Wilsons Sandbox

My guess would be that there must be some sort of licensing agreement, etc. between the two companies, seeing that H-D is fully lawyered-up and sues people for so much as farting at their sacred cow of a design. I'm not a real big H-D fan (in case you didn't pick up on that). I liken them to a car company that sells brand new Edsels. Ick. Harleys are mostly for people with more money than brains who want a big, loud, heavy, expensive ego-stroking machine. They're great for people who want a bike that doesn't go, stop or turn. In my opinion, "real" bikers wear proper gear, ride more than they drive and know what a muffler is. I'd better stop now or I'll go off on one of my famous rants. -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Horton Oliphant" To: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:56:50 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me think about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Looks like the bloom is off the Harley rose. Sales are down 91%. From the text of the article it sounds like a lot of those Harley riders are not nearly as wealthy as you might think. More like easy credit from Harley. And now they need a bailout for their loan losses. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090716-712902.html R

----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Khoury To: Horton Oliphant Cc: klr Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley My guess would be that there must be some sort of licensing agreement, etc. between the two companies, seeing that H-D is fully lawyered-up and sues people for so much as farting at their sacred cow of a design. I'm not a real big H-D fan (in case you didn't pick up on that). I liken them to a car company that sells brand new Edsels. Ick. Harleys are mostly for people with more money than brains who want a big, loud, heavy, expensive ego-stroking machine. They're great for people who want a bike that doesn't go, stop or turn. In my opinion, "real" bikers wear proper gear, ride more than they drive and know what a muffler is. I'd better stop now or I'll go off on one of my famous rants. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horton Oliphant" To: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:56:50 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me think about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know but their engines have a lot more ponies than Harley's. Supposedly S&S is coming out with their own bike soon but it will be too expensive for me. Reason probably is the environmental laws on custom bikes engines are increasing which will make life difficult for custom builders. I just hope they don't say I can't drive my '93 Miata anymore which is like new (with 117,000 on the clock). Honda is smart like a Fox with the new Fury (except they should have put the VTX 1800 engine in it - ????? what's up with that ?????dumb). Criswell

On Jul 20, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Horton Oliphant wrote: > Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing > Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me > think > about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't mind the custom idea or mindset. All bikes are pretty cool to me. Custom bikes are truly an American Artform and big business. When I went to bike week this year, I was in the stands watching the 200 roadrace and a Brit sitting next to me told me he built custom panhead type Harley Choppers in England. I asked him if that was big in England and he said it is growing. He said they are really popular in Belgium. The thing that drives me crazy about Harley riders are: bandanas or tiny, useless helmets, their wives or girlfriends riding in shorts and sandals (ouch if they go down) riding in the far right lane which I consider the most dangerous, and riding in the center of the lane where all the oil is (don't ask me how I know). Doesn't anybody in that company advise new riders (and they get a lot of those) that riding off from a bar after 6 beers in matching doo rags, shorts and sandals, in the right hand lane (in the oily middle) when its raining is a bad idea? Criswell

On Jul 21, 2009, at 1:17 AM, Jeff Khoury wrote: > My guess would be that there must be some sort of licensing > agreement, etc. between the two companies, seeing that H-D is fully > lawyered-up and sues people for so much as farting at their sacred > cow of a design. > > I'm not a real big H-D fan (in case you didn't pick up on that). I > liken them to a car company that sells brand new Edsels. Ick. > Harleys are mostly for people with more money than brains who want > a big, loud, heavy, expensive ego-stroking machine. They're great > for people who want a bike that doesn't go, stop or turn. > > In my opinion, "real" bikers wear proper gear, ride more than they > drive and know what a muffler is. > > I'd better stop now or I'll go off on one of my famous rants. > > -Jeff Khoury > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horton Oliphant" > To: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:56:50 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley > > Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing > Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me > think > about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was on a Toy Run here standing in line to register. The guy behind me was a Harley rider. I asked him what his bike cost. He said with ad ons 20 grand but he had bad credit so had a high interest rate so it would probably cost him 27 grand total. I said he probably kept it locked up in the garage. No he said, he lived in a trailer and kept it in the front yard next to his tractor trailer rig. With a cover over it I said? No, he replied, he needed to get one. Sounds like excellent Country song material to me. All bike sales are really down right now. Good time to buy. Criswell

On Jul 21, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Russell Scott wrote: > Looks like the bloom is off the Harley rose. Sales are down 91%. > From the text of the article it sounds like a lot of those Harley > riders are not nearly as wealthy as you might think. More like easy > credit from Harley. And now they need a bailout for their loan losses. > > http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090716-712902.html > > R > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Khoury > To: Horton Oliphant > Cc: klr > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:17 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley > > My guess would be that there must be some sort of licensing > agreement, etc. between the two companies, seeing that H-D is fully > lawyered-up and sues people for so much as farting at their sacred > cow of a design. > > I'm not a real big H-D fan (in case you didn't pick up on that). I > liken them to a car company that sells brand new Edsels. Ick. > Harleys are mostly for people with more money than brains who want > a big, loud, heavy, expensive ego-stroking machine. They're great > for people who want a bike that doesn't go, stop or turn. > > In my opinion, "real" bikers wear proper gear, ride more than they > drive and know what a muffler is. > > I'd better stop now or I'll go off on one of my famous rants. > > -Jeff Khoury > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horton Oliphant" > To: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:56:50 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley > > Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing > Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me > think > about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 7:24 AM -0500 7/21/09, roncriswell@... wrote:

>I was on a Toy Run here standing in line to register. The guy behind >me was a Harley rider. I asked him what his bike cost. He said with >ad ons 20 grand but he had bad credit so had a high interest rate so >it would probably cost him 27 grand total. I said he probably kept >it locked up in the garage. No he said, he lived in a trailer and >kept it in the front yard next to his tractor trailer rig. With a >cover over it I said? No, he replied, he needed to get one. Sounds >like excellent Country song material to me.

These are the same types of folks who never have the money to clothe their kids, but always manage to come up with the funds for a new JetSki. Mark

Well said. Rick A17

--- On Tue, 7/21/09, Jeff Khoury wrote: From: Jeff Khoury Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley To: "Horton Oliphant" Cc: "klr" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 1:17 AM My guess would be that there must be some sort of licensing agreement, etc. between the two companies, seeing that H-D is fully lawyered-up and sues people for so much as farting at their sacred cow of a design. I'm not a real big H-D fan (in case you didn't pick up on that). I liken them to a car company that sells brand new Edsels. Ick. Harleys are mostly for people with more money than brains who want a big, loud, heavy, expensive ego-stroking machine. They're great for people who want a bike that doesn't go, stop or turn. In my opinion, "real" bikers wear proper gear, ride more than they drive and know what a muffler is. I'd better stop now or I'll go off on one of my famous rants. -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horton Oliphant" To: "klr" Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:56:50 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] nklr S and S and Harley Does anyone know if S and S has an agreement with Harley for producing Clone engines? I've always wondered and recent topics have made me think about it again. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Russell Scott" wrote:

> > Looks like the bloom is off the Harley rose. Sales are down 91%. From the text of the article it sounds like a lot of those Harley riders are not nearly as wealthy as you might think. More like easy credit from Harley. And now they need a bailout for their loan losses. > > http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090716-712902.html > > R

In as much as I love my KLR and with great amusement, dismiss those that worship their chrome gods with q-tips and cotton balls, The more bikes on the street with their lights on, makes it safer for me. How so? Mostly through more awareness by those in a cage. The more often they see a m/c headlight, the more aware that we are out there, and my quiet lil KLR benefits from that awareness. IRT to the falling sales (sic) WSJ: down 91% profits- Is this really any surprise? For the past two years, any newspaper that carries want ads, easily, 1/2+ of the motorcycles for sale are late model HD with less than 10Ksmiles (many with $25K+; incomes < $25K; $10/hr wage earner) should have been a clue that that economic formula was a tsunami waiting to happen. I am surprised it is only '91%'--with a major part of that loss as 'ad-ons', as I will illustrate below. The money now is to be made in re-'inventing' a used market--and convincing those owners that only 'genuine' HD mechanics can make their machine last longer, go further and be the loudest on their block. I witnessed this very act recently--my Kawi shop is also HD, Honda--as the owner 'sold' an upgrade jugs, carb, pipes to a 'dissatisfied' customer--as it wasn't fast enough, loud enough, to satisfy his whims. "You won't REALLY like your bike until you do these upgrades." and the dealer just helped him along! Great HD service dept, by the way.... (I wonder--did he suggest that he wouldn't like the bike during the purchase contract that he would need to add another $2K to the initial purchase....) No of course not. A proof of re-inventing the repair/upgrade market is the local mom/pop repair centers--fixing cars/trucks that many would have traded, but now are repairing. Self-analysis included--as I suspect many of you are doing the same, judging by the number of new cars on the lots around the country the past 2-5 years. Back to the motorcycle up-grades-- We see the same in the KiLleRista 650 community, with lots of product offerings of 'KLR adventure-farkle' that most riders will never fully utilize, but never-the-less, tremendously, vicariously, enjoy owning, with faint hope of fully utilizing. All of this takes us to holding our bikes longer, upgrading the pig with new farkle- or hopefully, replacing the farkle that we break. Dare I say, if you are not breaking something, you are not pushing the envelope--not that I suggest that you should be proud of breaking something, to include bones. One postal clerk-sage in MT, after hearing how I was pinned underneath the pig, "If you are not falling down, you are not riding fast enough." Hmmm. Having fallen down and broken parts and bones--I think the falling down is a tetch over-rated. Yet, I digress. Farkles. But we might, utilize those farkles--maybe. Then suddenly, some obscure voice one the web suggest, "Hey, lets fix your dohickey (only 225 miles one-way to the tech day; thanks Jeff Saline) or perhaps you are invited to ride to some distant location; (thanks Steve Rankin) and off you go--pushing envelopes of their innate rider skill while sporting 6-inch smiles underneath full face helmets while 'modeling' dust caked, sweat soaked riding clothes at the distant watering hole/restaurant. You have found yourself riding beyond the concrete canyons into a place that you can actually see how black the sky is at night--and hear a coyote yelp and have raccoons raid the spilt food near your camp site. The KLR can take many of us to some of the last, rapidly disappearing frontiers. The KLR strength: It allows us to go there on a budget that will not break the bank--without trying to impress a bunch of people that ride their chromed gods in endless circles between their garage and the 'bar' etal--if they ride at all--i.e. more/less than 1000 miles in a season. It's their money--they can ride it or park it. shrug Or put it for sale. Which many are doing.... It is also why you see some nicely farkled KLR's with less than 3Ksmiles, never dropped, never rained on, at EBay and Craig's list. Even as I write this, .8 miles North of me, there is an endless, thundering string of V-Twins, mostly HD riders plowing West on Highway 14, bringing a 2-week economic prosperity to all the little towns South Dakota enroute to Sturgis. Places like where I live are grateful for their patronage. I personally am grateful for their presence...albeit, I wish they were quieter. All that said, With those headlights blazing, it brings an additional degree of safety to all of us, because of the heightened awareness/presence of many HD riders. Sadly, the economic downturn brings fewer riders to the street, and results in less mc awareness to those who do not ride mc's = a greater endangerment to us all. revmaaatin.