mounting hard luggage on h trails mount

[Robert Waters]

I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the sprockets and chain at the same time? rw [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waters" wrote:

> > > I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the > parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only > on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand > miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might > not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. > > Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the > sprockets and chain at the same time? >

It may not look that way to you, but if you put a new chain on those sprockets, they will have worn enough so that a new chain will wear them more quickly. If you are staying within a day of home, you might as well use up the sprockets with the last of the chain. If you are going to set out on a longish trip, you might want to change them right now. When your chain does reach the end of its road, it goes bad pretty quickly, and it's not pretty. You can always get "one more rally" out of it, or maybe not, but if you only have 160 miles to go, you can ease it home with no teeth left on the sprocket. However, if you are out in the wide open spaces, you may have decide whether to detour back to Colorado Springs, or to forgo a day of pass storming to ride straight to Moab by the most direct route possible. Neither option is disastrous, but either will upset your vacation plans.

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waters" wrote:

> > > I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the > parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only > on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand > miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might > not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. > > Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the > sprockets and chain at the same time? >

It may not look that way to you, but if you put a new chain on those sprockets, they will have worn enough so that a new chain will wear them more quickly. If you are staying within a day of home, you might as well use up the sprockets with the last of the chain. If you are going to set out on a longish trip, you might want to change them right now. When your chain does reach the end of its road, it goes bad pretty quickly, and it's not pretty. You can always get "one more rally" out of it, or maybe not, but if you only have 160 miles to go, you can ease it home with no teeth left on the sprocket. However, if you are out in the wide open spaces, you may have decide whether to detour back to Colorado Springs, or to forgo a day of pass storming to ride straight to Moab by the most direct route possible. Neither option is disastrous, but either will upset your vacation plans.

[Skypilot]

My 2.618 cents offered Do the test rather than relying on outward appearances. The condition of a chain is best judged on how much lateral deflection is available over a given length. In other words how much does it bend to the side. Don't know the measurements that say good or bad but that would be the way to know if you are questioning it. When it is time to change it do the sprockets and chain together. Unless you are holding a new OEM sprocket up next to the existing one you wont have a good frame of reference to judge wear. Doing them both means you have at least another 14k before you have to worry again. If you mix old and new you will need to keep an eye on it and will always need to be weary of the chain and sprocket condition. 14k of care free beats the cost of new sprockets and the time to pull it apart again in my opinion. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waters" wrote:

> > > I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the > parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only > on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand > miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might > not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. > > Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the > sprockets and chain at the same time? >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ron Magen]

Bob, Old sailors tip . . . "If you are THINKING about reefing . . it's time to DO IT !! " Murphy will ALWAYS bite you in the ass !! Change everything now - dry, comfortable, at a leisurely pace, indoor bathroom & kitchen at hand, etc. Regards, Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop Posted by: "Robert Waters" robertwaters@... robertwaters Date: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:14 am Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the sprockets and chain at the same time? _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.7.1 http://www.iolo.com

[Jeff Khoury]

Conventional wisdom says to change them at the same time. In your case, it may not be warranted. As a chain wears, it does not stretch, but the pins and the rollers wear, causing more slack, elongating the chain. If you replace your chain before significant elongation occurs, your sprockets will be OK. Just my $0.02 on chains, I'm a big fan of the RK XSO x-ring chains. -Jeff Khoury Astatic Solutions, LLC.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Waters" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:13:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] sprocket and chain I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the sprockets and chain at the same time? rw [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Robert Waters]

I did pull the chain from side to side and it went much further than I would have thought considering how little the rear sprocket is worn (maybe 30% gone). Also, it has places in it that do not streighten out well. Thanks for the advise. rw I Posted by: "Skypilot" skypilot@... skypilot110 Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:26 am (PDT) My 2.618 cents offered Do the test rather than relying on outward appearances. The condition of a chain is best judged on how much lateral deflection is available over a given length. In other words how much does it bend to the side. Don't know the measurements that say good or bad but that would be the way to know if you are questioning it. When it is time to change it do the sprockets and chain together. Unless you are holding a new OEM sprocket up next to the existing one you wont have a good frame of reference to judge wear. Doing them both means you have at least another 14k before you have to worry again. If you mix old and new you will need to keep an eye on it and will always need to be weary of the chain and sprocket condition. 14k of care free beats the cost of new sprockets and the time to pull it apart again in my opinion. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Robert Waters]

Jeff, Don't know for sure if you are right but that is what I wanted to hear. I have gone through a lot of chains but this is my first of this type. I went for a number of years without riding and my previous bike had a, uh, drive shaft. Where is the best place to get the RK XSO x-ring chains? rw Posted by: "Jeff Khoury" jeff@... DsrtEgl Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:09 pm (PDT) Conventional wisdom says to change them at the same time. In your case, it may not be warranted. As a chain wears, it does not stretch, but the pins and the rollers wear, causing more slack, elongating the chain. If you replace your chain before significant elongation occurs, your sprockets will be OK. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waters" wrote: > > > > > > I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the > > parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only > > on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand > > miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might > > not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. > > > > Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the > > sprockets and chain at the same time? > > > > It may not look that way to you, but if you put a new chain on those sprockets, they will have worn enough so that a new chain will wear them more quickly. If you are staying within a day of home, you might as well use up the sprockets with the last of the chain. If you are going to set out on a longish trip, you might want to change them right now. > > When your chain does reach the end of its road, it goes bad pretty quickly, and it's not pretty. You can always get "one more rally" out of it, or maybe not, but if you only have 160 miles to go, you can ease it home with no teeth left on the sprocket. However, if you are out in the wide open spaces, you may have decide whether to detour back to Colorado Springs, or to forgo a day of pass storming to ride straight to Moab by the most direct route possible. Neither option is disastrous, but either will upset your vacation plans. >

Yes your drive-chain-components may be all used up at 14,000 smiles. I may be the 'latest' person that could validate Judd's premise--of it goes bad pretty quickly. = riding along happy as a lark to-- complete sprocket failure in a matter of minutes. I offer you two versions. V.1 Background: OEM chain, New ~14000 smiles before; take off from a USMC bike OEM 43T rear Same as above 15 JT front: I use a 13,14,15T so the front had less than 20% of the total chain wear. Recently on a round-trip to KC from central South Dakota, I noticed while I was post-flight inspecting my sprockets/chain in KC, a coating of odd dust on the outboard side of the sprocket. Felt and looked like sugar sand, and since I had blundered on to a tertiary road that had been repaired with limestone and the attendant waste, I thought that was the source. Nevertheless, I examined every roller, every sprocket point and every o-ring, before and after a thorough spray down with wd-40, my long-term chain maintenance program. I found all to be in the norm for wear. Depart KC and fast-forward some 500 smiles-- the chain/sprocket 'suddenly' failed. I began with some gentle surging, progressing to radical surging when going up hill, that could not be attributed to engine--and remembering some recent discussion about surging and chains, I limped to a safe place on the prairie and took a look. Mind you, that safe place is an intersection between two towns--located 50 miles apart. Close initial inspection from the rear started with the discovery of missing chain rollers--progressing to a side view inspection, of missing sprocket teeth, wore completly off or bent over 90 degrees. Just a simple catastrophic--gone. The good news, the chain did not come off and eat my foot, or lock up the engine, etc. The bike had given me an 'invitation' to stop, I accepted and elected to stay put. In a rare moment of prairie, cell phone coverage, a friend came the final 57 miles of the 1200-mile trip and the faithful blue pig rode home in the back of a Ford pick-up. My friend's initial question-- "Can you start limping this way and I will meet you?" Ah, no. This KLR invitation to quit was accepted and I was done. Could I have gone further? Perhaps, with a chain adjustment and a bonafide 'life-threatening' need to continue. The only thing that was bothering me at this point were the bazillion SD state birds, aka as Anopheles albimanus, that showed up for dinner. A couple of things come to mind-- TM.1. Reading the list is a great substitute for experience, as we cannot experience all the bad things that can happen to you--not that some on the Darwin list have tried their best.... TM.2. I was surprised that an OEM chain failed at 14000 smiles--as others have reported as well. I had two previous experiences where they had gone 18 and 21K smiles and did not expect this to happen to me, this soon. Why? Some where along the line, this chain received more abuse, less care, or had a manufacturing flaw (that could be a single link failure) that was not involved in the other chains. NOTE: The 21K chain started surging as well, and spitting out rollers. I discovered this failure in the comfort of my own garage. TM.3 I have been carrying around a set of ratchet tie down straps for some 30K smiles, and gratefully, the rascals were right there in my bags when I reached for them. There are lots of trucks, trailers and means of conveyance out there, but not always tie-downs. The Ford-truck buddy has all kinds of trucks, but nary a light duty tie down. (The KLR-rev-elf-fairy left him 4 brand-spanking new, John Deere green ratcheting tiedowns on his doorstep after all this finished.) TM.4 Although I did a through inspection of this chain/sprocket combination before embarking on this little 1200 mile, 2-riding-day journey, and would have considered the chain worthy of a 6K smile journey based on previous component longevity--I have completely re-thought that longevity vs. money savings on replacement when going on a long campaign somewhere. Why? It is impractical to break down where it is difficult to receive parts/assistance easily. Your vacation time/weekend/day off is way to valuable to spend waiting for FedEx/UPS to overnight you the stuff you need. Or a $200 tow charge, etc. I have read on the list(s) where numerous people left on long trips, and had specifically, chain and sprocket problems--which have always puzzled me--especially having those problems in the interior of Mexico or the nether lands of NM, CO, UT, or NV. The lucid moment of thought: (= duh.) and I say this looking into a mirror: If your chain/sprocket life is in the last 1/2 of the expected chain life--and you know that you will not return home with at least 25% of the expected drive components remaining, replace it before you go on a 'trip-of-a lifetime, and use up the remaining component life while you are stomping around the home front--or give it to some poor soul that stumbles into your life that needs '1000 more smiles' to get home. Guess what? .75 of 18,0000 expected/hoped for miles = 13,500 miles. Looks like I got exactly what I should have expected. smile. Funny how that works out. Knowing what I know now, I should have been reluctant to take that bike, on that trip. TM. 5 DEET is the cure for the Anopheles albimanus; put some in the bike--had 5 cans of DEET in the shop, but none on the bike. and 'Franklins' are the sure-cure for a new drive chain and sprockets--neither of which I had abundance on that particular evening--but have since given some attention. Now the short version: V.2 The chain/sprocket went from fully functional to scary in less than 5 miles. END V.2 TM. 6 Listen to the bike--it talks to you constantly. Understand what it is trying to tell you, or ask the list, by describing what you are seeing/hearing. All for now-- revmaaatin.

[eddiebmauri]

You don't like the looks of your chain after 14K??? May I ask you this, "what type of riding do you do? Do you do a lot of off road, or are you mostly on rode (highway speeds?)"

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waters" wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm really not liking the looks of my chain after 14,000 miles. All the > > > parts are there but it seems to have a lot of wear. Although it is only > > > on the 4th adjustment notch. I'm sure I could get another few thousand > > > miles out of it but I'm thinking that if I change the chain now I might > > > not need to change the sprockets. They do not seem to be warn much. > > > > > > Is this a bad idea? Should I just hold off a while and change the > > > sprockets and chain at the same time? > > > > > > > It may not look that way to you, but if you put a new chain on those sprockets, they will have worn enough so that a new chain will wear them more quickly. If you are staying within a day of home, you might as well use up the sprockets with the last of the chain. If you are going to set out on a longish trip, you might want to change them right now. > > > > When your chain does reach the end of its road, it goes bad pretty quickly, and it's not pretty. You can always get "one more rally" out of it, or maybe not, but if you only have 160 miles to go, you can ease it home with no teeth left on the sprocket. However, if you are out in the wide open spaces, you may have decide whether to detour back to Colorado Springs, or to forgo a day of pass storming to ride straight to Moab by the most direct route possible. Neither option is disastrous, but either will upset your vacation plans. > > > > Yes your drive-chain-components may be all used up at 14,000 smiles. > > I may be the 'latest' person that could validate Judd's premise--of it goes bad pretty quickly. > = riding along happy as a lark to-- > complete sprocket failure in a matter of minutes. > > I offer you two versions. > > V.1 > > Background: > OEM chain, New ~14000 smiles before; take off from a USMC bike > OEM 43T rear Same as above > 15 JT front: I use a 13,14,15T so the front had less than 20% of the total chain wear. > > Recently on a round-trip to KC from central South Dakota, I noticed while I was post-flight inspecting my sprockets/chain in KC, a coating of odd dust on the outboard side of the sprocket. Felt and looked like sugar sand, and since I had blundered on to a tertiary road that had been repaired with limestone and the attendant waste, I thought that was the source. > > Nevertheless, I examined every roller, every sprocket point and every o-ring, before and after a thorough spray down with wd-40, my long-term chain maintenance program. I found all to be in the norm for wear. > > Depart KC and fast-forward some 500 smiles-- > the chain/sprocket 'suddenly' failed. > > I began with some gentle surging, progressing to radical surging when going up hill, that could not be attributed to engine--and remembering some recent discussion about surging and chains, I limped to a safe place on the prairie and took a look. Mind you, that safe place is an intersection between two towns--located 50 miles apart. > > Close initial inspection from the rear started with the discovery of missing chain rollers--progressing to a side view inspection, of missing sprocket teeth, wore completly off or bent over 90 degrees. > Just a simple catastrophic--gone. > > The good news, the chain did not come off and eat my foot, or lock up the engine, etc. > The bike had given me an 'invitation' to stop, > I accepted > and elected to stay put. > > In a rare moment of prairie, cell phone coverage, a friend came the final 57 miles of the 1200-mile trip and the faithful blue pig rode home in the back of a Ford pick-up. > My friend's initial question-- > "Can you start limping this way and I will meet you?" > Ah, no. > This KLR invitation to quit was accepted and I was done. > Could I have gone further? > Perhaps, with a chain adjustment and a bonafide 'life-threatening' need to continue. The only thing that was bothering me at this point were the bazillion SD state birds, aka as Anopheles albimanus, that showed up for dinner. > > A couple of things come to mind-- > > TM.1. Reading the list is a great substitute for experience, as we cannot experience all the bad things that can happen to you--not that some on the Darwin list have tried their best.... > > TM.2. I was surprised that an OEM chain failed at 14000 smiles--as others have reported as well. I had two previous experiences where they had gone 18 and 21K smiles and did not expect this to happen to me, this soon. > Why? > Some where along the line, this chain received more abuse, less care, or had a manufacturing flaw (that could be a single link failure) that was not involved in the other chains. > NOTE: The 21K chain started surging as well, and spitting out rollers. I discovered this failure in the comfort of my own garage. > > TM.3 I have been carrying around a set of ratchet tie down straps for some 30K smiles, and gratefully, the rascals were right there in my bags when I reached for them. There are lots of trucks, trailers and means of conveyance out there, but not always tie-downs. The Ford-truck buddy has all kinds of trucks, but nary a light duty tie down. (The KLR-rev-elf-fairy left him 4 brand-spanking new, John Deere green ratcheting tiedowns on his doorstep after all this finished.) > > TM.4 Although I did a through inspection of this chain/sprocket combination before embarking on this little 1200 mile, 2-riding-day journey, and would have considered the chain worthy of a 6K smile journey based on previous component longevity--I have completely re-thought that longevity vs. money savings on replacement when going on a long campaign somewhere. > Why? > It is impractical to break down where it is difficult to receive parts/assistance easily. Your vacation time/weekend/day off is way to valuable to spend waiting for FedEx/UPS to overnight you the stuff you need. Or a $200 tow charge, etc. > > I have read on the list(s) where numerous people left on long trips, and had specifically, chain and sprocket problems--which have always puzzled me--especially having those problems in the interior of Mexico or the nether lands of NM, CO, UT, or NV. > The lucid moment of thought: (= duh.) and I say this looking into a mirror: > If your chain/sprocket life is in the last 1/2 of the expected chain life--and you know that you will not return home with at least 25% of the expected drive components remaining, replace it before you go on a 'trip-of-a lifetime, and use up the remaining component life while you are stomping around the home front--or give it to some poor soul that stumbles into your life that needs '1000 more smiles' to get home. > > Guess what? .75 of 18,0000 expected/hoped for miles = 13,500 miles. Looks like I got exactly what I should have expected. > smile. > Funny how that works out. Knowing what I know now, I should have been reluctant to take that bike, on that trip. > > TM. 5 DEET is the cure for the Anopheles albimanus; put some in the bike--had 5 cans of DEET in the shop, but none on the bike. > and > 'Franklins' are the sure-cure for a new drive chain and sprockets--neither of which I had abundance on that particular evening--but have since given some attention. > > Now the short version: > > > V.2 > > The chain/sprocket went from fully functional to scary in less than 5 miles. > > END V.2 > > > TM. 6 Listen to the bike--it talks to you constantly. Understand what it is trying to tell you, or ask the list, by describing what you are seeing/hearing. > > All for now-- > revmaaatin. >