nklr heading to biloxi.

[RichardM]

This isn't as interesting as I'd hoped it would be. I just got the results back from my first oil analysis. I sent off a sample of Mobil 1 15W-50 car oil with 3k miles to be tested by OAI, the company that does the testing to support Spamsoil's super-long drain intervals. I believe that the filter already had 2k miles on it to begin with. This oil saw a lot of abuse. I have a 16T front sprocket and I slipped the clutch a lot on two different off-road rides with this oil, the second of which was the hell-ride that CalPosse Russell led on July 5th. This oil was also subjected to several 5-10 mile long wide-open-throttle freeway blasts in the desert heat with my stock- jetted bike. Water: :) Barium: 0ppm Phosphorus: 805ppm

[Ted Palmer]

RichardM wrote:

> This isn't as interesting as I'd hoped it would be. > > I just got the results back from my first oil analysis. I sent off a > sample of Mobil 1 15W-50 car oil with 3k miles to be tested by OAI, > the company that does the testing to support Spamsoil's super-long > drain intervals. I believe that the filter already had 2k miles on > it to begin with.

[...] I found it all quite interesting, especially about the viscosity loss. It looks like Mobil 1 isn't as durable as it is made out to be. How much did the oil analysis cost? Mister_T Melbourne Australia

[TLrydr@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/6/01 7:21:20 AM EST, tedp@... writes: << I found it all quite interesting, especially about the viscosity loss. It looks like Mobil 1 isn't as durable as it is made out to be. >> Your regular dyno sauce is all used up at 800 miles, Unless you use the castrol GTX Then its ok for 900 miles The viscosity of a petroleum based oil 20-50wt after 3000 miles is like 5-10wt IMHOTIS Mike

[Ted Palmer]

TLrydr@... wrote: [...]

> Your regular dyno sauce is all used up at 800 miles, > Unless you use the castrol GTX Then its ok for 900 miles > The viscosity of a petroleum based oil 20-50wt after 3000 miles is like 5-10wt

I wonder how aussie-spec Mobil 1 5W-50 would stand up. I'm trying it out in my car for a while. I guess I might have to go looking through the phone book for some places that do oil analysis. Mister_T Melbourne Australia

[KLR650@houston.rr.com]

That's not really a fair test. Tell us where you got it done and I'll try = it with Mobil 1 motorcycle oil after 3000 miles and post it. Gerret A15 "Mj lnir"

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Ted Palmer wrote: > RichardM wrote: > > > This isn't as interesting as I'd hoped it would be. > > > > I just got the results back from my first oil analysis. I sent off a > > sample of Mobil 1 15W-50 car oil with 3k miles to be tested by OAI, > > the company that does the testing to support Spamsoil's super-long > > drain intervals. I believe that the filter already had 2k miles on > > it to begin with. > [...] > > I found it all quite interesting, especially about the viscosity loss. > It looks like Mobil 1 isn't as durable as it is made out to be. > > How much did the oil analysis cost? > > Mister_T > Melbourne Australia

[Brad Davis]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., KLR650@h... wrote:

> That's not really a fair test. Tell us where you got it done and

I'll try =

> it with Mobil 1 motorcycle oil after 3000 miles and post it. > > Gerret > A15 "Mj lnir"

Mobil 1 is Mobil 1 I bet.

[RichardM]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Ted Palmer wrote:

>I found it all quite interesting, especially about the viscosity >loss. It looks like Mobil 1 isn't as durable as it is made out to be.

I'd be curious to see how an ordinary dino oil would hold up. It's difficult to get and apples-to-apples comparison because the operating conditions of my bike constantly change. My weekday commute is very consistent but my weekend riding is all over the map (literally).

>How much did the oil analysis cost?

I think the postage pre-paid kit was US$19, but freakin' Spamsoil hit me for about $6 to ship it to me. I'm going to see if there's another way of getting these things (local Spamsoil dealer). RM

[racingreplicas@orwell.net]

Interesting stuff Richard. Is there any way you can compare say Castrol 20w50 (which I use but change every 1000/1300 miles) and a "motorcycle specific" oil? Ed Windsor

----- Original Message ----- From: "RichardM" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 3:31 AM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Long - KLR650 Mobil 1 15W-50 Oil Analysis Results > This isn't as interesting as I'd hoped it would be. > > I just got the results back from my first oil analysis. I sent off a > sample of Mobil 1 15W-50 car oil with 3k miles to be tested by OAI, > the company that does the testing to support Spamsoil's super-long > drain intervals. I believe that the filter already had 2k miles on > it to begin with. > > This oil saw a lot of abuse. I have a 16T front sprocket and I > slipped the clutch a lot on two different off-road rides with this > oil, the second of which was the hell-ride that CalPosse Russell led > on July 5th. This oil was also subjected to several 5-10 mile long > wide-open-throttle freeway blasts in the desert heat with my stock- > jetted bike. > > Water: there shouldn't be a condensation buiding up in the oil. > > Fuel: contamination unless the choke is stuck on or something. > > Viscosity@40C: (Not tested) > Viscosity@100C: 13.3cSt that out in the summary text. They claim that an acceptable range > for a xxW-50 weight oil is 16.3 to 21.9. Mobil's spec sheets lists > this oil at 18.0. For comparison's sake, their dino 10W-30 is rated > 10.3 and their 10w-40 is 14.1. This number alone makes a strong > argument that 3k miles was too long for this oil. On the other hand, > 13.3 isn't *too* far out of whack when you consider that many people > run 30-weight oil in their bikes to begin with. > > % Solids: Trace number up quite high. > > Soot: NA mandated retarded injection timing soot-load their oil much more > rapidly. The lower emissions pleases the green enviro-whackos but is > quite hard on oil. Are you listening Mr. Beef Stu and your Manly-Man > pickup-truck? Change your oil and find an injection-timing hack. > > % Oxidation: 18.9 acceptable. I'm wondering just what exactly does 100% mean and what > happens when you exceed it? Seems a little arbitrary. Anyway, high > oxidation can be an indicator of overheated oil and it actually > increases viscosity. > > % Nitration: 17.1 nitration can cause sludging and varnish formation. Engines with > poor crankcase vapor scavenging (ie. clogged PCV) tend to drive up > this number. > > TBN: 5.6 for diesels and not so important for gasoline engines. This figure > denotes the oil's ability to neutralize crankcase acids. TBN is > depleted with use. A stand-alone TBN number is not very useful. > Knowing TBN depletion from its original spec is better. I can't find > a TBN figure for Mobil 1 so I might call Mobil tech services sometime > this week. Either way, 5.6 seems a little high for a non CH-4 > (latest 4-stroke diesel spec) oil so I'm not complaining. > > TAN: NA gear oils and such. They generally start off acidic and become even > more acidic with use. > > Spectrographic Analysis > ----------------------- > > Iron: 29ppm > Chromium: 1ppm > Lead: 2ppm > Copper: 24ppm > Tin: 2ppm > Aluminum: 42ppm elevated. They didn't mention the acceptable limit. I guess I'll > call the oil analysis people, too. > > Nickel: 0ppm > Silver: 0ppm > Manganese: 6ppm > Silicon: 11ppm > Boron: 52ppm > Moron: 9000ppm analysis. They said that moron levels are elevated and that I should > change riders immediately. > > Sodium: 4ppm > Magnesium: 958ppm > Calcium: 898ppm :) > Barium: 0ppm > Phosphorus: 805ppm moto-specific oils supposedly have so much more of. The tests I've > seen don't bear this out. 805ppm seems very normal. > > Zinc: 104ppm investigation, even though the summary text didn't mention it. > Normal zinc levels are 700-1200ppm. This is another anti-wear > additive similar to the above. It comes into play when the oil's > lubricating film has been completely broken down and metal-to-metal > contact is imminent. Does it deplete when these conditions are > encountered? Need to ask about this, too. > > Molybdenum: 6ppm in aircraft piston engine oils. Zinc can foul sparkplugs. It also > poisons catastrophic pervertors. > > Titanium: 0ppm > > Vanadium: 0ppm > > Cadmium: 0ppm > > That's all I have. I expected worse. I think this oil might have > been OK if all 3k miles had been on the street. Off-roading seems to > drive up consumption so it makes sense that it elevates the oil temps > and shortens the effective life. > > As for the Emgo oil filter, I see no reason to believe that 5k miles > was too long for this filter. I plan to ask OAI what numbers tend to > elevate when a clogged oil filter bypasses. > > I'll probably use a seat-of-the-pants oil change interval. Longer on > the street and less in the dirt, and I won't be changing out the oil > filter more often than 3k. Assuming I can afford to do the LA B-to-V > run, I might just send that oil off for another analysis, just for > gits and shiggles. > > RM > > PS. I'm not a tribological expert, or even a chemist, nor do I have > any letters after my name. The above commentary is based on > information I've picked up from various sources and sifted through > the bullshit filter a few times. My $.02, YMMV, and the usual > disclaimers apply. > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[RichardM]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., racingreplicas@o... wrote:

>Interesting stuff Richard. Is there any way you can compare say >Castrol 20w50 (which I use but change every 1000/1300 miles) and >a "motorcycle specific" oil?

Well, I can try a different oil every time. But as I said, it's difficult to get a fair comparison because my operating conditions constantly change. I might test a cheap non-synth car oil for 3k miles and have it turn out better than the Mobil 1 because I didn't off-road much with it. Or because I didn't ride in the desert heat. I did the test just to see how Mobil 1 would hold up in [what was for me] a worst-case scenario. Given the way the oil looked and how badly it smelled, I expected worse. If you're trying to select an oil, it's probably best that you run your choice of oils in your bike for your desired intervals then have them tested. If your usage patterns are constant, you can get a pretty good comparison. If you blast around in the desert for three full weekends in a row on just one of the oils, you can probably expect to see some discrepancies in the numbers. RM

[gyb@sprynet.com]

>Interesting stuff Richard. Is there any way you can compare say >Castrol 20w50 (which I use but change every 1000/1300 miles) and >a "motorcycle specific" oil?

I think it's cheaper to buy back issues of MCN... They did an oil comparison last year. About 30 different brands/types were compared. That included motorcycle specific, auto synthetic and petroleum based oils. I thought everybody read MCN. Kids these days... The conclusions seemed to be mixed at best. IIRC (and I don't have those issues here, so this is really from memory) some synthetics scored very well, but so did some petroleum based oils. Better than some synthetics in important categories. So, MY conclusion (not surprisingly, they did not give a definitive answer to the question: is one type/brand better than the rest) was that if you buy an oil that scored decently in the tests and change it at regular intervals, your bike will should not see any significant difference. Mobil 1 products (there was a motorcycle specific one and an regular auto one) scored in the higher range in most categories. Probably a good bet if you want a synthetic oil. I use Castrol GTX, and I remember it was surprising to see the petroleum based oil score better in many categories than the Castrol synthetics. Definitely doesn't seem to be worth the extra money for the synthetics in this case. I really don't see what the big deal is anyway. Most people in the US don't own their bikes long enough to see the difference between one oil or the next in their tenure (assuming regular oil and filter changes) and probably the buyer of their bike wont either. The ones I know that do keep their bikes that long, never obsess about it as much as the ones that don't... Go figure. YOilMV, Gustavo