Front wheel bearings

[Robert Grunau]

> If you change the front bearings to taper do you need the spacer.

YES, absolutely!! Opinions differ on whether or not to use a spacer tube in a tapered roller conversion. It used to be very common to install tapered roller bearings on the TC without using a spacer tube. This made adjustment very easy, along the lines of the method Bob Johnson described earlier tonight. There are still a lot of TCs around with a spacerless roller bearing setup. This has proved to be wrong at least twenty years ago. Spacers and shims are a must to duplicate the original stub axle strength due to the increased effective diameter of a tight assembly, including inner races ( ball or tapered ) and spacer and nut. On the other hand there may be merit to the idea that the inner races clamped down tight against the spacer tube added strength to the original roller bearing setup. Consequently current thinking seems to be that you should still use a spacer tube with tapered roller bearings. In fact some cars originally equipped with tapered rollers also use spacers (for example MGA and MGB if I remember correctly). Correct! Now, I'm not a mechanical engineer so I have no idea how to calculate whether the spacer tube actually adds enough strength to the spindle to be worth the effort. However it just seems to me to make sense, so if I were to convert my TC to tapered rollers I would use a spacer. OK, I am a Mechanical Engineer and the spacer etc increase the effective diameter when the assembly is all locked together and hence increases the bending strength. .u Trouble is, using a spacer makes adjusting the bearing very fiddley. You need to get the length of the spacer just the right to give the correct play in the bearings (barely perceptible movement out at the wheel rim). Not so, the spacer is usually too short so add bearing shims or make your own from shim stock. Maybe someone here who has done it can tell us how he accomplished that while managing to retain his sanity. No problem, you just need a few shims with the correct ID and different thicknesses. In the mean time, I'll stick to the standard ball bearings. OK, but how do you know the outer races are seated in the hub?? Better to use tapered bearings so you can shim the assembly and compensate for any discrepoancy in hub or spacer length. Bob -- Chip Old 1948 M.G. TC TC6710 XPAG7430 NEMGTR #2271 Cub Hill, MD, USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT3154LO CT3479E fold@bcpl.net

[Ron Benson]

Hi all, Anybody know if there is a quick and easy method for re-greasing the front wheel bearings without removing them completely? May seem like a dumb question. Also the FAG bearings I fitted do'nt seem to have lasted well as there is some play in them.Is there a better type of bearing or should I go for the taper conversion? Regards, Ron Benson. PS I see there were a few T Types in the car park at Prescott. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Madhusudhanan Paroor]

Hi Ron Benson, Greasing the front bearing will not help you at all. Your axle is loose in the bearing creating heat. First the grease will melt and flow out. Then the bearing will get dry. Then the process of damaging the axle is only a matter of time. If the bearing is loose it to certain tolerance it can be glued with spacial stuff to the axle. But if the tolerance is more it will not help. We want you happy and healthy in our group. Why do you want to risk your life for few dollar ? best Madhu

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Ron Benson ron.benson@tiscali.co.uk>wrote: > Hi all, > > Anybody know if there is a quick and easy method for re-greasing the front > wheel bearings without removing them completely? May seem like a dumb > question. Also the FAG bearings I fitted do'nt seem to have lasted well as > there is some play in them.Is there a better type of bearing or should I go > for the taper conversion? > > Regards, > > Ron Benson. > > PS I see there were a few T Types in the car park at Prescott. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ron Benson]

Hi Madhu, Thank you for your reply, but the problem is not I think with the fit of the bearings in the hub, but the actual bearing race itself. I am wondering if the bearings I have fitted are of a close enough tolerance. Regards, Ron Benson From: Madhusudhanan Paroor [mailto:madhuparoor@googlemail.com] Sent: 10 August 2008 07:09 To: Ron Benson Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Front wheel bearings Hi Ron Benson, Greasing the front bearing will not help you at all. Your axle is loose in the bearing creating heat. First the grease will melt and flow out. Then the bearing will get dry. Then the process of damaging the axle is only a matter of time. If the bearing is loose it to certain tolerance it can be glued with spacial stuff to the axle. But if the tolerance is more it will not help. We want you happy and healthy in our group. Why do you want to risk your life for few dollar ? best Madhu On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Ron Benson ron.benson@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Hi all, Anybody know if there is a quick and easy method for re-greasing the front wheel bearings without removing them completely? May seem like a dumb question. Also the FAG bearings I fitted do'nt seem to have lasted well as there is some play in them.Is there a better type of bearing or should I go for the taper conversion? Regards, Ron Benson. PS I see there were a few T Types in the car park at Prescott. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Michael Leckstein]

I'm in need of front wheel bearings for my PA. I note that Sports and Vintage in the UK shows the same catalogue number for the TA as for the PA. . My question is whether the TC and TA share the same front wheel bearings. If so it would be easier to get them from an American supplier as the postage is so expensive from the UK. Anyone have knowledge of this? Thanks Mike

[Bob Grunau]

MIke, I replaced the front wheel bearing in my PA a couple years ago. They are the same as TA/TC and therefore readily available from local bearing suppliers. And cheap too. You don't need a specialty MG supplier. I used tapered roller bearings, a bearing spacer as original, and shimmed the spacer to get nice rolling hub with no movement when the stub axle nut was done up tight to about 75 ft-lbs to 85 ft-lbs on the original 5/8" BSF stub axle nuts. And don't forget the left side is a left hand thread. I like tapered rollers for several reasons: 1-you can Loctite the outer race into the wheel hub to take up any slack in the hub . Who knows what 75 years of use and abuse have done to the hub bearing races and shoulders. You can't easily measure this with original ball bearings. 2-the bearing spacer can be shimmed to give exactly the right pre-load in the tapered roller bearings regardless of hub wear. 3-tapered rollers are much superior bearings with increased load capacity, not that this is a big concern on the PA. The advantage of ball bearings is you can buy pre-sealed for life bearings and so no messing with bearing grease. As the J2, PA, N , TA, TC stub axles sizes are all the same, I can repair damaged stub axles with a new insert. Whatever you do, I would magna-flux, or crack test, the underside of the stub axles and check for cracks. Send me a separate email for bearing numbers, depending on what type you decide to use. best regards, Bob Bob Grunau 150 Pinewood Trail Mississauga, Ontario Canada, L5G-2L1 905-274-4136 grunau.garage@sympatico.ca I'm in need of front wheel bearings for my PA. I note that Sports and Vintage in the UK shows the same catalogue number for the TA as for the PA. . My question is whether the TC and TA share the same front wheel bearings. If so it would be easier to get them from an American supplier as the postage is so expensive from the UK. Anyone have knowledge of this? Thanks Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[peter kerrison]

TC 8249 is now back on the road!

 

Although no longer compulsory I took it for an MOT (UK road worthiness test) which it passed but with a few recommendations, particularly to reduce the amount of front wheel "play".  I guess that just means new bearings.  I note that there's a seal behind them which I'd intend to replace as well.  Any advice? Alternatively, if available,should I use sealed bearings?

 

Peter

Andover

[Roger Furneaux]

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----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] peter.kerrison@btinternet.com [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, June 06, 2013 12:06 PM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Front Wheel Bearings TC 8249 is now back on the road!   Although no longer compulsory I took it for an MOT (UK road worthiness test) which it passed but with a few recommendations, particularly to reduce the amount of front wheel "play".  I guess that just means new bearings.  I note that there's a seal behind them which I'd intend to replace as well.  Any advice? Alternatively, if available,should I use sealed bearings?   Peter Andover

[Bob Grunau]

   For once, Roger and I agree    Use tapered rollers and bearing spacer and shim so the stub axle nut is TIGHT while the hub still just spins freely. PLEASE ( yes I'm yelling ) use the spacer, shims and TIGHT nut no matter what type of bearings are used. Far too many TA/TB/TCs have suffered stub axle failures due to a loose stub axle nut, which weakens the assembly.   Bob, Canada, where we are expecting 3 days of rain and cool temperatures. . .   hi Peter - was the play rocking due to worn bearings, or vertical movement due to worn kingpin thrust washers? Assuming the bearings:   Check the nuts are tight: if you tighten them and the hubs lock up, the hubs or the spacers could be worn. If not, its the bearings: the original ball bearings are not really up to the job. Many people in the past have left the nuts slightly loose to prevent locking up, but this is onviously not the way to go!   Consider converting to taper-rollers, which properly take thrust axially and radially, and will last for years without trouble. I can supply them with the necessary shims and instructions for 60, or sealed ball bearings for 26 (but you might also need new spacers, inner rings and seals, which I have. Also hubs)   oc[b]T[/b]agonally   Roger Sunny Devon

TC 8249 is now back on the road!   Although no longer compulsory I took it for an MOT (UK road worthiness test) which it passed but with a few recommendations, particularly to reduce the amount of front wheel "play".  I guess that just means new bearings.  I note that there's a seal behind them which I'd intend to replace as well.  Any advice? Alternatively, if available,should I use sealed bearings?   Peter Andover

[Peter Roberts]

With the kind assistance of Bob Grunau and Doug Pelton, I am on the last stage of installing tapered roller bearings in my front hubs.  After several false starts, I am now on my third day of this project. There are a few pointers to keep in mind.

 

First, the orientation of the bearing assemblies (there are two).  As Bob and Doug have kindly explained, the nose cones of the inner bearing assemblies must face each other.  This requires that the open ends of the outer races both face the axel nut.

 

Fitting the spacer, and shims as needed, is a bit tricky.  Perhaps the best piece of advice I received was to emery the spindle where the outer bearing fits.  You want this bearing to slip on and off easily to allow you to add shims to the spacer.  Then, it s a matter of fitting it all together, tightening up the nut to 75 ft lbs whilst rotating the hub several times....and discovering that the hub has bound up and you need to add more shim to the spacer.  Trial and error.

 

This is a demanding task and you must defer the beer to the end of it.  Or, as I did, say the hell with it several times as an excuse to retire to the Pub.

 

Best of luck!

 

_Peter in CT

TC0604