nklr apple?

[Jeff Saline]

Bill, Listers, This morning I had the opportunity to do a short 35 mile temperature check in cooler temperatures on my KLR. Ambient temp was 22 degrees and speed was about 50-55 most of the time. I was on back roads and for those that know a bit about the Black Hills I was on Nemo Road and Hwy 44 back toward town. The temperature gage on the bike stayed at 170 degrees. Once I got back into town the ambient temp warmed up to 30 and the bike temp then read 180. I also used my Gr8 Design electric vest and wore some Widder Electric gloves. But the gloves weren't hooked up. They should have been. : ) Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Watson]

Jeff, that sure makes sense... you were on the thermostat most all the time. If you had removed the t-stat, (based on your and my other tests), it looks like you would have been running only about 135 degree water. Thank goodness for the stat. You must have gone slow enough in town that you actually came off the stat - interesting. I'm on the verge of publishing the year's worth of testing on my bike - seeing how much cooling improvement is generated by the "Patman mod", and other tests such as removing the front fender, fan on or off, different coolants, different speeds and so on. I'll publish it before Christmas. In the meantime, the 195 degree stat will be going in before Thanksgiving (it's still warm here). Thanks for the numbers. Bill Watson Phoenix Jeff Saline wrote: Bill, Listers, This morning I had the opportunity to do a short 35 mile temperature check in cooler temperatures on my KLR. Ambient temp was 22 degrees and speed was about 50-55 most of the time. I was on back roads and for those that know a bit about the Black Hills I was on Nemo Road and Hwy 44 back toward town. The temperature gage on the bike stayed at 170 degrees. Once I got back into town the ambient temp warmed up to 30 and the bike temp then read 180. I also used my Gr8 Design electric vest and wore some Widder Electric gloves. But the gloves weren't hooked up. They should have been. : ) Best, Jeff Saline --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jim]

What are the optimum coolant and oil temperatures for the KLR650 engine, or any spark-ignition engine? Could the KLR be overcooled for cold weather operation? Jim A17

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Saline wrote: > > Bill, Listers, > > This morning I had the opportunity to do a short 35 mile temperature > check in cooler temperatures on my KLR. Ambient temp was 22 degrees and > speed was about 50-55 most of the time. I was on back roads and for > those that know a bit about the Black Hills I was on Nemo Road and Hwy 44 > back toward town. The temperature gage on the bike stayed at 170 > degrees. Once I got back into town the ambient temp warmed up to 30 and > the bike temp then read 180. > > I also used my Gr8 Design electric vest and wore some Widder Electric > gloves. But the gloves weren't hooked up. They should have been. : ) > > Best, > > Jeff Saline > ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal > Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org > The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota > 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Bill Watson]

Jim wrote: What are the optimum coolant and oil temperatures for the KLR650 engine, or any spark-ignition engine? Could the KLR be overcooled for cold weather operation? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This could probably start a thread like an oil or tire question will, but I'll keep it short here (I'll go long in the writeup to where this data is sourced)... I would argue that 200-210 F would be a nice temp goal for the coolant, and of course you want the oil to get above boiling (212 F) to rid itself of water vapor that seeps in (as it is a product of combustion). Why Kawasaki puts a 170 'stat in these bikes escapes me, because they have such a small radiator that they run 210, 220, 230 all summer. If Kaw thought those temps were too high they would have sized the cooling system appropriately IMO. From the factory, the bikes run a bit cold in the winter, and a bit hot in the summer. With a 200 degree stat and a larger radiator, it would run 200 degrees year round, which I would argue would be better than the factory setup. Yes you can overcool, as short trips in particular do not allow the water to boil out of the oil. With the factory setup, it takes around 15 miles to finally get the oil to steady state. Having a colder stat clearly would not help this situation. And to think - that's my SHORT answer... Bill Watson Phoenix --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Chris Krok]

> From: Bill Watson > Subject: Re: KLR Cooler Weather Temp Check > I would argue that 200-210 F would be a nice temp goal for the coolant, > and of course you want the oil to get above boiling (212 F) to > rid itself of water vapor that seeps in (as it is a product of combustion).

The oil doesn't need to be above 212 to drive off the water (although it would happen nearly immediately at that temperature). Water will actually vaporize from the oil as long as the engine temperature is above ambient, but the higher it gets, the faster the water vaporizes. The vapor pressure of water is already over half an atmosphere at 180 F, so quite a bit happens in those last 32 degrees. I'd stick closer to the 195-200 range, but that's just a personal preference. My bike tends to run hot, and I've been trying to work out a second (small) radiator installation. (We don't get "Phoenix" hot around here, but I always seem to find myself riding through the desert in July.) Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok Explosion Dynamics Laboratory John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125

[PauL M. Bober]

yeah ... I think we need to see about finding someone to make a radiator with more cooling capacity for those of us who ride in the desert here in Phx. I ride in rush hour traffic on my A9. When it is stop and go traffic and the temp is over 118f man the lil' scooter does get 'hot'! Oh .. got to buy a new "X"-ring chain for my A9. anyone know the number of links I need for the 520 chain? PauL - lost and confused in AZ. -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Chris Krok Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:04 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: KLR Cooler Weather Temp Check

> From: Bill Watson > Subject: Re: KLR Cooler Weather Temp Check > I would argue that 200-210 F would be a nice temp goal for the coolant, > and of course you want the oil to get above boiling (212 F) to > rid itself of water vapor that seeps in (as it is a product of

combustion). The oil doesn't need to be above 212 to drive off the water (although it would happen nearly immediately at that temperature). Water will actually vaporize from the oil as long as the engine temperature is above ambient, but the higher it gets, the faster the water vaporizes. The vapor pressure of water is already over half an atmosphere at 180 F, so quite a bit happens in those last 32 degrees. I'd stick closer to the 195-200 range, but that's just a personal preference. My bike tends to run hot, and I've been trying to work out a second (small) radiator installation. (We don't get "Phoenix" hot around here, but I always seem to find myself riding through the desert in July.) Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok Explosion Dynamics Laboratory John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links

[J Fortner]

On 10/25/05, PauL M. Bober wrote:

> yeah ... I think we need to see about finding someone to make a radiator > with more cooling capacity for those of us who ride in the desert here in > Phx. I ride in rush hour traffic on my A9. When it is stop and go traffic > and the temp is over 118f man the lil' scooter does get 'hot'! > > Oh .. got to buy a new "X"-ring chain for my A9. anyone know the number of > links I need for the 520 chain?

106 w/stock gearing

[Bill Watson]

Krokko, We're in a similar area of discussion. Agreed that water can be removed from the oil below 212 but we agree that warmer is better on that front and it does seem common to see many authorities placing the operating range with a "2" for a first digit. Considering we're not doing 80 mile one-way drives at steady state for the most part, but instead short rides where the oil is WAY BELOW steady state in the first place, that's why I tend to bump up that steady state goal a tick as well. Either way, you're saying 195-200 and I'm saying 210-220. It appears we both agree that 160, 170, 180 are not 'optimum', and KLR riders who go 8 miles to work never make it above that with the stock setup. From a "summer" perspective (and switching gears to a water discussion here), the small cooling system surprises me too. On my daily commute (not aggressive at all, nice steady state 60 mph freeway riding) I'm finding the bike seems to steady-state around 115 degrees above ambient. (I typically design systems for 70 over ambient). Thus on a 100 degree day, my KLR water temp is around 215F when everything stabilizes. Ride faster or get stuck in traffic and it goes up. Not a lot of margin in my opinion. For that reason I've been playing with different ideas just to see their contribution. The big three: Distilled Water and corrosion inhibiter, the "patman mod" (blocking bypass flow around the left side of the radiator) and moving the front fender down low. Those three together were worth 23 percent... in that configuration the bike stabilizes at 89 degrees over ambient, which is 26 degrees lower. Not bad for skipping the "complexity" of a second radiator, which I was considering originally as well. Anyway, I'll cover all this in the writeup (and the contributions of each) but that's the basic finding of the testing. Bill Watson Phoenix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The oil doesn't need to be above 212 to drive off the water (although it would happen nearly immediately at that temperature). Water will actually vaporize from the oil as long as the engine temperature is above ambient, but the higher it gets, the faster the water vaporizes. The vapor pressure of water is already over half an atmosphere at 180 F, so quite a bit happens in those last 32 degrees. I'd stick closer to the 195-200 range, but that's just a personal preference. My bike tends to run hot, and I've been trying to work out a second (small) radiator installation. (We don't get "Phoenix" hot around here, but I always seem to find myself riding through the desert in July.) Krokko --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[a14@att.net]

> For that reason I've been playing with different ideas just to see their > contribution. The big three: Distilled Water and corrosion inhibiter, the > "patman mod" (blocking bypass flow around the left side of the radiator) and > moving the front fender down low. Those three together were worth 23 percent... > in that configuration the bike stabilizes at 89 degrees over ambient, which is > 26 degrees lower. Not bad for skipping the "complexity" of a second radiator, > which I was considering originally as well. > > Anyway, I'll cover all this in the writeup (and the contributions of each) but > that's the basic finding of the testing. > > Bill Watson > Phoenix > >

Have you considered a custom made thicker (maybe an inch) radiator? Walt

[clint lee jin yew]

a thicker radiator would be nice , true, but in the case of the klr, the forks will hit the top it it were thicker forward, and if it was thicker rearwards , the fan would hit the tank. In my opinion, what the klr needs is a radiator which spans from the left panel to the right , it should be wide. like the f650 or yamaha xt design.. but that would bring new implecations. we'd have to work with a new design for the mudguard up front. it should be of a sttep angle so that the mudguard wont hit the radiator , and should be high enough so that mud wont clog the front wheel. we see this also in the f650gs and the yamaha xt my guess its up to the duides who are good at fabrication here. clint

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, a14@a... wrote: > > > For that reason I've been playing with different ideas just to see their > > contribution. The big three: Distilled Water and corrosion inhibiter, the > > "patman mod" (blocking bypass flow around the left side of the radiator) and > > moving the front fender down low. Those three together were worth 23 percent... > > in that configuration the bike stabilizes at 89 degrees over ambient, which is > > 26 degrees lower. Not bad for skipping the "complexity" of a second radiator, > > which I was considering originally as well. > > > > Anyway, I'll cover all this in the writeup (and the contributions of each) but > > that's the basic finding of the testing. > > > > Bill Watson > > Phoenix > > > > > > Have you considered a custom made thicker (maybe an inch) radiator? > > Walt >