5 speed conversion

[Clifford Knight]

Can't agree with some of these comments. Without FIVA and the local car clubs such as FHVC in UK or EO Philpa here in Greece, most country's governments would have forced us to detox our engines, modify them to use lead free fuels, pay road taxes even when our cars were off road, or loose original registrations - or more recently scrap our cars as soon as they were no longer taxed or tested. As for FIVA being elitist you only have to look at the membership. The only criteria is that the vehicles must be over 30 years old. Nothing is forced on our cars. The choice is ours, but if you wish to compete with other authentic historic cars on events, or enjoy the benefits of running a vehicle that does not meet modern standards then FIVA provides certification that your vehicle is what it purports to be. Most European governments (can't speak for the rest of the world) will accept that as a valid proof that the car is not simply fake or replica trying to exploit a loophole and avoid taxes etc. In most countries there are other ways to verify the vehicle - some countries adopt a points system for authenticity and verification by a car club "expert". Chassis, body, engine, transmission and steering are given a point each and you need, say 3 out of 5 to be accepted - otherwise the vehicle is put in an indeterminate age category. No one is trying to stop us modifying vehicles by fitting modern steering or gearboxes. FIVA and FIA simply want to make sure that such vehicles are not getting unfair advantages in competition - or pretending to be historic vehicles to get around the legislation. In my adopted country I had the choice. Import my TA (with XPAG engine) and pay 300% X the age related import tax because it met no pollution legislation and was considered as just an old car. If I took that route I would also have to subject it to road tests that have no concessions for old cars and pay up to 1000 euros per year for my road tax. I chose the easy way. I imported as a Historic Vehicle using FIVA to verify the authenticity then pay no tax or road tests. Seemed a good deal to me and preferable to sniffing in CarlGainesville's tent! I really think we all need organisations like FIVA to ensure we can continue to use our vehicles and argue our case collectively with our governments. Cliff - enjoying the benefits that FIVA have negotiated for me in Greece.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Carl Fritz carlmgtc@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Count me OUT of the damnable "nanny-state attitudes" that seem to be > proliferating like the plague !!! I don't need or want either some > government bureau or elitist club drafting rules/regulations/laws dictating > what my car can or cannot have. KEEP your camel's nose to Hell out of my > tent!! FIVA has lost it way in search of utopia, and is now one of the EU's > handmaidens!! > > Regards, CarlGainesville, Florida > > > > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > From: bklingenberg@verizon.net > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:11 -0700 > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Murray and others, > > Interesting comment about inspections and safety in Australia versus > Europe. In the land of the free a TC doesn't even have to be safe. As long > as it is registered as a historic vehicle and not used for regular > transportation it's free to roam. It's up to the owner to be safe. > > Bjorn TC 7773 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[murray arundell]

Cliff, My point is that while FIVA may allow you to drive classic cars without road tax and conforming with certain legislation they have become part of the some Euro Nonsense that has enveloped the rest of the EC. I say this because they have taken the line of least resistance by acceding to the EC that cars must be totally original. If I understand your post correctly a TC with a Datsun Steering Box and a Sierra Gearbox could not be registered in many parts of the EC. My original point stands, these modifications are becoming more and more necessary in order to a) keep the cars on the road, b) to avoid becoming a statistic. Its my view that a body like FIVA who set themselves up as a body to represent Classic Motorist should be actively pushing for such arrangements to be allowed and not simply adopting a policy of total originality. As mentioned previously I am only referring to road cars. Competition is a different matter and I've no issue with that. Murray Arundell Brisbane Aus

On 23/03/2010, at 6:27 PM, Clifford Knight wrote: > Can't agree with some of these comments. Without FIVA and the local > car > clubs such as FHVC in UK or EO Philpa here in Greece, most country's > governments would have forced us to detox our engines, modify them > to use > lead free fuels, pay road taxes even when our cars were off road, or > loose > original registrations - or more recently scrap our cars as soon as > they > were no longer taxed or tested. As for FIVA being elitist you only > have to > look at the membership. The only criteria is that the vehicles must > be over > 30 years old. Nothing is forced on our cars. The choice is ours, but > if you > wish to compete with other authentic historic cars on events, or > enjoy the > benefits of running a vehicle that does not meet modern standards > then FIVA > provides certification that your vehicle is what it purports to be. > Most > European governments (can't speak for the rest of the world) will > accept > that as a valid proof that the car is not simply fake or replica > trying to > exploit a loophole and avoid taxes etc. In most countries there are > other > ways to verify the vehicle - some countries adopt a points system for > authenticity and verification by a car club "expert". Chassis, body, > engine, > transmission and steering are given a point each and you need, say 3 > out of > 5 to be accepted - otherwise the vehicle is put in an indeterminate > age > category. No one is trying to stop us modifying vehicles by fitting > modern > steering or gearboxes. FIVA and FIA simply want to make sure that such > vehicles are not getting unfair advantages in competition - or > pretending to > be historic vehicles to get around the legislation. > > In my adopted country I had the choice. Import my TA (with XPAG > engine) and > pay 300% X the age related import tax because it met no pollution > legislation and was considered as just an old car. If I took that > route I > would also have to subject it to road tests that have no concessions > for old > cars and pay up to 1000 euros per year for my road tax. I chose the > easy > way. I imported as a Historic Vehicle using FIVA to verify the > authenticity > then pay no tax or road tests. Seemed a good deal to me and > preferable to > sniffing in CarlGainesville's tent! > > I really think we all need organisations like FIVA to ensure we can > continue > to use our vehicles and argue our case collectively with our > governments. > > Cliff - enjoying the benefits that FIVA have negotiated for me in > Greece. > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Carl Fritz carlmgtc@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Count me OUT of the damnable "nanny-state attitudes" that seem to be > > proliferating like the plague !!! I don't need or want either some > > government bureau or elitist club drafting rules/regulations/laws > dictating > > what my car can or cannot have. KEEP your camel's nose to Hell out > of my > > tent!! FIVA has lost it way in search of utopia, and is now one of > the EU's > > handmaidens!! > > > > Regards, CarlGainesville, Florida > > > > > > > > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > > From: bklingenberg@verizon.net > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:11 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Murray and others, > > > > Interesting comment about inspections and safety in Australia versus > > Europe. In the land of the free a TC doesn't even have to be safe. > As long > > as it is registered as a historic vehicle and not used for regular > > transportation it's free to roam. It's up to the owner to be safe. > > > > Bjorn TC 7773 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more > from your > > inbox. > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick Waters]

Here we are again in the land of opinions and politics. Why? I bought my TC partly to escape that aspect of life. I subscribe to TABC to join in discussions on re-building, sourcing parts, and driving experiences. I get enough political silliness and opinionated rants in the rest of my life... Enough said, I'm going out to the garage. -Rick, TC 7881 in Vancouver Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Murray Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:51:07 To: Clifford Knightclifford.f.knight@gmail.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion Cliff, My point is that while FIVA may allow you to drive classic cars without road tax and conforming with certain legislation they have become part of the some Euro Nonsense that has enveloped the rest of the EC. I say this because they have taken the line of least resistance by acceding to the EC that cars must be totally original. If I understand your post correctly a TC with a Datsun Steering Box and a Sierra Gearbox could not be registered in many parts of the EC. My original point stands, these modifications are becoming more and more necessary in order to a) keep the cars on the road, b) to avoid becoming a statistic. Its my view that a body like FIVA who set themselves up as a body to represent Classic Motorist should be actively pushing for such arrangements to be allowed and not simply adopting a policy of total originality. As mentioned previously I am only referring to road cars. Competition is a different matter and I've no issue with that. Murray Arundell Brisbane Aus

On 23/03/2010, at 6:27 PM, Clifford Knight wrote: > Can't agree with some of these comments. Without FIVA and the local > car > clubs such as FHVC in UK or EO Philpa here in Greece, most country's > governments would have forced us to detox our engines, modify them > to use > lead free fuels, pay road taxes even when our cars were off road, or > loose > original registrations - or more recently scrap our cars as soon as > they > were no longer taxed or tested. As for FIVA being elitist you only > have to > look at the membership. The only criteria is that the vehicles must > be over > 30 years old. Nothing is forced on our cars. The choice is ours, but > if you > wish to compete with other authentic historic cars on events, or > enjoy the > benefits of running a vehicle that does not meet modern standards > then FIVA > provides certification that your vehicle is what it purports to be. > Most > European governments (can't speak for the rest of the world) will > accept > that as a valid proof that the car is not simply fake or replica > trying to > exploit a loophole and avoid taxes etc. In most countries there are > other > ways to verify the vehicle - some countries adopt a points system for > authenticity and verification by a car club "expert". Chassis, body, > engine, > transmission and steering are given a point each and you need, say 3 > out of > 5 to be accepted - otherwise the vehicle is put in an indeterminate > age > category. No one is trying to stop us modifying vehicles by fitting > modern > steering or gearboxes. FIVA and FIA simply want to make sure that such > vehicles are not getting unfair advantages in competition - or > pretending to > be historic vehicles to get around the legislation. > > In my adopted country I had the choice. Import my TA (with XPAG > engine) and > pay 300% X the age related import tax because it met no pollution > legislation and was considered as just an old car. If I took that > route I > would also have to subject it to road tests that have no concessions > for old > cars and pay up to 1000 euros per year for my road tax. I chose the > easy > way. I imported as a Historic Vehicle using FIVA to verify the > authenticity > then pay no tax or road tests. Seemed a good deal to me and > preferable to > sniffing in CarlGainesville's tent! > > I really think we all need organisations like FIVA to ensure we can > continue > to use our vehicles and argue our case collectively with our > governments. > > Cliff - enjoying the benefits that FIVA have negotiated for me in > Greece. > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Carl Fritz carlmgtc@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Count me OUT of the damnable "nanny-state attitudes" that seem to be > > proliferating like the plague !!! I don't need or want either some > > government bureau or elitist club drafting rules/regulations/laws > dictating > > what my car can or cannot have. KEEP your camel's nose to Hell out > of my > > tent!! FIVA has lost it way in search of utopia, and is now one of > the EU's > > handmaidens!! > > > > Regards, CarlGainesville, Florida > > > > > > > > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > > From: bklingenberg@verizon.net > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:11 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Murray and others, > > > > Interesting comment about inspections and safety in Australia versus > > Europe. In the land of the free a TC doesn't even have to be safe. > As long > > as it is registered as a historic vehicle and not used for regular > > transportation it's free to roam. It's up to the owner to be safe. > > > > Bjorn TC 7773 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more > from your > > inbox. > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

[Bjorn Klingenberg]

Dear group, It is entirely appropriate for this group to be factually informed about the rules and regulations that apply to operating vintage vehicles like ours around the world. What we don't need is the "political" side of that. I would welcome a side by side, country by country, comparison of applicable rules and regulations. That would certainly facilitate the acquiring, restoration, operation and selling of our vehicles. Bjorn TC7773 Silverton, Oregon

----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Waters To: Murray Arundell ; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com ; Clifford Knight Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion Here we are again in the land of opinions and politics. Why? I bought my TC partly to escape that aspect of life. I subscribe to TABC to join in discussions on re-building, sourcing parts, and driving experiences. I get enough political silliness and opinionated rants in the rest of my life... Enough said, I'm going out to the garage. -Rick, TC 7881 in Vancouver Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: Murray Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:51:07 To: Clifford Knightclifford.f.knight@gmail.com> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion Cliff, My point is that while FIVA may allow you to drive classic cars without road tax and conforming with certain legislation they have become part of the some Euro Nonsense that has enveloped the rest of the EC. I say this because they have taken the line of least resistance by acceding to the EC that cars must be totally original. If I understand your post correctly a TC with a Datsun Steering Box and a Sierra Gearbox could not be registered in many parts of the EC. My original point stands, these modifications are becoming more and more necessary in order to a) keep the cars on the road, b) to avoid becoming a statistic. Its my view that a body like FIVA who set themselves up as a body to represent Classic Motorist should be actively pushing for such arrangements to be allowed and not simply adopting a policy of total originality. As mentioned previously I am only referring to road cars. Competition is a different matter and I've no issue with that. Murray Arundell Brisbane Aus On 23/03/2010, at 6:27 PM, Clifford Knight wrote: > Can't agree with some of these comments. Without FIVA and the local > car > clubs such as FHVC in UK or EO Philpa here in Greece, most country's > governments would have forced us to detox our engines, modify them > to use > lead free fuels, pay road taxes even when our cars were off road, or > loose > original registrations - or more recently scrap our cars as soon as > they > were no longer taxed or tested. As for FIVA being elitist you only > have to > look at the membership. The only criteria is that the vehicles must > be over > 30 years old. Nothing is forced on our cars. The choice is ours, but > if you > wish to compete with other authentic historic cars on events, or > enjoy the > benefits of running a vehicle that does not meet modern standards > then FIVA > provides certification that your vehicle is what it purports to be. > Most > European governments (can't speak for the rest of the world) will > accept > that as a valid proof that the car is not simply fake or replica > trying to > exploit a loophole and avoid taxes etc. In most countries there are > other > ways to verify the vehicle - some countries adopt a points system for > authenticity and verification by a car club "expert". Chassis, body, > engine, > transmission and steering are given a point each and you need, say 3 > out of > 5 to be accepted - otherwise the vehicle is put in an indeterminate > age > category. No one is trying to stop us modifying vehicles by fitting > modern > steering or gearboxes. FIVA and FIA simply want to make sure that such > vehicles are not getting unfair advantages in competition - or > pretending to > be historic vehicles to get around the legislation. > > In my adopted country I had the choice. Import my TA (with XPAG > engine) and > pay 300% X the age related import tax because it met no pollution > legislation and was considered as just an old car. If I took that > route I > would also have to subject it to road tests that have no concessions > for old > cars and pay up to 1000 euros per year for my road tax. I chose the > easy > way. I imported as a Historic Vehicle using FIVA to verify the > authenticity > then pay no tax or road tests. Seemed a good deal to me and > preferable to > sniffing in CarlGainesville's tent! > > I really think we all need organisations like FIVA to ensure we can > continue > to use our vehicles and argue our case collectively with our > governments. > > Cliff - enjoying the benefits that FIVA have negotiated for me in > Greece. > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Carl Fritz carlmgtc@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Count me OUT of the damnable "nanny-state attitudes" that seem to be > > proliferating like the plague !!! I don't need or want either some > > government bureau or elitist club drafting rules/regulations/laws > dictating > > what my car can or cannot have. KEEP your camel's nose to Hell out > of my > > tent!! FIVA has lost it way in search of utopia, and is now one of > the EU's > > handmaidens!! > > > > Regards, CarlGainesville, Florida > > > > > > > > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > > From: bklingenberg@verizon.net > > Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:57:11 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] 5 speed conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Murray and others, > > > > Interesting comment about inspections and safety in Australia versus > > Europe. In the land of the free a TC doesn't even have to be safe. > As long > > as it is registered as a historic vehicle and not used for regular > > transportation it's free to roam. It's up to the owner to be safe. > > > > Bjorn TC 7773 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more > from your > > inbox. > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[i.thomson@talk21.com]

But there's nothing wrong with the original gearbox Doug - unlike the later TD & TF ones. It's more than strong enough never to go wrong and even the occasional jumping out of gear is fixable with new shims. I doubt very much that there are cars which will be seen more often and would dispute your claims to increased safety. As for it making the car more comfortable to drive - well.... if you want comfort look to another car. The gearbox must be the least of the aspects of our cars which add to it's discomfort. Of course if the car has no gearbox or has one which is damaged beyond repair I would agree that any box is better than none to get a car on the road but I very much doubt if there are many such cars out there. On the other hand it may be a way of getting a highly desirable increase in overall gearing but I would consider a new, uprated, diff setup to be a better way of achieving this. By the way I take it that you know that High Gear Engineering in Derby UK already produce such a kit. Regards Ian Thomson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]