Front wheel bearings

[Steve S]

The nut needs to be torqued. If the bearing begins to seize as you tighten then the spacer between the bearings is either missing or is too short. You can adjust the length of the spacer with shims, usually in sizes ranging from .001" to .010". Do not shave the nut unless you have the equipment to do a very accurate job! With the original bearing setup there will usually be a slight amount of play and this is ok. With a tapered bearing conversion there will be virtually no play, as this is adjusted out with the aforementioned shims. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 4/9/2014 7:17 PM, bdavispics@yahoo.com wrote:

I have a question regarding the front wheel bearings. I've read Jiim Buell's article on the TC Front End and used it when setting up my TA's front end back in the Fall. Since then I've probably driven less than 200 miles. However, a couple of days ago I took hold of the top of the front wheels and gave them a firm shake. I could hear a click with each forward and backward motion. It was slightly more pronounced on the Off side than the other but it bothered me and I removed the wheel and rechecked the castle nut today. I don't remember leaving it loose enough (with split pin removed) to easily turn with my fingers but that is what I found. I can tighten it and remove the click so I know that's where the movement/clicking is coming from. Buell says .005 gap there is about right. I've also read lots of 'how-to-set-wheel-bearings' on the internet but the question in my mind is just how loose can these be and still be okay. Will .005 clearance allow you to hear a click when the wheel is shaken? Or Should I be removing a slight amount at the back of the castle nut to allow it to pull up 'finger tight' in order to put the split pin in ...but without being obviously loose? Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Bill - Nashville, TN

[Peter Roberts]

As Steve said: With a tapered bearing conversion there will be virtually no play, as this is adjusted out with the aforementioned shims." But be prepared to be very, very, patient fitting and re-fitting the shims until it is tight.   _Peter in CT TC0604

[Bob Grunau]

Attachments :

[*][url=http://mg-tabc.com/forum/files/archive-attachments/\MG Parts doc-76904.doc]MG Parts doc-76904.doc[/url]

I agree with Steve use a correct length spacer and a tight stub axle nut! . Honestly, I don't know HOW MANY TIMES we have to say the stub axle nuts must be TIGHT!!  This strengthens the stub axle assembly. Far too many stub axles have cracked and broken because people still tighten the stub axle nuts "finger tight ". This is WRONG and is simply NOT good enough.   Jim Buell article is referenced, read Second Edition, page 24, says "you must torque up the stub axle nut tight etc" . With a very small note saying "A special thanks to Bob Grunau for the information used here " .   PLEASE Torque to 75-85 ft-lbs with 5/8" BSF original nuts or 125 ft-lbs with my 3/4" NF inserts. Yes this requires shimming or replacing the bearing spacer.   Don't know why I am saying this so LOUDLY!! And so often.  Stupid on my part as I make and sell replacement stub axle inserts and can repair and exchange cracked steering knuckles. See attached list. Loose nuts, busted stub axles, more sales!!   But for safety sake, please tighten stub axle nuts .   Bob Grunau 150 Pinewood Trail Mississauga, Ontario Canada, L5G-2L1 905-274-4136 grunau.garage@sympatico.ca   

[quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, April 09, 2014 11:05 PM [b]To:[/b] bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings   The nut needs to be torqued.  If the bearing begins to seize as you tighten then the spacer between the bearings is either missing or is too short.  You can adjust the length of the spacer with shims, usually in sizes ranging from .001" to .010".  Do not shave the nut unless you have the equipment to do a very accurate job! With the original bearing setup there will usually be a slight amount of play and this is ok.  With a tapered bearing conversion there will be virtually no play, as this is adjusted out with the aforementioned shims. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 4/9/2014 7:17 PM, bdavispics@yahoo.com wrote:  

I have a question regarding the front wheel bearings. I've read Jiim Buell's article on the TC Front End and used it when setting up my TA's front end back in the Fall. Since then I've probably driven less than 200 miles. However, a couple of days ago I took hold of the top of the front wheels and gave them a firm shake. I could hear a click with each forward and backward motion. It was slightly more pronounced on the Off side than the other but it bothered me and I removed the wheel and rechecked the castle nut today. I don't remember leaving it loose enough (with split pin removed) to easily turn with my fingers but that is what I found. I can tighten it and remove the click so I know that's where the movement/clicking is coming from. Buell says .005 gap there is about right. I've also read lots of 'how-to-set-wheel-bearings' on the internet but the question in my mind is just how loose can these be and still be okay. Will .005 clearance allow you to hear a click when the wheel is shaken? Or Should I be removing a slight amount at the back of the castle nut to allow it to pull up 'finger tight' in order to put the split pin in ...but without being obviously loose? Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Bill - Nashville, TN

[/quote]

[Stephen D Stierman]

I just did that change over myself, worked nicely.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] Peter Roberts mgtc@comcast.net> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:45 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   As Steve said: With a tapered bearing conversion there will be virtually no play, as this is adjusted out with the aforementioned shims." But be prepared to be very, very, patient fitting and re-fitting the shims until it is tight.   _Peter in CT TC0604

[Roger Furneaux]

hi Bill - that is worrying! If you set them up 200 miles ago and they are now loose, there are two possible reasons: 1) The bearings have bedded in, in which case you can take up the slack. But there should be [b]NO[/b] clearance! The bearings and spacer should be clamped tight on the stub axle: this makes for a much more rigid (and stronger) assembly than the stub alone, which is not all that rigid. The trouble is that with the nut tight, the bearings could very well lock up, due to wear on the hub flanges an/or spacer. Then you have to put shims in.  2) The stub axles have developed cracks!!! This is however highly unlikely to have happened on both sides, but could be on one. A friend had this happen: he tightened the nut several times as it got loose, but the wheel came off, thankfully as he was turning (on full lock) at low speed. The wheel went under the car and damaged the rear wing. oc[b]T[/b]agonally RogerTC0978

On 10 April 2014 04:05, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com> wrote: The nut needs to be torqued.  If the bearing begins to seize as you tighten then the spacer between the bearings is either missing or is too short.  You can adjust the length of the spacer with shims, usually in sizes ranging from .001" to .010".  Do not shave the nut unless you have the equipment to do a very accurate job! With the original bearing setup there will usually be a slight amount of play and this is ok.  With a tapered bearing conversion there will be virtually no play, as this is adjusted out with the aforementioned shims. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 4/9/2014 7:17 PM, bdavispics@yahoo.com wrote:   I have a question regarding the front wheel bearings. I've read Jiim Buell's article on the TC Front End and used it when setting up my TA's front end back in the Fall. Since then I've probably driven less than 200 miles. However, a couple of days ago I took hold of the top of the front wheels and gave them a firm shake. I could hear a click with each forward and backward motion. It was slightly more pronounced on the Off side than the other but it bothered me and I removed the wheel and rechecked the castle nut today. I don't remember leaving it loose enough (with split pin removed) to easily turn with my fingers but that is what I found. I can tighten it and remove the click so I know that's where the movement/clicking is coming from. Buell says .005 gap there is about right. I've also read lots of 'how-to-set-wheel-bearings' on the internet but the question in my mind is just how loose can these be and still be okay. Will .005 clearance allow you to hear a click when the wheel is shaken? Or… Should I be removing a slight amount at the back of the castle nut to allow it to pull up 'finger tight' in order to put the split pin in ...but without being obviously loose? Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Bill - Nashville, TN

[bdavispics]

Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

[Joe Curto]

I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com -----Original Message----- From: bdavispics bdavispics@yahoo.com> To: mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 10, 2014 5:37 pm Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

[Steve S]

Whatever that article was, it certainly didn't pertain to M.G.s! Probably older American cars where that practice is accepted and the parts are built strong enough to handle it. - Steve Simmons, TC8975 On 4/10/2014 2:37 PM, bdavispics@yahoo.com wrote:

Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

[BDavis]

Hi Steve, The article is in the T-ABC archives. See: http://www.mg-tabc.org/library/Buell-TC-Frontend-2nd-ed.pdf Page 18 and 19 discusses setting up the hub with the regular ole ball bearings (which I have) and the reference to the 10 ft-lbs for this application. Cheers all, Bill --------------------------------------------

On Thu, 4/10/14, Steve S mail@mgnuts.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings To: bdavispics@yahoo.com, mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 10, 2014, 5:23 PM Whatever that article was, it certainly didn't pertain to M.G.s! Probably older American cars where that practice is accepted and the parts are built strong enough to handle it. - Steve Simmons, TC8975

[Bob Grunau]

Hi Joe et All, Sorry, WRONG, you use a TIGHT stub axle nut and spacers properly shimmed no matter if using ball bearings or tapered roller bearings on a MMM MG or TA/TB/TC. Same as MGB which uses tapered roller bearings. .   Yes for am American car, different system but NOT suitable for an MG. Bob ,.

[quote] -----Original Message----- [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com][b]On Behalf Of [/b]Joe Curto [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, April 10, 2014 5:49 PM [b]To:[/b] bdavispics@yahoo.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Front Wheel Bearings   I did not get all of this from the beginning  but if you are fitting ball bearings with spacer between them the nut is tight , if you are using tapered roller bearings like an American car and  is set up without spacers than that is the tighten /loosen procedure , if you are doing like an MGB with tapered roller bearings & shims that is another procedure again Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com   Thanks Steve, Bob, Roger and all for the good advice. I've tightened the nuts. Torquing to 80 ft-lbs still allowed the hub to turn. They were magnafluxed back in the Fall but I'll check them again after a few miles to make sure the nuts are still very tight!!! Apparently the article saying to torque the nut to about 10 ft-lbs, back off one flat and then loosen till the pin fits is not such good advice after all. That ends up hardly (if any) more than finger tight. Regards, Bill

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