anodize your aluminum kaw parts greenl

DSN_KLR650
Devon
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 7:13 pm

suspension help please

Post by Devon » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:35 pm

judjonzz@... wrote:
>There is a progressive 400-450 spring available, as well as straight-weight >springs from other sources (Devon can tell you) in 25 or 50 lb increments. >
I had the 350-450 progressive spring. Liked it, but a straight-rate 400 is better. With a rising-rate linkage, a progressive spring is not the optimal setup.
>Some bottoming is inevitable even with the 560 spring. >
Bottoming is only greatly affected by the spring, if there's too much sag and you're riding too low in the stroke. Bottoming is a DAMPING problem, but a progressive spring is a decent bandaid and they sell lots of them. You're riding beyond where a progressive spring is going to help. I would get the straight rate spring that gives you the proper sag numbers, probably a 450, and then change the oil in the shock to 10w suspension fluid (not fork oil) and get it recharged. Have a suspension shop do it if you're uncomfortable, or don't have access to 175psi nitrogen. Nothing you can do to the KLR will allow you to keep up with a proper woods bike ridden hard by a skilled, experienced rider, unless they're waiting up for you or enjoy a reasonable pace. But you CAN make the KLR work sell offroad. http://216.173.6.149/klr/modded_klr.jpg You don't need the fork swap (stock fork works OK with cartridge emulators), but the new shock was a revelation. Devon

darkwing327
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 4:19 pm

suspension help please

Post by darkwing327 » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Speaking of too tight when you put the caps back on, I had a buddy of mine who is a motorcycle technician here in town do these installs and he did comment when taking the caps off the fork tubes at he was surprised at how little pressure there was, both in removal and install of the new springs. Any thoughts there. I know this is not an accurate measurement but should you be able to push the cap back on with just hand pressure or would you really have to strain to push the springs back in? Darren

Keith Saltzer
Posts: 1071
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:03 pm

suspension help please

Post by Keith Saltzer » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:50 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "darkwing327" wrote:
> Hello Everyone, > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or
kills
> me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think
eveyone
> aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to
solve
> a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems
like
> the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month.
Never
> noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing
the
> front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put
heavier
> fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let
me
> know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed
to
> notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with
emphasis
> on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the
problem.
> One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to
position
> 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down
hard.
> My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp
edges
> on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks
and
> check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if
this
> is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the
rear
> spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring
back
> in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from
bottoming
> out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy,
is
> there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much in advance. > Darren
How about starting with the basics. Is your stock shock even working at all? I had my used bike for all of about 2000 miles (only 12,000 total) when I realized that the shock seal was blown and I had no oil in it. After rebuilding it myself with a new seal, some good fluid, and a 175 psi nitrogen charge, it was a whole different world on that thing. Although I feel it's short comings also, I am so happy with it now that I just plan on getting the straight rate spring and then playing with the few adjustments on it till it's as good as I can get it. MrMoose A8 (Barbie and Ken special)

Edmund Ho
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 8:34 am

suspension help please

Post by Edmund Ho » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:03 pm

I know on my track bikes, when the front pushes, I notch up the preload on the rear to turn it in faster. I had a VTR1000 i think u guys call them superhawks there. well notoriusly under sprung front.. so down hills the front would compress and not rebound enough so eventually the suspension was all out of travel forcing it to run wide. Fixed with heavier springs and gold valves to allow the oil to move a bit faster. sound familiar? Not knowing your weight and the weight these springs are designed for doesnt help much, but assuming you have it correct.?? try giving it more preload on the front too and adjust rebound to compensate. ur heavier oil should of slowed the compression and rebound down a little bit. Im not overly familiar with KLR gear, so i stand to be corrected if ive gone way off track. Anyway, when all else fails I return to standard and change one item at a time, and I keep a log book of changes and comments. HTH ED
On 10/06/2004, at 8:49 AM, Keith Saltzer wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "darkwing327" > wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a >> suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or > kills >> me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think > eveyone >> aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to > solve >> a problem. >> >> My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading >> but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the >> mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems > like >> the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges >> in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the >> front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but >> that's how it feels). >> >> 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. > Never >> noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing > the >> front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and >> installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear >> spring. Here's how it went. >> >> 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put > heavier >> fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound >> right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on >> top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let > me >> know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? >> Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? >> >> 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. >> >> 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with >> the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed > to >> notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after >> further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year >> progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with > emphasis >> on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing >> too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the > problem. >> One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to > position >> 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year >> until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The >> front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down > hard. >> My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in >> the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they >> agreed it was squirrely. >> >> 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp > edges >> on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. >> >> Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification >> from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks > and >> check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear >> spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if > this >> is the problem (I think this is it). >> >> Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me >> know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? >> >> What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the > rear >> spring? >> >> If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring > back >> in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from > bottoming >> out, or does that even hurt it? >> >> Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, > is >> there something in between that you have found that works? >> >> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks much in advance. >> Darren > > How about starting with the basics. Is your stock shock even working > at all? I had my used bike for all of about 2000 miles (only 12,000 > total) when I realized that the shock seal was blown and I had no oil > in it. After rebuilding it myself with a new seal, some good fluid, > and a 175 psi nitrogen charge, it was a whole different world on that > thing. Although I feel it's short comings also, I am so happy with > it now that I just plan on getting the straight rate spring and then > playing with the few adjustments on it till it's as good as I can get > it. > > MrMoose > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ > courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

Jim Hubbard
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:22 pm

suspension help please

Post by Jim Hubbard » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:48 pm

OK, might as well toss in my $.02, so here goes: My guess is that you've got 2 problems. First of all, and most importantly, the fork oil is too heavy or there's too much of it. Either one can cause damping to be so excessive that the front end can't track a series of quick bumps like the washboard stuff you often see on downhill gravel roads. Since the suspension can't follow the bumps, the front tire just skips across the top of them, obviously losing traction and bouncing off in all sorts of directions in the process. Being pointed downhill (forks compressed more than usual) only exaggerates the problem. Second problem might be tires. When new and round, tires mostly go where you point them, but as they get flat in the center, they tend to twitch around when following ruts and grooves. This, coupled with the bouncing front end, would make the bike nearly uncontrollable on rutted, washboard downhill gravel roads. That's my theory anyway. Good luck! Jim
> -----Original Message----- > From: darkwing327 [mailto:darkwing327@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 1:06 PM > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Suspension help please > > > Hello Everyone, > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or kills > me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think eveyone > aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to solve > a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems like > the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto ridges > in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself, but > that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month. Never > noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing the > front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive rear > spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put heavier > fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let me > know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed with > the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed to > notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with emphasis > on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was forcing > too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the problem. > One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to position > 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down hard. > My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike in > the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp edges > on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks and > check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if this > is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let me > know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the rear > spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring back > in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from bottoming > out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy, is > there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much in advance. > Darren > > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List > FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

rm@richardmay.net
Posts: 509
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:30 pm

suspension help please

Post by rm@richardmay.net » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:01 pm

On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Jim Hubbard wrote:
>My guess is that you've got 2 problems. First of all, and most >importantly, the fork oil is too heavy or there's too much of it.
Yeah, 15W was a decent band-aid back when I was running the softie stock front springs. Now that I'm running a set of stronger Progressive Mystery Springs (not intended for a KLR), 15W was too stiff. So I went to a 25/75 blend of 15W fork oil and Dexron ATF (respectively). Works quite well. I'd dump the 15W and go with pure Dexron or else a 10W fork oil and see what happens. RM

Arden Kysely
Posts: 1578
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:18 am

suspension help please

Post by Arden Kysely » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:42 am

Were you braking or off the throttle when the KLR threw you? KLRs are squirrely in gravel (worse in sand), and love to push the front end. Suspension changes might help, but the best solution I've found is to use the throttle at the first sign of trouble. However...I used that technique when going into some deep sand last year, found that there were some crazy ruts below the sand, and got spit off despite my best efforts with the throttle. __Arden --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "darkwing327" wrote:
> Hello Everyone, > > I call upon all the KLR gods on the forum to help me solve a > suspension problem (I think) before the bike drives me crazy or
kills
> me. This may be long winded, however bear with me as I think
eveyone
> aprreciates too much info rather than not enough when trying to
solve
> a problem. > > My bike likes to try and pitch me off not so much when off roading > but when driving to the trails on the gravel road. Going up the > mountain isn't bad but coming down is downright scary. It seems
like
> the bike is pushing the front tire too hard as it grabs onto
ridges
> in the road quite aggressively and then loses all traction and the > front tire slides out(I know that statement contradicts itself,
but
> that's how it feels). > > 2002 A16 KLR-Bought new, rode it bone stock for about a month.
Never
> noticed this problem. With the style of riding that I was doing
the
> front and rear suspension was bottoming out so I ordered and > installed LR progressive front springs and the 560 progressive
rear
> spring. Here's how it went. > > 1. Installed front springs, cut down the spacer to 2" and put
heavier
> fork oil in (sorry, can't remember what weight, does 15w sound > right?). Also can't remember if we put the tighter wound coils on > top or bottom. I will dissasemble to inspect if someone could let
me
> know if the tighter would coils should be on the top or bottom? > Should the spacer be on the top or bottom of the springs? > > 2. Installed rear progressive 560 spring with no apparent problems. > > 3. From here we went out riding and I think I was so impressed
with
> the ability to ride without bottoming the suspension that I failed
to
> notice the instability at first. Coming down the fire roads after > further rides I felt increasingly uncomfortable as the year > progressed. I had a couple of other guys ride the bike with
emphasis
> on the front end and they told me it felt like the bike was
forcing
> too much weight forward and it was the back end causing the
problem.
> One of the fellows adjusted the rebound dampening for me to
position
> 2 and the stability felt much better. I rode like this for a year > until it finally was able to pitch me off on a downhill road. The > front tire grabbed a ridge, turned sideways and threw me down
hard.
> My KLR had hurt me more on a graded road more than any dirt bike
in
> the bush ever had. I had some more guys ride it again and they > agreed it was squirrely. > > 4. Next-new tires. These felt better, but only until the sharp
edges
> on the knobs were worn off and then back to the same feeling. > > Here is where I am at today. I am thinking once I get verification > from some knowledgeable listers I will take apart the front forks
and
> check the assembly to make sure it's correct. I have a stock rear > spring coming from Devon already to swap in and check to see if
this
> is the problem (I think this is it). > > Has anybody done the same spring swaps as I have and can you let
me
> know if you have found any wierd handling characteristics? > > What, if anything could I have screwed up on the install of the
rear
> spring? > > If the 560 spring is the problem and I put the stock rear spring
back
> in, is there any other way to keep the rear suspension from
bottoming
> out, or does that even hurt it? > > Lastly, if the stock spring is too light and the 560 is too heavy,
is
> there something in between that you have found that works? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much in advance. > Darren

Ron Newman
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:24 am

anodize your aluminum kaw parts greenl

Post by Ron Newman » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:07 am

Ya I know :) You should see my new system, my wife thinks it some weird science experiment gone haywire. It uses a chiller unit from an Hosp OR room and other unlikely objects all hooked together. Ron
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelley Kinser" To: "Ron Newman" ; DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Anodize your aluminum kaw parts Greenl > With those coolers and stuff it looks kind of > like a meth lab! > > Kelley........... > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ >

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