, wnen I bought a new chain, I chose the riveted link >method. > >just musing on a cold, windy day in the Dakota hitherlands. > >revmaaatin. loving my wiskey/delta-40 chain cleaner > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

[traderpro2003]

Why anyone would take such a risk with either of these procedures-- short of using it to evade capture getting out of Iraq--is BEYOND me. Are you people also riding chainsaws for weekend excitement?? I'd use my last $300 to secure a proper chain including the tools or have someone else do it (a lot of shops will do what Fred does for free/nominal $...if you buy from them). Don't you think your life is worth more? If you disagree then consider the person's life you might kill or seriously injure if you lose control. Sorry, short of an emergency, I think this is a very bad, rookie mistake. As far as #2 and drilling a whole...if you go that far, you can afford the proper tool. - Brian Who just loves revmaatin-isms..thinks it's better bound by the rules of nature rather than your own chain! ps - There is a 47T available to combine with the 14T for those going to Everest.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote: > > > > 15,000 miles ago, I put one of those 'temporarily' on my chain > while I waited for the > > proper chain tool to install a rivet-type master link. I finally > did gulp and fork out the > > bucks for the DiD chain tool as well as a couple of spare rivet- > type master links, but never > > got around to installing the new master link to replace > the "temporary" one. > > > > Yesterday I did my checkout of my bike in the hotel parking lot > prior to the 400 mile ride > > home and... the clip was gone. > > > > Lesson: It's a lot easier to change a link in the privacy of your > own garage with your whole > > toolkit available than it is to change it in a hotel parking lot > using a hard bag under the > > skidplate as your "lift" and a pair of borrowed channel-loks to > substitute for the correct > > wrenches (I was missing a 13mm for my chain adjusters, since I had > to loosen the back > > wheel to get enough slack to deal with the chain, and I was missing > whatever big-a** > > wrench is needed to hold the DiD tool while you crank on it). > > > > Oh, and the DiD chain tool is sweet, if expensive. Just so ya know. > It did a yeoman job of > > exactly pressing on the side plate and mushrooming the rivet heads > in exactly the DiD- > > specified dimensions. The directions are in Japanese, but it wasn't > difficult to figure out > > how it all worked based only on the illustrations and a general > knowledge of how it all fit > > together. > > > > BTW, my chain is still in great shape, and has never had a lick > of "chain lube" on it. It was > > WD-40 all the way until I put the Scott-oiler on it, and Scott- oil > then ATF since then. It > > looks like I'll get another 15,000 miles out of it if the sprockets > hold up... > > > > - Eric G > > > Eric and others- > An alternate for the tool-box challenged--(I have a chain breaker, > but no rivet tool, yet) to all this chain- > breaking/riveting/masterlink stuff...I ordered my DID X-Ring chain > (108 links for the 16/46 sprocket set) from 'Fred' and he riveted up > the chain on his bench...same price, etc. INSTALLAtION: I pulled > the swing arm, removed the old chain; start to finish, both new > sprockets, chain, swingarm in and out -- in less than an hour. > Having Fred rivet up the new chain was the best tool I never bought. > shrug. maybe I will need to buy one later. shrug. > > The 16/46 is the moral equivalent of the 15/43, and when swapped to a > 14T/CS, what an absolute joy to ride off road--Look MA! No clutch > slipping/stalling/dropping the bike in a glacial moriane field. > Similar results can be had with the 45T rear...the 46T was sent by a > friend in Australia, as JT-sprokets will not make the 46T available > in the US. Fellow poster, Jeff Saline tried to get JT-s to sell him > a 46T here, but n0-o-o-o-o-o, no in the US. shrug. > > I was skeptical at first, swapping the rear to a 46, etc, would make > that much difference offroad--wow!, but now that I have ~5Ksmiles on > this combination, it really works well for my gravel roads/trails > environment here in the Dakota's. Swapping back to the 16T for a > 200/400 mile road trip, is only a 15 minute job. THE DOWN SIDE: Not > wanting to ride at more than 5,500rpms for a long stretch ( < rpms > = increased oil consumption), the 14/46 limits the IGS to ~65mph. > You might say, that the 14/46 is a 'rev' limiter--and maybe that is a > good thing. > revmaaatin. >

[grufrude]

FWIW, I'm just an old fart who rides old school bikes ('06KLR; '84 BMW RS, '69CB750, '75 CB400F) and who used to roadrace the 750 and a CB500 back in the mid-'70s in WEERA's endurance races up here in the inter-mountain west. We used clips on our chains and safety-wired them the way Chris explains. We used clips because we needed to change gearing to match track conditions and juggling sprocket combinations worked best with clips and sometimes extra links and MORE clips. We never had a race failure due to clips. My 750 is still in service and still running a clipped chain (even though it came stock with a riveted one back in May of 1969!). Sometimes KLRistas want to run different gearing on long trips and sometimes that involves switching out sprockets that need different length chains. Clips (with safety wire) have thir place, IMO - FWIW, YMMV, KumBayah, Blah Blah Hugh Kenny Cheyenne WY --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Norloff" wrote:

> > The safety wire is thinner than the thickness of the chain link, so

it never touches the sprockets.

> > best, > Chris > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "revmaaatin" > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:44:03 -0000 > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" > > wrote: > >> > >> I use method 1. > >> Ed > >> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "benhua4" wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Chris, > >> > Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended > >using > >> > safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how

do

> >you > >> > do it? > >> > > >> > Method #1, like this: > >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 > >> > > >> > Method #2, like this: > >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 > >> > > >> > Or neither of the above? > >> > > >> > I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it > >coming of > >> > at 70mph, know what I mean? > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > Bob L > > > >I am surprised at either #1 or #2 as the school solution. Won't

the

> >wire rub on the c/s and rear sproket as the chain turns...which

would

> >be counter productive. Method #3, (sorry on picture) would

be .020

> >safety wire in a race track pattern in place of the clip. If > >not .020 than .030--understanding I have no do in the fight--I > >had 'Fred' rivit my chain to length when I bought it. Method #4

is

> >to just RTV the clip in place--which I have never done

either...but

> >numerous posters here endorse it as a workable solution. > > > >As for the discussion of breaking the chain in the field, etal.,

and

> >needing a repair...I would imagine if that happens, which the > >likelyhood is left of remote on a properly maintained bike, but if

it

> >did occur, I would most likey have more problems than a broken > >chain. shrug. Helo extraction comes to mind.... >

[ocpianoman]

Lots easier to swap out sprockets, remove the rear wheel, add or remove links to try different gearing, cheaper than buying a chain breaker/riveter and if I tried I might be able to think of some more reasons. How about tradition? Not valid I know. I've never had a clip-on master link come apart on me ever, and I didn't safety wire, RTV or do anything except be darn sure it was on there right. Just lucky I guess. Most of my riding has been on the street, with some fire roads thrown in periodically.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, jokerloco9@... wrote: > > I'm kind of lost on this - why would anyone want a clip on master link, with > all of the associated problems of it coming apart. > > Rivet the damn thing on and forget it! > > Jeff A20 > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[ocpianoman]

Standard chains without O- or X-rings are still available. That technology is not dead yet. Obsolete, maybe, but still sufficient for mid to small size bikes. Big thumpers are hard on chains so it may not be sufficient for a KLR. But a cheapo DID chain with clip-on master link is currently propelling my GS450 around without issue.

> I think the thought of the need for an easily removable chain dates

to many

> years ago, when there was no such thing as an o-ring chain and high

quality

> chains, and people actually needed to take the chain off frequently

to clean it

> and soak it in oil. That died in what, the early 1980's?? > > Jeff A20 > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's

hottest

> products. >

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[traderpro2003]

I've changed sprockets on trips, changed chains on trips, tripped on sprockets and tripped out at strange chains of events...but never have I had to change my chain to change a sprocket. The chain adjusters allow for this. In fact, with a centerstand, I can hot swap a 14 to 15T in under 10 minutes. I've never tried going to a 16T because I'm always loaded down. So relevant to the KLR, what possible combo requires a chain change? 16T/47 or a 14/42? Who would want these? Perhaps there is a time and place for wiring chains...just nothing comes to mind wrt the KLR. I've heard other people doing something similar (with drag racing bikes no less!) using sliders and embedding it in hi-temp rtv. But considering I don't have any of these special needs and nor would the average KLR rider, I'll stick with the manufacturer's [rivet] requirement. Brian

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "grufrude" wrote: > > FWIW, I'm just an old fart who rides old school bikes ('06KLR; '84 > BMW RS, '69CB750, '75 CB400F) and who used to roadrace the 750 and a > CB500 back in the mid-'70s in WEERA's endurance races up here in the > inter-mountain west. We used clips on our chains and safety-wired > them the way Chris explains. We used clips because we needed to > change gearing to match track conditions and juggling sprocket > combinations worked best with clips and sometimes extra links and > MORE clips. We never had a race failure due to clips. My 750 is > still in service and still running a clipped chain (even though it > came stock with a riveted one back in May of 1969!). > > Sometimes KLRistas want to run different gearing on long trips and > sometimes that involves switching out sprockets that need different > length chains. Clips (with safety wire) have thir place, IMO - FWIW, > YMMV, KumBayah, Blah Blah > > Hugh Kenny > Cheyenne WY > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Norloff" > wrote: > > > > The safety wire is thinner than the thickness of the chain link, so > it never touches the sprockets. > > > > best, > > Chris > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > > From: "revmaaatin" > > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:44:03 -0000 > > > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "fasteddiecopeman" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> I use method 1. > > >> Ed > > >> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "benhua4" wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Hi Chris, > > >> > Several times, on motorcycle forums, people have recommended > > >using > > >> > safety wire to fix the Master Link clip in place. Exactly how > do > > >you > > >> > do it? > > >> > > > >> > Method #1, like this: > > >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573436 > > >> > > > >> > Method #2, like this: > > >> > http://www.pbase.com/benhua/image/89573434 > > >> > > > >> > Or neither of the above? > > >> > > > >> > I'd like to use the clip on master link but I don't want it > > >coming of > > >> > at 70mph, know what I mean? > > >> > > > >> > Best regards, > > >> > Bob L > > > > > >I am surprised at either #1 or #2 as the school solution. Won't > the > > >wire rub on the c/s and rear sproket as the chain turns...which > would > > >be counter productive. Method #3, (sorry on picture) would > be .020 > > >safety wire in a race track pattern in place of the clip. If > > >not .020 than .030--understanding I have no do in the fight--I > > >had 'Fred' rivit my chain to length when I bought it. Method #4 > is > > >to just RTV the clip in place--which I have never done > either...but > > >numerous posters here endorse it as a workable solution. > > > > > >As for the discussion of breaking the chain in the field, etal., > and > > >needing a repair...I would imagine if that happens, which the > > >likelyhood is left of remote on a properly maintained bike, but if > it > > >did occur, I would most likey have more problems than a broken > > >chain. shrug. Helo extraction comes to mind.... > > >

[Jeff Saline]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:03:41 -0000 "traderpro2003" writes:

> I've changed sprockets on trips, changed chains on trips, tripped on > sprockets and tripped out at strange chains of events...but never > have I had to change my chain to change a sprocket. The chain > adjusters allow for this. In fact, with a centerstand, I can hot > swap a 14 to 15T in under 10 minutes. I've never tried going to a > 16T because I'm always loaded down. So relevant to the KLR, what > possible combo requires a chain change? 16T/47 or a 14/42? Who > would want these? > > Perhaps there is a time and place for wiring chains...just nothing > comes to mind wrt the KLR. I've heard other people doing something > > similar (with drag racing bikes no less!) using sliders and > embedding > it in hi-temp rtv. But considering I don't have any of these > special > needs and nor would the average KLR rider, I'll stick with the > manufacturer's [rivet] requirement. > > Brian

<><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Brian, A few years ago I did my research and fact finding on sprocket ratios etc that work on a KLR650. I finally decided for me the best set up is a 46 tooth rear with a 14 or 16 tooth front. With the 16 tooth on I'm about 0.3% lower than the stock ratio. With the 14 tooth on I'm about 15% lower. To make that work I needed a 108 link chain. But that does work for both sprockets. This year I've ridden entirely with the 14 tooth installed including a 3 day trip last June that was about 900 smiles of mostly dirt roads and tracks. That combo slows me a bit when pavement riding in the hills but I'm still going plenty fast and past quite a few bikes and other road users in the passing zones. Off pavement the 14/46 combo is amazing. Other guys that have changed to a 45 or 46 tooth rear sprocket have made numerous positive remarks about the gearing. The one down side to the 46 tooth rear is it's not available by JT Sprockets in the states. I had to get my first ones from Australia. But it was worth it. If I was doing it today and didn't have an easy way to make that happen I'd get with Fred at www.arrowheadmotorsports.com and ask him for a 45 tooth rear and a 108 link chain. Clipped or riveted wouldn't matter much to me. But I use the clip as it allows me one more option. And I do like to have options. Oh, I have been in some places, more than once but never the same place twice, that I sure would have taken a 47 tooth rear if I'd of had the option. I suppose a 13 tooth front would have been nice too. If the fastest you can safely go is under 20mph that would be a wonderful option to have. Sometimes slow is really good. : ) Best, Jeff Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[E.L. Green]

> >What is not being discussed here is 'why' are the clips leaving the > >chain. Believeing that most folks will get the clips installed going > >the correct direction, and as Zack suggested, pressure againt the > >retainer clip--1)It makes me wonder if the clips are the correct > >master link for the application. 2)If master links are really a good > >idea in the long run for use with O/X ring chains. Judging from the

My clip stayed in place for roughly 15,000 miles before it went AWOL. My personal suspicion is that wear in the link allowed the side plate to back off from the clip, and eventually a twig or other piece of roadside debris encountered while off-roading took the clip away with it. I'm not sure how that could happen -- perhaps when I was backing up the bike to get out of a bad place or something, when the clip could get snagged while the chain was going backwards -- (shrug). All I know is that it happened, and would not have happened with a riveted link. _E

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "grufrude" wrote:

> FWIW, I'm just an old fart who rides old school bikes ('06KLR; '84 > BMW RS, '69CB750, '75 CB400F) and who used to roadrace the 750 and a > CB500 back in the mid-'70s in WEERA's endurance races up here in the > inter-mountain west. We used clips on our chains and safety-wired > them the way Chris explains. We used clips because we needed to > swap

The deal is that you were in a race environment, and the clip was removed, inspected, and re-installed on a regular basis. I was in a regular road-riding environment where, 15,000 miles after being put on the bike, the clip went AWOL. In the mid 70's on those race bikes you probably replaced your chain after a couple thousand miles because in those pre-o- ring days they were shot after that time. Nowdays... (shrug). Different environment, dude. Different environment. Given that I have the tool to deal with a rivet-type masterlink, and given that it actually requires less time, trouble, and fuss to install a rivet-type masterlink than to install a clip- type masterlink using this tool (the tool handles pretty much everything, you just assemble it and crank until it hits bottom to press on the plate, then back off, assemble a different way and crank twice on each pin until it hits bottom to mushroom the rivets), and given the permanence of the installation (as in, 15,000 miles on a chain that has never been removed from the bike, only gearing changes being between 14 and 15 tooth front sprockets), it only makes sense to just do it right the first time and be done with all the inspecting and making sure the clip is still there and making sure the *safety wire* is still there (yes over time it can corrode or flex or otherwise go AWOL), etc... just do it right, and don't worry, hmm? I just wish I'd followed my advice 15,000 miles ago, or I wouldn't have been doing the job in a hotel parking lot using a side case under the skid plate and a borrowed pair of channel-lok's....