brake pads?

[RobertWichert]

Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT 100% of the time. So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the picture, right? Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > valves adjust and such. I do > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > engines, motorcycle > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > a*shorter life* than a > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > miles, don't ask > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > question but have > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > only a few > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem to be > dead too quickly? > > Thanks! > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up >> with you! >> >> Cheers! >> >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> =============================================== >> >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: >> > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My wife >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are jeeps >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his KLR >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride >> very fast. >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

In the Coast Guard (back before the conversion to Volvo-Penta turbodiesels), we used twin Yamaha outboards on our RHIs. They were very reliable, even up in the Bering Sea - BUT they were professionally maintained on a strict schedule by people who knew what they were doing. More and more inboards today are going to closed heat-exchanger type cooling systems, and if I were buying a boat I would definitely spring for the heat exchanger. It's definitely easier and cheaper to acid-boil or replace a heat exchanger than it is to replace the whole engine. I think the problem with most small boats in private hands is that they are rather poorly maintained. They'll run the piss out of them all summer, leave 'em set out all winter without any maintenance and dump 'em back in again in the spring. This is particularly hard on engines that use raw-water cooling because scale and rust build up inside the engine itself and diminishes its cooling capacity very rapidly. Just $0.02 from a former boat guy.

----- Original Message ----- From: "RobertWichert" To: "James Douglas" , "dsn klr650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 7:39:43 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT 100% of the time. So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the picture, right? Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > valves adjust and such. I do > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > engines, motorcycle > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > a*shorter life* than a > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > miles, don't ask > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > question but have > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > only a few > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem to be > dead too quickly? > > Thanks! > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up >> with you! >> >> Cheers! >> >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> =============================================== >> >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: >> > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My wife >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are jeeps >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his KLR >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride >> very fast. >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

That's why my family and I own kayaks. Sure, they're slower, but they generally don't depreciate, and you can take them down a shallow class 5 rapid. Mark At 7:39 AM -0800 1/6/12, RobertWichert wrote: Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT 100% of the time. So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the picture, right? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[ron criswell]

Hobie 16's, the king of small boats. They will fly in strong and moderate wind (and they will move in very light wind when nothing else will). And they are green (er....until their use is over and you have to dispose of them). Very exciting to pitch pole one in 25 mph winds. Criswell Sent from my iPad

On Jan 6, 2012, at 10:10 AM, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: > That's why my family and I own kayaks. Sure, they're slower, but they > generally don't depreciate, and you can take them down a shallow > class 5 rapid. > > Mark > > At 7:39 AM -0800 1/6/12, RobertWichert wrote: > Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards > are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT > 100% of the time. > > So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. > > NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. > > Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the > picture, right? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bill Kinnison]

Man, who peed in your Wheaties this morning? (j/k) But you sound bitter. I agree with Jeff, and you as a result..... meaning that if people don't take care of their boats, use them hard & neglect them, then yea, their gonna end up as junk quickly. And it's not unusual for people to neglect a boat. Our Malibu is pretty sweet in my book. It's an inboard, Chevy 350 with fuel injection. We ride SkySkis behind it, usually around 20 - 26 mph, or around 2800 - 3500 RPM...... hardly WOT for a small block. The engine is fresh water cooled, but the lake is not like those in SoCal. I've seen these engines run 2500 -3000 hrs pretty easily. But you to take care of them, change the oil, winterize them in the winter, etc. I think the better saying is.... What to BOAT stand for? Bring Out Another Thousand..... and thats the truth there. - Bill _____ From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RobertWichert Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:40 AM To: James Douglas; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT 100% of the time. So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the picture, right? Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > valves adjust and such. I do > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > engines, motorcycle > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > a*shorter life* than a > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > miles, don't ask > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > question but have > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > only a few > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem to be > dead too quickly? > > Thanks! > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up >> with you! >> >> Cheers! >> >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> =============================================== >> >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: >> > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My wife >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are jeeps >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his KLR >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride >> very fast. >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeffrey]

Actually Hobie makes a sailboat/kayak that is great fun... Think it is called the Adventure great fun and less hassle than a boat and wind power!

[RobertWichert]

Jeff, I am certain that Coast Guard boats are great. I would also expect the Coast Guard outboards to be changed out regularly (before they failed), as well as professionally maintained. How many hours did you put on one before it was replaced? I would be curious (actually trying to validate my previous statement) to know if they were rebuilt or replaced. And yes, a closed-loop cooling system is vastly superior to raw water cooling and also almost never installed on small boats. Seagoing diesels are another animal entirely, and quite reliable in most cases, but I think James was talking about small boats in private hands that are run flat out all summer and then left with seaweed in the block to freeze in the winter. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 1/6/2012 8:08 AM, Jeff Khoury wrote: > > In the Coast Guard (back before the conversion to Volvo-Penta > turbodiesels), we used twin Yamaha outboards on our RHIs. They were > very reliable, even up in the Bering Sea - BUT they were > professionally maintained on a strict schedule by people who knew what > they were doing. > > More and more inboards today are going to closed heat-exchanger type > cooling systems, and if I were buying a boat I would definitely spring > for the heat exchanger. It's definitely easier and cheaper to > acid-boil or replace a heat exchanger than it is to replace the whole > engine. > > I think the problem with most small boats in private hands is that > they are rather poorly maintained. They'll run the piss out of them > all summer, leave 'em set out all winter without any maintenance and > dump 'em back in again in the spring. This is particularly hard on > engines that use raw-water cooling because scale and rust build up > inside the engine itself and diminishes its cooling capacity very rapidly. > > Just $0.02 from a former boat guy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RobertWichert" > > To: "James Douglas" >, "dsn klr650" > dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 7:39:43 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? > > Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards > are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT > 100% of the time. > > So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. > > NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. > > Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the > picture, right? > > Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > =============================================== > > On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > > valves adjust and such. I do > > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > > engines, motorcycle > > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > > a*shorter life* than a > > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > > miles, don't ask > > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > > question but have > > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > > only a few > > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem > to be > > dead too quickly? > > > > Thanks! > > > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up > >> with you! > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > >> +1 916 966 9060 > >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 > >> > >> =============================================== > >> > >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: > >> > > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My > wife > >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't > >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are > jeeps > >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred > >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 > >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 > >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his > KLR > >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this > >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike > >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride > >> very fast. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[RobertWichert]

If you ever want to have a BAD EXPERIENCE go in partners on a boat. The guy who has to fix it (me) gets to watch his buddies come in with a full rooster tail from miles away and hear that engine both screaming down the lake and then clicking like death when he shuts it off, coasts to the dock and says "She's running great!". = another head gasket. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 ===============================================

On 1/6/2012 8:43 AM, Bill Kinnison wrote: > > Man, who peed in your Wheaties this morning? (j/k) But you sound bitter. > > I agree with Jeff, and you as a result..... meaning that if people don't > take care of their boats, use them hard & neglect them, then yea, their > gonna end up as junk quickly. And it's not unusual for people to neglect a > boat. > > Our Malibu is pretty sweet in my book. It's an inboard, Chevy 350 with > fuel > injection. We ride SkySkis behind it, usually around 20 - 26 mph, or > around > 2800 - 3500 RPM...... hardly WOT for a small block. The engine is fresh > water cooled, but the lake is not like those in SoCal. I've seen these > engines run 2500 -3000 hrs pretty easily. But you to take care of them, > change the oil, winterize them in the winter, etc. > > I think the better saying is.... What to BOAT stand for? Bring Out Another > Thousand..... and thats the truth there. > - > Bill > > _____ > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > ] On > Behalf Of RobertWichert > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 7:40 AM > To: James Douglas; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? > > Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards > are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT > 100% of the time. > > So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. > > NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. > > Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the > picture, right? > > Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > +1 916 966 9060 > FAX +1 916 966 9068 > > =============================================== > > On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > > valves adjust and such. I do > > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > > engines, motorcycle > > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > > a*shorter life* than a > > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > > miles, don't ask > > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > > question but have > > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > > only a few > > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem > to be > > dead too quickly? > > > > Thanks! > > > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up > >> with you! > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP > >> +1 916 966 9060 > >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 > >> > >> =============================================== > >> > >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: > >> > > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My wife > >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't > >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are jeeps > >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred > >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 > >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 > >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his KLR > >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this > >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike > >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride > >> very fast. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ronald Criswell]

I have thought about buying one of those...the triyak? Me and my wife are not as athelitic for the 16 anymore. I miss it. Do you have a sailing kayak? Criswell

On Jan 6, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Jeffrey wrote: > Actually Hobie makes a sailboat/kayak that is great fun... Think it is called the Adventure > > great fun and less hassle than a boat > > and wind power! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Khoury]

I couldn't really say. It was a long time ago, and I was either the Coxswain or Boat Crew, not the Engineer. I can say for certain that I never jumped in a boat that wouldn't start, even in the winter on the Bering Sea. The MKs (Machinery Technicians) did a fine job at making sure the boats always went "vroom, vroom".

----- Original Message ----- From: "RobertWichert" To: "Jeff Khoury" , "dsn klr650" dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 9:29:58 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? Jeff, I am certain that Coast Guard boats are great. I would also expect the Coast Guard outboards to be changed out regularly (before they failed), as well as professionally maintained. How many hours did you put on one before it was replaced? I would be curious (actually trying to validate my previous statement) to know if they were rebuilt or replaced. And yes, a closed-loop cooling system is vastly superior to raw water cooling and also almost never installed on small boats. Seagoing diesels are another animal entirely, and quite reliable in most cases, but I think James was talking about small boats in private hands that are run flat out all summer and then left with seaweed in the block to freeze in the winter. Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 1/6/2012 8:08 AM, Jeff Khoury wrote: In the Coast Guard (back before the conversion to Volvo-Penta turbodiesels), we used twin Yamaha outboards on our RHIs. They were very reliable, even up in the Bering Sea - BUT they were professionally maintained on a strict schedule by people who knew what they were doing. More and more inboards today are going to closed heat-exchanger type cooling systems, and if I were buying a boat I would definitely spring for the heat exchanger. It's definitely easier and cheaper to acid-boil or replace a heat exchanger than it is to replace the whole engine. I think the problem with most small boats in private hands is that they are rather poorly maintained. They'll run the piss out of them all summer, leave 'em set out all winter without any maintenance and dump 'em back in again in the spring. This is particularly hard on engines that use raw-water cooling because scale and rust build up inside the engine itself and diminishes its cooling capacity very rapidly. Just $0.02 from a former boat guy. ----- Original Message ----- From: "RobertWichert" < robert@... > To: "James Douglas" < james.douglas@... >, "dsn klr650" < dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 7:39:43 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR - Boats? Boats are junk. Outboards are disposable aluminum diapers. Inboards are cooled by sewage. And everybody who drives a boat drives it at WOT 100% of the time. So, yes, they have a short and difficult life. NEVER try to rebuild an outboard motor. It is impossible. Have you ever heard the saying "It's a boat anchor"? Well, you get the picture, right? Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP +1 916 966 9060 FAX +1 916 966 9068 =============================================== On 1/6/2012 6:42 AM, James Douglas wrote: > As one who is NOT mechanically inclined at all, like take to shop for > valves adjust and such. I do > perform basic stuff, oil changes, I started thinking why do some > engines, motorcycle > and boat, which typically don't get used all that much last so much of > a*shorter life* than a > automobile engine. Some cars, with proper maintenance, can go 250K + > miles, don't ask > as my old Mazda/Ford truck had over 265K miles when I sold it. > > Do these engines work harder or what? Sorry if this is a basic > question but have > noticed in on a couple of boat engines I have had although they were > only a few > years old and used infrequently, which could be the issue, they seem to be > dead too quickly? > > Thanks! > >> Good luck and god's speed on your ride! Don't let the dust catch up >> with you! >> >> Cheers! >> >> Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP >> +1 916 966 9060 >> FAX +1 916 966 9068 >> >> =============================================== >> >> On 1/5/2012 8:25 PM, sopris_2000 wrote: >> > >> > Engine rebuilds, bad batteries, brake pads, ain't life grand. My wife >> > and I ride 05 and 06 KLR's. the bikes start, they stop and I haven't >> > had to rebuild the engines yet with 30K miles on them. They are jeeps >> > of the moto world, they are not pretty but they do everything. Fred >> > sells me all the shit I need. The bikes work and we ride them. In 10 >> > days, me and the wife are heading to Mexico/Central America for 3 >> > months. Fred had a chance to come with us but he couldn't get his KLR >> > running in time. I think he ran out of money because of this >> > recession. So spend more money with Fred, maybe he can get his bike >> > running and catch up with me and the wife, my wife doesn't ride >> very fast. >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]