Front wheel bearings

[peter kerrison]

Problem solved!   Fortunately, a long time TC owner lives close to me and showed me the correct way to tighten the spinner nuts - jack up the wheel and beat the hell out of the spinner!  Seems I was just pussy footing around.  Nearly all the play has now gone & there's a reasonable chance that the wheels will stay on.  Thanks, Richard.   Thanks also for all the replies & help.   Peter.  

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] peter.kerrison@btinternet.com [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, June 06, 2013 12:06 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings   TC 8249 is now back on the road!   Although no longer compulsory I took it for an MOT (UK road worthiness test) which it passed but with a few recommendations, particularly to reduce the amount of front wheel "play".  I guess that just means new bearings.  I note that there's a seal behind them which I'd intend to replace as well.  Any advice? Alternatively, if available,should I use sealed bearings?   Peter Andover

[Peter Roberts]

[b]CORRECTION[/b]! My statement This requires that the open ends of the outer races both face the axel nut. is[b][i] incorrect[/i][/b].   The open ends of the outer races are opposed with the race of the inner bearing facing the brake backing plate and the race of the outer bearing facing the axle nut.   Sorry about that,   _Peter

[Dirk Dondorp]

Clear as mud!Dirk Am 07.06.2013 um 18:05 schrieb "Peter Roberts" mgtc@comcast.net>:

  [b]CORRECTION[/b]! My statement This requires that the open ends of the outer races both face the axel nut. is[b][i] incorrect[/i][/b].   The open ends of the outer races are opposed with the race of the inner bearing facing the brake backing plate and the race of the outer bearing facing the axle nut.   Sorry about that,   _Peter

[eworpe]

Hi Peter, I have to admit that I've not come across "the correct procedure"; however, I do feel concerned at the "beat the hell out of the spinner" advice, especially when the wheel is jacked up. As I think Steve has pointed out, there's a risk of spreading the taper section of the wheel's hub and also submitting the wheel bearing assembly to shock loading. By all means tighten the spinner with the wheel jacked up, but the final tightening should I suspect be with the wheel on the ground. Regards, Eric. ________________________________________ From: peter kerrison [peter.kerrison@btinternet.com] Problem solved! Fortunately, a long time TC owner lives close to me and showed me the correct way to tighten the spinner nuts - jack up the wheel and beat the hell out of the spinner! Seems I was just pussy footing around. Nearly all the play has now gone & there's a reasonable chance that the wheels will stay on. Thanks, Richard.

----- Original Message ----- From: peter kerrison TC 8249 is now back on the road! Although no longer compulsory I took it for an MOT (UK road worthiness test) which it passed but with a few recommendations, particularly to reduce the amount of front wheel "play". I guess that just means new bearings. I note that there's a seal behind them which I'd intend to replace as well. Any advice? Alternatively, if available,should I use sealed bearings?

[Karl Vacek]

Further to Eric’s observation, the Rudge Whitworth Locking Principle (I love than name) demonstrates that  the spinner will naturally be tightened by the forward motion of the vehicle.  That applies as long as the hubs and knock-offs are on the proper sides of the car.  They should have been tight after driving even if you had only rather gently tightened them before driving.

 

If you “beat the Hell out of” them and only “nearly all the play has now gone”, then there’s something wrong with the hubs (either the hubs on the car or the centers of the wheels), the spinners, or the wheel bearings.

 

Karl Vacek

Riverside, Illinois  USA

TC 6370

 

 

[b]From:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings

Hi Peter, I have to admit that I've not come across "the correct procedure"; however, I do feel concerned at the "beat the hell out of the spinner" advice, especially when the wheel is jacked up. As I think Steve has pointed out, there's a risk of spreading the taper section of the wheel's hub and also submitting the wheel bearing assembly to shock loading. By all means tighten the spinner with the wheel jacked up, but the final tightening should I suspect be with the wheel on the ground. Regards, Eric.

[Kern Matlock]

[1948-mgtc@att.net]

I put a small amount of never seize on the lip of the wheel and tighten the spinner by hand then put the wheel down on the ground for final tightening. I don't every bang the hell out of the spinner when jacked up for fear of flat spotting the bearing ball or tapered rollers. John

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] betskern@msn.com [b]To:[/b] kvacek@ameritech.net ; E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk ; peter.kerrison@btinternet.com ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, June 10, 2013 4:36 PM [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings   I had this problem. I moved the spinners between my TF and TC and finally got them to tighten correctly, I assumed hat it must be a tolerance problem and I hit worst on worst ? Kern   To: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk; peter.kerrison@btinternet.com; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com From: KVacek@Ameritech.net Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:22:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings   Further to Eric s observation, the Rudge Whitworth Locking Principle (I love than name) demonstrates that  the spinner will naturally be tightened by the forward motion of the vehicle.  That applies as long as the hubs and knock-offs are on the proper sides of the car.  They should have been tight after driving even if you had only rather gently tightened them before driving.   If you beat the Hell out of them and only nearly all the play has now gone , then there s something wrong with the hubs (either the hubs on the car or the centers of the wheels), the spinners, or the wheel bearings.

 

Karl Vacek

Riverside, Illinois  USA

TC 6370

 

 

[b]From:[/b] E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk [b]Subject:[/b] RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings

Hi Peter, I have to admit that I've not come across "the correct procedure"; however, I do feel concerned at the "beat the hell out of the spinner" advice, especially when the wheel is jacked up. As I think Steve has pointed out, there's a risk of spreading the taper section of the wheel's hub and also submitting the wheel bearing assembly to shock loading. By all means tighten the spinner with the wheel jacked up, but the final tightening should I suspect be with the wheel on the ground. Regards, Eric.

[Steve S]

I don't think rapping the spinner with a lead hammer will brinell the bearing races or damage the bearings, but they still shouldn't be over-tightened. The problem with hammering too much is in the mating surface between wheel hub and car hub the (angled part). This is a friction fit and not only locates the wheel properly over the hub (along with the angled portion of the spinner), but also prevents it from clunking forward and back while you accelerate and brake. If over-tightened, the inside flange of the wheel hub will stretch and "ride up" the car hub. As it stretches, the inner spoke tension loosens, but even worse is when it stretches enough that the rear of the wheel hub contacts the brake drum nuts. You can't see it happen because the nuts are hidden, and the gap between the wheel hub and brake drum suggests nothing is wrong. But once this happens, you will never get the wheel fully tightened against the car hub no matter how hard you hammer the spinner. The wheel will sit partially loose and clunk on the splines, wearing them rapidly. In extreme cases, the clunking back and forth can loosen the spinner. I've seen this happen more than once from a wheel moving around. This is one reason why I don't subscribe 100% to the "self-tightening" theory. It seems to work most of the time but when it doesn't, the results can be, shall we say, bad. There are just too many variables involved. This is also why I never put grease on the mating surface of the hubs. They should be left dry, or if anti-corrosion is necessary then just a very light water repellant such as WD-40. Slippery lubrication will only promote over-tightening by allowing the wheel hub to ride up on the wheel hub. I do use grease on the splines of course. Just my 2 cents based on my own experiences, so take the above as you see fit! - Steve Simmons, TC8975

On 6/10/2013 3:05 PM, 1948-mgtc@att.net wrote: > > I put a small amount of never seize on the lip of the wheel and > tighten the spinner by hand then put the wheel down on the ground for > final tightening. I don't every bang the hell out of the spinner when > jacked up for fear of flat spotting the bearing ball or tapered rollers. > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kern Matlock betskern@msn.com> > *To:* Karl Vacek kvacek@ameritech.net> ; > E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk> ; > peter.kerrison@btinternet.com > peter.kerrison@btinternet.com> ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2013 4:36 PM > *Subject:* RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings > > I had this problem. I moved the spinners between my TF and TC and > finally got them to tighten correctly, I assumed hat it must be a > tolerance problem and I hit worst on worst ? Kern > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; > peter.kerrison@btinternet.com > peter.kerrison@btinternet.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> > From: KVacek@Ameritech.net KVacek@Ameritech.net> > Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:22:12 -0500 > Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings > > Further to Eric s observation, the Rudge Whitworth Locking > Principle (I love than name) demonstrates that the spinner will > naturally be tightened by the forward motion of the vehicle. That > applies as long as the hubs and knock-offs are on the proper sides > of the car. They should have been tight after driving even if you > had only rather gently tightened them before driving. > > If you beat the Hell out of them and only nearly all the play > has now gone , then there s something wrong with the hubs (either > the hubs on the car or the centers of the wheels), the spinners, > or the wheel bearings. > > Karl Vacek > > Riverside, Illinois USA > > TC 6370 > > *From:*E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk > *Subject:* RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings > > Hi Peter, > I have to admit that I've not come across "the correct procedure"; > however, I do feel concerned at the "beat the hell out of the > spinner" advice, especially when the wheel is jacked up. > As I think Steve has pointed out, there's a risk of spreading the > taper section of the wheel's hub and also submitting the wheel > bearing assembly to shock loading. By all means tighten the > spinner with the wheel jacked up, but the final tightening should > I suspect be with the wheel on the ground. > Regards, Eric. > > > >

[peter kerrison]

Wow, this has become way too serious! My reference to "beat the hell out of the spinner" was me being flippant, a reflection of me not tightening the spinner enough. I promise I'll only make very serious comments in future. Thanks for all the comments, Peter.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve S" mail@mgnuts.com> To: "MG tabcgroups" MG-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings >I don't think rapping the spinner with a lead hammer will brinell the > bearing races or damage the bearings, but they still shouldn't be > over-tightened. > > The problem with hammering too much is in the mating surface between > wheel hub and car hub the (angled part). This is a friction fit and not > only locates the wheel properly over the hub (along with the angled > portion of the spinner), but also prevents it from clunking forward and > back while you accelerate and brake. If over-tightened, the inside > flange of the wheel hub will stretch and "ride up" the car hub. As it > stretches, the inner spoke tension loosens, but even worse is when it > stretches enough that the rear of the wheel hub contacts the brake drum > nuts. You can't see it happen because the nuts are hidden, and the gap > between the wheel hub and brake drum suggests nothing is wrong. But > once this happens, you will never get the wheel fully tightened against > the car hub no matter how hard you hammer the spinner. > > The wheel will sit partially loose and clunk on the splines, wearing > them rapidly. In extreme cases, the clunking back and forth can loosen > the spinner. I've seen this happen more than once from a wheel moving > around. This is one reason why I don't subscribe 100% to the > "self-tightening" theory. It seems to work most of the time but when it > doesn't, the results can be, shall we say, bad. There are just too many > variables involved. This is also why I never put grease on the mating > surface of the hubs. They should be left dry, or if anti-corrosion is > necessary then just a very light water repellant such as WD-40. > Slippery lubrication will only promote over-tightening by allowing the > wheel hub to ride up on the wheel hub. I do use grease on the splines > of course. > > Just my 2 cents based on my own experiences, so take the above as you > see fit! > > - Steve Simmons, TC8975 > > On 6/10/2013 3:05 PM, 1948-mgtc@att.net wrote: >> >> I put a small amount of never seize on the lip of the wheel and >> tighten the spinner by hand then put the wheel down on the ground for >> final tightening. I don't every bang the hell out of the spinner when >> jacked up for fear of flat spotting the bearing ball or tapered rollers. >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Kern Matlock betskern@msn.com> >> *To:* Karl Vacek kvacek@ameritech.net> ; >> E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk> ; >> peter.kerrison@btinternet.com >> peter.kerrison@btinternet.com> ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >> mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2013 4:36 PM >> *Subject:* RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings >> >> I had this problem. I moved the spinners between my TF and TC and >> finally got them to tighten correctly, I assumed hat it must be a >> tolerance problem and I hit worst on worst ? Kern >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To: E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk>; >> peter.kerrison@btinternet.com >> peter.kerrison@btinternet.com>; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com >> mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> >> From: KVacek@Ameritech.net KVacek@Ameritech.net> >> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:22:12 -0500 >> Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings >> >> Further to Eric s observation, the Rudge Whitworth Locking >> Principle (I love than name) demonstrates that the spinner will >> naturally be tightened by the forward motion of the vehicle. That >> applies as long as the hubs and knock-offs are on the proper sides >> of the car. They should have been tight after driving even if you >> had only rather gently tightened them before driving. >> >> If you beat the Hell out of them and only nearly all the play >> has now gone , then there s something wrong with the hubs (either >> the hubs on the car or the centers of the wheels), the spinners, >> or the wheel bearings. >> >> Karl Vacek >> >> Riverside, Illinois USA >> >> TC 6370 >> >> *From:*E.Worpe@surrey.ac.uk >> *Subject:* RE: [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings >> >> Hi Peter, >> I have to admit that I've not come across "the correct procedure"; >> however, I do feel concerned at the "beat the hell out of the >> spinner" advice, especially when the wheel is jacked up. >> As I think Steve has pointed out, there's a risk of spreading the >> taper section of the wheel's hub and also submitting the wheel >> bearing assembly to shock loading. By all means tighten the >> spinner with the wheel jacked up, but the final tightening should >> I suspect be with the wheel on the ground. >> Regards, Eric. >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

[bdavispics]

I have a question regarding the front wheel bearings. I've read Jiim Buell's article on the TC Front End and used it when setting up my TA's front end back in the Fall. Since then I've probably driven less than 200 miles. However, a couple of days ago I took hold of the top of the front wheels and gave them a firm shake. I could hear a click with each forward and backward motion. It was slightly more pronounced on the Off side than the other but it bothered me and I removed the wheel and rechecked the castle nut today. I don't remember leaving it loose enough (with split pin removed) to easily turn with my fingers but that is what I found. I can tighten it and remove the click so I know that's where the movement/clicking is coming from. Buell says .005 gap there is about right. I've also read lots of 'how-to-set-wheel-bearings' on the internet but the question in my mind is just how loose can these be and still be okay. Will .005 clearance allow you to hear a click when the wheel is shaken? Or Should I be removing a slight amount at the back of the castle nut to allow it to pull up 'finger tight' in order to put the split pin in ...but without being obviously loose? Thanks in advance for any comments. Cheers, Bill - Nashville, TN